[ros2nz]

"Fungible???"

[img]smilies/rotfl.gif[/img] And this from semi-world leaders.
You're right. Just what I needed after a long TIRING day. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Avatar]

Actually, fungible is a word, and you can use it in the context Rumsfeld did. I'm all for making fun of Dubya and Rummy, but before we do, we should probably make sure that we got the facts straight, otherwise we'd end up looking even sillier than Dubya. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ceilirose]

Originally posted by Avatar: <STRONG>Actually, fungible is a word, and you can use it in the context Rumsfeld did. I'm all for making fun of Dubya and Rummy, but before we do, we should probably make sure that we got the facts straight, otherwise we'd end up looking even sillier than Dubya. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]</STRONG>

Oh I doubt any of us could look sillier than Dubya even if we tried...even a try that was half-hearted.

Besides the article which I re-linked is more derogatory towards Rumsfeld because of way he's blowing off the very real problem of whether they're are enough troops to fight Bush's folly. A senior Republican Senator is now looking at the draft again along with those so-called 'cuckoo' Democrats.

Maybe not a clear Rummy-ism but a rather stupid, careless comment just the same. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Avatar]

Oh, now that I see the context which he said it in, I agree that it was a rather silly thing to say - people may be fungible as a group, but individually, their lives sure isn't. So: Shut up, Rumsfeld. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ 04-22-2004: Message edited Avatar ]

[ceilirose]

My bad too..I realized the link was dead this morning so the full impact of Rumsfeld's statement wouldn't be seen. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ 04-22-2004: Message edited ceilirose ]

[ceilirose]

Hm..end of page editing problems again..but I found this article -
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...coffin22m.html

I saw the photo a few days ago and was really surprised since these types of pictures are prohibited from being shown by the media in the U.S. The Government line is that it infringes on the privacy of the fallen soldier's family. That's fine on the surface although I think the real reason is that if American's saw more of these types of photos then a majority would start to question what is going on in Iraq and whether the sacrifice is worth it.

[StellaSlight]

On one hand, I understand that the newspaper didn't want to shock the families of the victims with the publishing of the casket pictures.
But like you said, it's only on surface. I suspect the medias in the US are once again just trying to minimize the impact of the conflict in Iraq.
That doesn't surprise me though. In Europe, the images of the war in Iraq are much more impressive, showing combat and scenes of chaos, when the news require so. They show dead and injured people, as they show mourning and angry people, and that, from both sides. When I turn on an American channel to watch the news in Iraq, I only see images of American GI's wandering around, talking to Iraqis, and sometimes some shooting images (with no casualty of course). And then back to the anchorman who announces that there were x number of dead/injured American people in the attacks.
It always seem to me that the pictures/images are totally out of sync with reality. I mean, war is ugly. It's painful and it's hard to see. It's not about some soldiers wandering around, and then shoot once or twice, like during practices. One of the scarce times I've seen the American news channel showing hard images of the war was for the atrocities comitted on the American civilians' bodies.
Hemingway had said once that "War is a bitchery". I think there was no truer words.

[girl in a cardigan]

Has anyone ever worked on a campaign as paid or volunteer? I'm looking at working for my Senate candidate in the upcoming election, but I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with this.

[migamoo]

personally i think that people should be able to see these photos. they need to see what is going on. it will give them a better perspective of what is really going on in Iraq. I know when I saw that photo I was shocked. Sure, I hear all the time of soldiers being killed, but seeing and hearing are two different things. Some people registers the words better, some the images. We really need to have both.

Ashley

[ceilirose]

Anne - American news is really sanitized..we hardly see any video or print media that shows the horrors of war from both sides. Most Americans don't know of the hundreds of people killed in Fallujah that close to 200 were women/children. Something like 2000 to 3000 injured American soldiers are back in the states recuperating from lost limbs and eyes facing countless surgeries and rehab for months.

We're spared all the realities of modern day warfare because we may not be able to 'take it' or worse yet we might actually have to start thinking about what is going on over there. So I understand the idea about privacy for the fallen soldiers and their families. However those coffins are anonymous to us..it's not like we're seeing these soldiers lying on the ground breathing their last breaths or seeing them horribly wounded and in pain. That's invasive to me..sort of like showing still pictures of Princess Diana lying unconscious after that car wreck. Now the media thought those pictures were tasteful..so go figure.

[Enigma, I.C.]

at http://www.thememoryhole.org/ they have 361 pics of returning coffins. I just become incensed when I see these pics because I think of Bush's "bring 'em on." I think he should be made to observe every casket that comes back. Maybe then he'll think twice before he makes such an awful comment.

[migamoo]

Originally posted by ceilirose: So I understand the idea about privacy for the fallen soldiers and their families. However those coffins are anonymous to us..it's not like we're seeing these soldiers lying on the ground breathing their last breaths or seeing them horribly wounded and in pain.

I agree. I don't think people should actually be subjected to photos of their sons, daughters, friends, ect dead on the ground. But if you see a flag-covered coffin, all you know is that there is a soldier in there that died in battle. Who knows who it is or how they died. People need to see these photos though. They need to know what is going on in Iraq as well in other coutries where the military is. The American public deserve to know the sacrifice their military is paying to do the 'dirty work' for Bush. And to me, that's essentially what this war is about, Bush's dirty work. He just found a legal way to go about it.

Ashley

[ros2nz]

This is something I found. His assumptions are pretty interesting, not sure if it's true or not. You guys will be able to say if it's so. [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]
By all means. I don't mind knowing.

here's the link.
Deconstructing the mind of the American voter

[ceilirose]

He's got a point roz but it's probably not all cut and dry as he says. There is a big cultural divide in this country between the red and blue states and diehard Democrats and Republicans but there's a group in between (Independents) who will swing both ways with their votes. They don't quite fit into either group but would vote for who they felt was the best candidate.

But yeah..certain social values tend to go along with Republican voters (not all of course) and vice versa with the Democrats. Just like there are some Republicans who would never vote for a Democrat and Democrats who would never, ever vote Republican. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

With Bush's support..some Americans feel obliged to support the President no matter what. It's bad form to criticize him and his policies during tough times. Again I don't believe that because part of a democracy is the right to be critical of your government without being penalized for it. So, LOL..I don't know if I answered the question but yes he does have some good points.

[ceilirose]

There really is no public outrage about these Iraqi prisoner pictures..if there is it's a very subdued reaction.

The worst thing about them is the idiotic grins these soldiers have on their faces...like they're at some sort of a party just having a good time. Interesting that the conservative commentators in the US media are downplaying this whole thing. The hypocrite Rush Limbaugh said something like he's seen worse in a Britney Spears video.