Milt Palacio

Is this how our governments supports the troops?

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...7-121848-6449r

Lexis

I keep thinking I'm gonna wake up and all this crap will be a bad dream.

I'm not blaming only Bush as this has been a problem for a while. But if he truly wants to be seen as man who supports the armed service he needs to get these 300,000 people off the streets and shelters into homes of their own.

God, they risk their lives for their country, go through such awful traumas and we can't even get off our asses to make sure they have a roof over their head.

JW77

Yup, that's a pretty sorry way to treat our troops if you ask me. Sad sad stuff.

Anyway, I worked with this guy that served in Afghanistan and he had similar problems. And yup, he took the standard mental evaluation that they give everyone, but I don't think it was enough.

I mean, I just don't think he was able to adjust all that well. So he ended up losing his job about a month or so after he got back. Don't know what he's doing now.

Lexis

Man...I read this and then read about Rumsefeld's visit to the troops. One of the soldiers asked him why soldiers had to dig through landfills to get scrap armour and ballistic glass to protect their vechiles. Good old Rummy fudged the answer and said "You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up."

Yeah, thats real reassuring for the men and women who are about to head into Iraq.

Are there any voluntary programmes in the US that helps veterens? I've never heard about anything similar here but I guess our government's do their best to hide it.

Butterflyz

That's horrible.

UnsilentMajorty

Rumsfeld is a discrace to the United States Military as the Secretary of Defense.

He'll send you to war and expect you to win... But then won't give you the right equipment to get the job done and come home safe...

And even if you do come home "safe", chances are you are going to be seriously *****ed in the head and not be able to hold down one of the many "millions" of jobs this administration is so vigorously creating anyway.

Am I bitter?

Yes.

Because this administration is raping and killing this country's number one resource: It's people, by this four pronged attack.

1) Don't educate them which...

2) Force them into the Military and then...

3) Send them off to a war that only benefits them without the right equipment, so...

4) If the soldiers do come back they are so screwed up mentally and have no good jobs to hold down anyway that eventually, they become homeless, or the ultimate "cost effective" means of saving a buck... they kill themselves.

There it is, folks.

The worst example of leadership ever perpetrated on the American people, or a people of any nation in any time. They are destroying lives by the thousands and they don't care.

Just as long as it isn't their kids, their friends, or themselves going they don't care.

It's evil. Plain and simple.

AuburnGrad

Unfortunately, American vets have been mistreated for years. A visit to most veterans' hospitals will turn your stomach.

WalkingOnSunshine

I can understand troops' frustration about the lack of equipment and supplies. And I hope that is corrected soon for the safety of everyone involved.

But what I don't understand or simply don't get is when you say that the government is forcing people into the military?

Personally, I do not believe this is the worst leadership. I believe that they do care and are trying their best to make the world safer.

The only option is to stay the course in Iraq. I supported the war then and I support it now. And, I pray for the troops over there everyday. I have faith in them and the best thing we can do is help them to re-adjust the best way they can when they return home so this does not happen to them.

Lexis

For those who are poor, the military can often be the only way to either get an education or support their families. And with unemployment high in some area, they have ever more motivation.

Its unfair. I know that F 9/11 isn't exactly great viewing for Republicans but watching those recruiters specifically target the mall where working class kids hung out rather than the middle class mall where rich kids hung out was very disturbing.

I think its bad enough that we make our soldiers go through such horror for us. But when we do it for flawed reasons, its even worse. I don't think Bush and co. are the worst leadership ever but I think they are heading down that road.

TokyoNiGHTS

There's no actual forcing unless it's the draft. But as Lexis put it, the military offers an easy way to get an education and money for certain kids that might not be able to get a job or don't have the money to go to college.

What makes this leadership so bad is that there are troops over there that aren't properly equipped. The reason for this is because we were never prepared for such an assault on a country. Early on it was obvious that the adminstration really thought this was going to be a walk in the park. Go in, get Saddam, prove there are WMD's and everyone is happy. This is why there is that motto that goes "Only go to war as a last resort" because they aren't easy. And for our adminstration to even try to convince people that this war would be is careless.

I support our troops completely. But this war was a mistake when it started and it continues to be one. The troops are simply doing their jobs so I don't think anyone has anything against them for what they're doing.

No1important

and Bush says america is the greatest country in the world? right. Just wait there will be a draft. Other boards seem to think Iran is next on Bush's list of illegal invasions.

ceilirose

When Rumsfeld was asked about the soldiers having to provide their own armor for the humvees by looking for their own scrap metal he answered:

"You go to war with the Army you have," not the one you might want, and that any rate the Army was pushing manufacturers of vehicle armor to produce it as fast as humanly possible."

However this was a war of choice. I remember Bush & Co. all going on and on about how they would start this war when they wanted to. I've gone past the point where I think that Bush, Rumsfeld etc. will ever take responsiblity for the poor post war planning. It's never going to happen..now they may blame others but no one takes responsiblity at the Executive level of this government.

Hopefully the government can be pro-active on the homeless from the Iraqi War and not drop the ball like they did with the Vietnam Viets.

I don't think this is soliciting but if any of you want to help the veterans recuperating at Walter Reed Army Hospital then go to

here

They really need phone cards to call home because the government isn't picking up long distance charges.

