TheAngel

Hey everyone. I was just over at the Spanish Version of the US Anthem thread and saw that the debate had turned to immigration and I thought I'd open a new thread. This is for all immigration issues, not just those between Mexico and the US, which seem to be what is most relevant in the US because of recent legislation and actions taken, or not take, towards immigration problems. But there have been other points made, about how difficult immigration is in other countries, about how to solve the problem, all kinds of things, so to filter out some of the stuff in the other thread, how about this?
If there's already an immigration thread and I missed it then I truly apologize but I didn't see one.

TheAngel

That's why I think the work permits and the threat of capture and deportation will use the fear of the worker (deportation), their desire for a better life (work visas) and will cause them to stop trying to cross the border as often.
The work visas would also allow them to have better living conditions, since the people petitioning for visas would have to be approved and would under go quality of life inspections and the like.

Ms. Fiction

Yay, they are being scared. They should be, they are breaking out laws. They should go back to their own country and find a way to come back legally, if they really want to be in the US that much.

*Ledi*

I actually came here to make a thread like this because of what I'm going through right now. I'm a Permanent Resident of Canada (and I'll be getting my citizenship in 2 years) but I'm only an Albanian citizen as of now.

Well, I'm going to Europe this summer and since I'm going to England for only 5 days before I go to Albania (I have relatives in London), I need a visa. My boyfriend who is a Canadian citizen, doesn't. While I realize why certain citizens need visas and others don't, it really hurts. I just hate the double standards. Sure, I may be an Albanian citizen but I haven't been living in Albania for the past 5 years and I'm almost as much of a Canadian as my boyfriend is, who by the way has been living in the states for most of his life. I just don't understand - why do they make it so difficult for certain people? As an Albanian, I can honestly say that I've been often, if not always, treated so much different than someone who is born in a first world country. I understand why this happens (because a lot of Albanians immigrate), but it honestly is so horrible when you're going through it. You always wonder, "What is so much better about people from other countries?" and that is sad because absolutely nothing is. So why aren't we all treated the same way? Why the inequality? Why aren't we all given the same chance? We all need to have a chance at a better life.

It just really, really hurts and it makes me angry. I hate this. And I honestly don't blame some people who try to immigrate illegaly. Some governments make it impossible to immigrate legally if you're from a certain country. So unless they change their attitudes and laws concerning people of different nationalities, they will always face the problem called "Illegal Immigration." That's coming from someone who has had to deal with all the double standards since forever, so make what you will of my opinion.

Don't believe for a second that these people don't want to be there legally. Who would ever want to live somewhere illegally? No one, for it's absolutely horrible. So if they were given the chance to go there legally, they would in a heartbeat, I'm sure. But read my post; it's not that easy to immigrate legally if you're from certain countries.

Ms. Fiction

*Ledi*, I never said illegal immigrants don’t want to be here legally, I’m sure they do, which is why most of them are jumping on the “give us amnesty” programs. I am well aware it’s not easy to become a legal citizen, but there are reasons, one of the main reasons the US doesn’t want illegal immigrants from Mexico is because they are importing poverty, America doesn’t want anymore poverty than it already has, it might sound harsh but that is the way it is. Arguably not everyone trying to become a US citizen is in poverty and usually it is slightly less hard for them to get their citizenship then it would be for someone who is poor, but yes it still is hard. Difficulties in becoming a legal citizen doesn’t have to do with whether or not a people from one country are better than the other, it has to do with not being able to accept every single person who wants to be a citizen. Just because loads of people from other countries want to be citizens does not mean that a county should be over populated to make them happy.

*Ledi*

That's absolutely not true. It has quite a lot to do with your nationality, more so than you would like to believe. Maybe Canada is the same as the states, maybe not, but I don't ever remember being "poor" when I came here 5 years ago, and yet, I still faced a lot of problems, way more problems than people I knew did (they weren't Albanian).

And if that's really true, about not wanting "poor" people, then I find it disgusting. So only the people who are already well off should be given a chance to live in the states or anywhere else? That's just ridiculous. Besides, even if someone was poor when they first immigrate, it doesn't mean that they always will be. Have you ever thought that maybe that's why they want to go to a better place? To earn money? If they are able to become a legal citizen, they will find jobs so much easier and that would help them get out of that poverty. But maybe these rich countries do like treating certain people as second class citizens only because of their nationality. They benefit from it.

