[In Fair Verona]

Originally posted by Cress Yeah, it's frustrating. I'm in Texas, and I know there are pockets of us liberals in Texas, near the major cities, but I know that the state as a whole will go Republican in the electoral college. Why hasn't anybody changed this process by now? Why can't they divide it up percentage wise, so that, if 25% of the state voted Democrat, then 25% of our electoral college votes would go Democrat?

I'm one of those rare Texan liberals as well, and I find it so difficult to live here when it comes to politics - and I'm not even old enough to vote yet. Not only do the opinions of the liberals out there not get properly represented (or represented at all), but now it's not just the electoral college that goes with the obvious majority, but most of the people who live here. Most people seem to think being in Texas means you must be Republican.

Btw, I'm in North Texas.

[Jerry D]

I'm also a rare Texas liberal, but I wasn't from here originally. I was originally from New York and New Jersey. I live in the Houston area.

[StellaSlight]

Originally posted by Uh Blah My conclusion after the whole 2000 debacle is that the electoral college must go. The idea that the President of the United States can be elected by a minority of the popular vote is a joke.

I totally agree with that statement.
I've already argued earlier in this board, that the American presidential system has to be changed, and that the electoral college must go.
The system, as it is right now, is two-centuries old, and was settled at a time when intellectual leaders of the country did not trust the population's vote. But nowadays, people get education, they get informations, why shouldn't the vote be direct?
I've alread stated that the last presidential election was a severe breach in term of checks and balances of powers : how can the Supreme Court, which is the justicial branch, decide on the choice of the president, which is the executive power?

[Uh Blah]

Originally posted by StellaSlight The system, as it is right now, is two-centuries old, and was settled at a time when intellectual leaders of the country did not trust the population's vote. But nowadays, people get education, they get informations, why shouldn't the vote be direct?

What's even sadder is that this same government goes around telling others how to run their's. Don't get me wrong. I love my country, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.

[ceilirose]

If I remember my history correctly there was no way two hundred years ago that individual votes could be counted in any sort of accurate way either. Some would say that with the controversy regarding the Diebold voting machines that we still have that problem..but in theory we do have the technology to count each vote.

I've heard that some Republicans are counting on the Electoral College giving Bush the Presidency again this year. It's frightening but the country is so divided that I could see it happening again and it wouldn't surprise me.

I agree with what some have been saying..I live in a safe Democratic state so my vote isn't really going to sway the election one way or another either. It's frustrating to think that a few states with their electorate will decide the Presidency.

[wanderer78]

Oh geez. I almost forgot about our good old EC. I think I've repressed the memories of the 2000 election. Uh Blah, welcome and I'm sort of in the same position as you. My first election was the Gore/Bush one. I spent all night watching the news too. It was ridiculous.

And I'm wondering. How many younger voters were discouraged by what happened and didn't vote again? I know that's what happened to me. I loathe to admit it, but it's true.

BTW, I'm happy with Edwards as the running mate too. I think he'll get a lot of the swing votes that Kerry might be alienating (for whatever reason).

[StellaSlight]

Originally posted by ceilirose It's frightening but the country is so divided that I could see it happening again and it wouldn't surprise me.

Ceilirose, I love your country, but I'm kinda frightened by what's happening in there too. That people aren't able to speak freely without being labeled anti-american is bad enough, but now they're firing people for that (like Whoopi) and they created a Republican Ketchup to eat with the Freedom fries.

[summerbug]

Hee hee - I forgot all about the "w" ketchup They had to do do it because of Teresa HEINZ Kerry. How ridiculous is that? It's almost like they go out of their way to make us look childish

[ceilirose]

heh...here is the link - www.wketchup.com

This has to be the silliest thing I've ever seen or heard of..the Republicans were fine with the Heinz wealth when Senator Heinz was alive and now it's somehow tainted.

Anne..I know I worry about the state of this country. I just hope there is a change in November and that the Congress and Senate gain more Democrats so that real change can start.

Has anyone heard about the alleged sodomy of children at Abu Ghraib? Supposedly The New Yorker has the story and this time there's supposed to be video available. Oh I know..Martha Stewart's sentence and Whoopi's jokes are much more important. The US is still losing soldiers there (20 or more this month) but it's no longer news.