UnsilentMajorty

I just feel, like a lot of people, that this war did not have to happen -- And I do not mean the "War on Terror"; I mean Iraq -- And that it is shameful how this (and previous) administrations treat their veterans when these are the very people whom would not think twice about giving their lives for thier country at a moments notice because they love it and its people so much.

All I want is for our country to love them as much as the vets love it.

Also...

It's easy for all of us (either pro, or against) to say what we think about a war until it's our time to go.

I have a feeling -- and I don't mean to make a generalization, but I feel I think it is accurate to a certain extent -- That a lot of young people will not be so gung-ho about this when the draft is re-instated and they realize this isn't some abstract, foreign concept that they've only read about in textbooks (Vietnam; WWII) and that it literally will be the thing that determines the rest of their lives... Or ends it... And I'm not trying to be overly melodramatic about it either.

For those of you who have friends on the front lines...

You aren't going to be getting what they are going through. You won't. You're going to be getting a very skewed view of what is going on over there even if they won't admit it themselves.

Why?

Because the military monitors what they say -- in e-mails; chat rooms; letters home; etc. -- And the fact that a lot of people CAN'T, or DON'T want to talk about some of the horrors they've witnessed because once they start thinking about them...

It can adversely affect their combat effectiveness and at this point... Most soldiers themselves know we aren't there for the right reasons and are just fighting to keep themself and their friends alive so they can come home.

This is why I hate it when people say they are fighting for "our freedom". If they were hunting Osama Bin Laden, or if Iraq had launched an attack on the U.S. then I would say they were/are fighting for our freedom.

As of right now... They are fighting to stay alive so they can come home to what they hope is the same country they left one, two years ago for some...

And that is why I said this is one of the worst leaderships I've ever experienced because we have so many problems here, on our own soil, that this president refuses to fix and is in fact, creating more possibly (Same-Sex Marriage Ban; overturning Roe v. Wade).

I will not apologize for when I said what is going on is evil.

The definition of evil is the absence of empathy. That fits the Bush Administration to a tee.

WalkingOnSunshine

There will not be a draft and I seriously doubt an Iran invasion is next. Besides, the military is not going to go back to a draft. You don't want people on your side when you have to force them to be there. And that is what a draft does. And yes the military currently does offer opportunities to those that might not be able to afford college or work. But it is still their choice to sign up for those opportunities.

A war of choice? The last time I checked choosing to defend your country and its people was not a choice but a necessity.


Personally, I believe anytime our military is in combat action they are fighting for our freedom. Taking out Saddam has enabled the world to become safer.

Quote:

The definition of evil is the absence of empathy. That fits the Bush Administration to a tee.

I thought it was empathetic to reach out to those being mistreated by a terrorist group and an evil regime. Removing the Taliban and Saddam have helped give millions the freedom they were denied. I believe that is anything but evil.

The newest information about those questions asked to Rumsfeld yesterday:

UnsilentMajorty

Don't take this the wrong way...

But I really think you are dellusional and or in denial. I really do.

There is evidence that Iran is going to be next because Rumsfeld even did a press confrence about it a few weeks ago where they asked him about Iran and he said there was "a high probability they had WMDs and that was unacceptable" and when asked about what they (we) are going to do about it, he said, "Whe the time comes, you'll know" (paraphrasing; I'll try and dig up the article).

And since you don't think sanctions or the UN doesn't work... What other option does that leave us?

Also...

You and others never seem to admit the fact that Bush is in fact raping and destroying this country with the policies he proposes -- and has passed in the last four years -- That only benefit a certain segment of the population, namely, rich White people and billion dollar corporations.

Maybe you don't see it because may be you are part of that demographic?

This isn't an attack. I'm speaking in practical terms in that may be you just don't see what is going on because you are in college and everyone else around you is in college, so that is all you can see?

And also... Did you honestly care about the freedom of Iraqis and other people pre-9/11?

Truthfully?

Most people in this country couldn't find the Iraq, or Afghanistan on a map before 9/11... But then they jump on the "let's spread freedom and democracy" bandwagon after we're attacked.

We shouldn't be spreading feedom and democracy the way this administration has done. We should be and should have been spreading it -- and thereby causing the root of terrorism to decline -- By bettering how we do business abroad and treating foriegn nations and their indigenous people and their cultures with a lot more respect than we have been because that is the real root of terrorism and allows Osama Bin Laden and his ilk to recruit terrorists.

I just fail to see how someone like you (and others) now think the world is a safer place without Saddam considering what has replaced him is far more widespread and far more deadly... But hey, if it makes it easier for you to sleep at night...

Besides. You hate French people, so what difference does it make to you how we are viewed to the rest of the world? Just as long as America has the right to protect itself that is all that matters to you, right?

One last thing:

When there is a draft and I am pretty sure they are going to call women this time (even if not in front line combat roles)...

I want you to keep telling yourself that it's worth spreading all this "freedom and democracy" as you look into a dying 18 year olds eyes... One who is hemoraging and gasping from a sucking chest wound and is missing his left leg and is baddly burned... And hold his hand as he squeezes his last ounce of strength and breathes his last breath in your face.

If it takes this kind of experience to change you and everyone else position on the war... Any war... So be it. I do not wish it upon you...

But then again, as they say, there are some things in life that no one can teach you and you just have to learn them for yourself.