God, I find this so unfair and disgusting. It reminds me of World War II, when the Jews were sent back to Europe only because they were on the "black list" and no country wanted them. I guess countries who like to brag about "equality," don't really learn from the past.

Ms. Fiction

I already said that not all the people trying to get citizenship are poor, I said it was also hard for them to get citizenship, but the reason it's hard for them to get citizenship is because everyone and their uncle Charlie is trying to become a citizen.

The people who are already well off are not the only people who get a chance to live in the US, it’s just easier for them. Of course I’ve thought that the reason people want to come to the US is so they can get better jobs, I’m not completely oblivious to why people come here illegally. You want to call it treating them like second class citizens, go right ahead, but in the long run, having someone who works extra hard to raise the money towards US citizenship just proves they want it bad enough.

Great, let’s bring the Jews into this debate. During WW2 the US accepted Jews, we couldn’t have accepted every single one or we would have been over populated. Overpopulation might not seem like a big thing to you but it would have seriously affected our economy, it may not be the best reason but it was one of them. Oh, and then there is the whole thing about the US helping defeat the Nazi’s but who cares about that. You want to start calling us some names? I hear there are actually people who like to call us Nazi’s.

*Ledi*

So someone needs to be tested to see whether they want it bad enough or not?


I have no idea what you're talking about. But I don't think it has anything to do with what I said.

elisheva

Ledi, I hope you get that visa. Good luck on becoming a citizen.. you have to live here for a while before you can get it, right? I think I got my Canadian citizenship late in elementary school.

Um. "Yay, they are being scared"?? How compassionate. America's ideal is supposed to be the land of opportunity, the land that welcomes everyone. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

See, that's beautiful. And it's what America is supposed to stand for.* Not only accepting university graduates or people who are already doing decently. "Your tired, your poor" - not "your well-off, who won't spoil our demographics and import poverty."

Yes, illegal immigration is not the greatest thing. Immigrating legally would be better for everyone. But either not everyone has that option, or they are too scared, desperate and miserable to realize that they do have the option. So they give away their life savings and risk their lives to come to the States. And I think they deserve more compassionate treatment. They're people too, and have the right to be treated as people.

(*I realize that I haven't lived in the States for much of my life, although I am a citizen, so you could say that I don't have the right to say what America stands for. In that case, here's my compromise in advance: what America stands for to me.)

*Ledi*

I agree with what you said.

And thank you. I've been here for 5 years already, but I'll get my citizenship only in 2 years. It doesn't really matter much because I'm already a Permanent Resident, but I'm still looking forward to it anyway. I just wish that they wouldn't have these double standards because they're horrible.

Tiffers

Hi,

I definitely don't think there should be amesty for illegal immigration. You are breaking the law when you come to a country illegally. I don't think it's possible to deport of the 12+ illegal immigrants in the U.S but I do think there needs to be penalities. I am not in favor of any "amesty" bill. By doing that you are only increasing the number of people coming illegally by telling those people it is okay to do this and that we have no care for our borders.

The U.S like any other countries has laws, laws that should be abided by.

Illegal immigration increases the already large burdeon on our government, state, and social services as well as our very increasing health care crisis. I don't like knowing that my tax dollars are paying for people that aren't even legal residents or citizens access to free health care, food stamps, WIC and knowing there are legal residents and citizens of the U.S who can't even get it themselves because it is out of their financial reach. It is wrong. Those services are for legal residents and citizens only...or they should be. I realize that illegal immigrants do pay into the system and pay taxes (unless you are working under the table), but I have to wonder for as much as they are paying into the system, how much is being taken out?

I realize compared to other countries it looks like the U.S is "rich" but if you keep up with the news you know about our huge deficit...we are in fact not rich any stretch of the imagination.

Ms Carolyn

Excuse me, but the U.S. was certainly large enough to absorb the entire Jewish population of Europe prior to WWII without undue hardship, especially as there was a fairly prosperous Jewish community here that would have been happy to receive them. The U.S. didn't want them for the same shameful reason that much of the rest of the world didn't want them -- anti-semitism.

sum1

*Ledi*

Thank you.

elisheva

*quote edited out at mod's request*

EXCUSE ME?

Oh my god.