News & Politics - Hamas Leader killed - Page 2

ros2nz · 03-23-2004, 02:34 AM

Head Hunter - WORD!

Quote:

And too think, I was hoping that peace could come to isreal. Man

With that sort of actions, there's no chance for peace in either Israel or Palestine.

SuperDeluxe · 03-23-2004, 08:28 AM

The US has supported Isreal Militarily for years. So in a sense we are enabling.

Not that I disagree per se, just that we have to acknowledge that we have been in the past.

[ 03-23-2004: Message edited SuperDeluxe ]

elisheva · 03-23-2004, 02:13 PM

I'm not saying that the US doesn't support Israel. I'm arguing against the idea that the US had a role in this specific operation.

Capitalism kills? More so than, say, Communism under Stalin? Uh.

JohannafromIHJ · 03-23-2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elisheva:
Capitalism kills? More so than, say, Communism under Stalin? Uh.

I don't see why that's relevant. If Capitalism doesn't kill, one should be able to prove or defend it without bringing the errors of Communism into it.

elisheva · 03-23-2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohannafromIHJ:
 I don't see why that's relevant. If Capitalism doesn't kill, one should be able to prove or defend it without bringing the errors of Communism into it.

And I don't really see why the issue of capitalism was brought up in connection to killing Yassin, but whatever [img]smilies/look.gif[/img]
I actually posted that, because I feel like there tends to be a bit of a "Let's all jump on the Eeeeevils of Kapitalism!" trend, and more of an idealized view of other economic systems. I've seen that with some students in my class. I don't want to debate the 2 systems, I just wanted to point out that other systems aren't exactly pure & wonderful.

(Am I making sense? I'm all clogged up from a cold so if my neurons are misfiring, tell me. [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] )

sum1 · 03-23-2004, 02:33 PM

http://www.honestreporting.com/a/yassin.htm
[quote]

StellaSlight · 03-24-2004, 06:51 AM

sum1 I'm very wary of HonestReporting.com, since it is obviously very pro-Israel. They're supposed to fight against biased medias but their bottom line is :

Quote:

Join HonestReporting.com and help Israel win the media war.

I'm quite shocked at the way they used a rocket to kill him. 7 innocent people were killed and 15 were wounded, while they were leaving a mosque. Couldn't they kill him another way, like shooting him? Man, the guy was in a wheelchair, it's not like he could hide quickly!

AlexEvans · 03-24-2004, 09:01 AM

Yassin was a strategist. He ordered terror attacks. Nor is being a 'spiritual' inspirer of terror a good thing.

Killing him made the world a better place.

As an American I would gladly accept 'blame' for enabling Israel to kill him, but that would be taking credit for something Israel did.

It's long past time Palestinians blamed their leaders and their allies in the Arab world for encouraging their children to throw stones at soldiers, for encouraging their children to blow themselves up, for waging a hopeless war whose ambition is genocide.

Of course, if they do blame the people truly responsible for their plight, Arafat kills them.

elisheva · 03-24-2004, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by StellaSlight:
sum1 I'm very wary of HonestReporting.com, since it is obviously very pro-Israel. They're supposed to fight against biased medias but their bottom line is :

I'm quite shocked at the way they used a rocket to kill him. 7 innocent people were killed and 15 were wounded, while they were leaving a mosque. Couldn't they kill him another way, like shooting him? Man, the guy was in a wheelchair, it's not like he could hide quickly!

Is there something in that report from HR that you can say is false?
Yes, they're pro-Israel. They say they are, so it's not like they're misleading anyone. They're dedicated to watching out for biased reporting against Israel, which is all too common. Personally, I think they're fantastic.

Weren't those "7 innocent people" part of Yassin's entourage? How are they innocent, then? The bodyguards of an arch-terrorist...not exactly pure of heart. [img]smilies/look.gif[/img]

And, here comes the "old man in a wheelchair". [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] You know what - his being in a wheelchair didn't stop him from murdering hundreds of Israelis.

This might cause more attempted attacks in the short term, but in the long run, it will be only for the better.

So Hamas people said, "The gates of Hell have opened"? Yup - and they've got wheelchair access [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

ros2nz · 03-24-2004, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Of course, if they do blame the people truly responsible for their plight, Arafat kills them.

And all they have to do is stay in their homes or throw a few stones at the Israeli tanks. That kills them too. Or are those terrorist activities too?

I've no problem with a Hamas leader or an Israeli soldier killed. I've got a lot of problem with the increasing casualties (usually innocent passer-bys) on both sides.