On a good note..we're almost at a new thread.

This one took us about 4 months to get through..the last one took us almost a year!

[migamoo]

You know, I've never heard of WKetchup before now, and that has got to be one of the stupidest, but funniest, things I have ever seen.

[In Fair Verona]

Originally posted by summerbug Hee hee - I forgot all about the "w" ketchup They had to do do it because of Teresa HEINZ Kerry. How ridiculous is that? It's almost like they go out of their way to make us look childish

You mean to make themselves look even more childish? It's like freedom fries all over again. -_- Counter ketchup, counter fries... it's like the parties are two little kids bickering, "No, YOU suck." "No, YOU suck."

[Uh Blah]

Originally posted by ceilirose Has anyone heard about the alleged sodomy of children at Abu Ghraib? Supposedly The New Yorker has the story and this time there's supposed to be video available. Oh I know..Martha Stewart's sentence and Whoopi's jokes are much more important. The US is still losing soldiers there (20 or more this month) but it's no longer news.

Great point. Conservatives want us to believe the media as a whole has a liberal bias. Yet Michael Moore says this very same media failed to question the administration about their intentions for war & about the WMD & Osama-Saddam connection. Both sides may have a biased view of their own, but let's lay out the facts. There is photographic evidence of the mistreatment at Abu Ghraib. However there has yet to be any evidence of WMD or a connection between Osama & Saddam. All this adds up to an end to the Bush administration. I'd love to hear someone debate these facts. It's kind of boring when we all agree.

[ros2nz]

You know, it makes me sick that the entire fiasco is now wholly the CIA's fault. Bush and Co, Blair included, started the war. They should be held accountable for at least some parts of it. The war was a farce, and on top of it, Abu Ghraib is a pretty big problem. When will Bush acknowledge that he did something wrong?
No, it's all about how he was mislead, how he was wronged, so on and so forth. No admission of faults.

Oh no, the buck stops just a few men short of him.

ETA - what's this about the 'w' ketchup?

[UnsilentMajorty]

RE: W-Ketchup...

It's just desperation on the Extremists part at this point. It really is.

Contrary to what Bush believes... A lot of the country -- even moderate Conservatives -- Are finally coming around to the fact that the war in Iraq was nothing more than a power-grap attempt and not about WMD like the administration claimed.

At this point, a lot of their attack ads (against Kerry and Edwards) are just like rabid dogs trying to start a fight with other rabid dogs... Except there ARE no dogs to fight

People are finally starting not to be afraid anymore and speaking their mind(s).

I hope that if Kerry is elected he repeals the Patriot Act and scatters it to the four winds.

That thing ressembles Nazi Germany is so many ways it is not even funny (I suggest you all read it if you havent; truly scary stuff considering it gives the Govt. blanket powers to use any and all means necessary (some illegal) to investigate and prosecute so-called "terrorists"... Or, as in this case, anyone who doesn't agree with the Extreme Right's POV.

Originally posted by ros2nz You know, it makes me sick that the entire fiasco is now wholly the CIA's fault. Bush and Co, Blair included, started the war. They should be held accountable for at least some parts of it. The war was a farce, and on top of it, Abu Ghraib is a pretty big problem. When will Bush acknowledge that he did something wrong? No, it's all about how he was mislead, how he was wronged, so on and so forth. No admission of faults. Oh no, the buck stops just a few men short of him.

That's typical of ANY one in power, though, unfortunately.

You're never going to get true accountability in the sense you (and possibly everyone else) are looking for.

Look at Martha Stewart as an example. She lies, cheats and steals (and is generally not a nice person from what I understand) and she gets what amounts to a slap on the wrist; five months???

Look at Kenneth Lay, CEO of Enron.

He and his corporation destroyed this country -- indirectly by false reporting -- Let alone the lives of the employees who worked for Enron...

And while he is now going on trial... I seriously doubt he'll do any time as well, OR he'll be sent to a country-club type prison where they serve lates at noon and each prisoner has cable TV in their cell

[ceilirose]

I started a new thread -

Liberal/Democrat/Leftist/Green Thread: Countdown to November 2004

Note to Mods - Please close this thread when you get a chance. Thanks!