StellaSlight · 03-24-2004, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elisheva:


Is there something in that report from HR that you can say is false?
Yes, they're pro-Israel. They say they are, so it's not like they're misleading anyone. They're dedicated to watching out for biased reporting against Israel, which is all too common. Personally, I think they're fantastic.

Weren't those "7 innocent people" part of Yassin's entourage? How are they innocent, then? The bodyguards of an arch-terrorist...not exactly pure of heart. [img]smilies/look.gif[/img]

And, here comes the "old man in a wheelchair". [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] You know what - his being in a wheelchair didn't stop him from murdering hundreds of Israelis.

This might cause more attempted attacks in the short term, but in the long run, it will be only for the better.

So Hamas people said, "The gates of Hell have opened"? Yup - and they've got wheelchair access [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Elisheva, I didn't say that what they're saying is false, but they're biased media too, just like the medias they're fighting against. They're saying the truth, but from their point of view (you know that truth is a multiple-edged sword, don't you?).

While I thought that the article posted by sum1 is quite accurate actually, there were others stuffs that I read in the past that were obviously biased and would be considered opinions, not facts by pro-palestinians. They always correct things that are biased against Israel but 'forget' to correct things that are biased against Palestine (and I've read some good one).
BTW, I'm neither pro-Israel, nor pro-Palestine, to clarify everything.

And I didn't bring the good ol' myth of the 'Man in the wheelchair'. I'm one who think that Yassin was a dangerous man and certainly didn't think he was impotent. I just stated that since he's in a wheelchair, maybe they could have killed him another way. The guy can't move. That's why the 'wheelchair' thing was brought up.

Among the 7 people that were killed too, 2 were his bodyguards, and the 5 others, mere people who came over there to pray. Do we know for sure that they were innocents? No. Just like we don't know if they were members of the Hamas either. They were near him when they died, so that makes them Hamas members too?
Shoot, unlucky men if that wasn't the case, they were in the wrong place, in the wrong moment. Looks like it's okay to have lots of collateral damages and just labeled them 'terrorists' too when we know nothing of them.

Papri · 03-25-2004, 04:37 PM

From the article:

Quote:

"This had nothing to do with security, nothing to do with protecting Israeli citizens. It's all about politics and public opinion," said lawmaker Yossi Sarid of the dovish Yahad Party.

Yassin's killing virtually buried hopes of reviving the road map, which envisioned an end to violence and the creation of a Palestinian state by next year.

"Such actions are not only contrary to international law, but they do not do anything to help the search for a peaceful solution," Annan said of the assassination.

European and Arab leaders condemned the killing. Egypt canceled a trip by legislators and other dignitaries to Israel to mark the 25th anniversary of the peace treaty between the two countries.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said the assassination "is unacceptable, it is unjustified and it is very unlikely to achieve its objectives."

I think that pretty much sums it up.

Jess519 · 03-25-2004, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by StellaSlight:
And I didn't bring the good ol' myth of the 'Man in the wheelchair'. I'm one who think that Yassin was a dangerous man and certainly didn't think he was impotent. I just stated that since he's in a wheelchair, maybe they could have killed him another way. The guy can't move. That's why the 'wheelchair' thing was brought up.

Anne, thanks for mentioning this.

The wheelchair thing was what I sort of had an issue with when I first heard this story. The fact that the man is not terribly mobile leads me to believe there must have been a simpler, less full of risk why they could have accomplished this.

Hell, if they knew where the guy was in order to kill him, why didn't they just arrest him? Not like he could have run away.

[ 03-25-2004: Message edited Jess519 ]

AlexEvans · 03-26-2004, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ros2nz:


And all they have to do is stay in their homes or throw a few stones at the Israeli tanks. That kills them too. Or are those terrorist activities too?

I've no problem with a Hamas leader or an Israeli soldier killed. I've got a lot of problem with the increasing casualties (usually innocent passer-bys) on both sides.

I find your contentment with the murder of soldiers defending their nation and their people truly horrifying, as is your equivocation of the soldiers of a democratic nation - soldiers who take truly enormous efforts and risks to minimize civilian casualties - with terrorists who aim at genocide and deliberately maximize civilian casualties, including among the people they claim to be fighting for.

Nor do I agree that throwing stones at people is an innocent past-time. It is, in fact, attempted murder (except when it actually kills someone).

[img]smilies/abduct.gif[/img] [img]smilies/read.gif[/img]

elisheva · 03-26-2004, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Abducted Bookworm:


I find your contentment with the murder of soldiers defending their nation and their people truly horrifying, as is your equivocation of the soldiers of a democratic nation - soldiers who take truly enormous efforts and risks to minimize civilian casualties - with terrorists who aim at genocide and deliberately maximize civilian casualties, including among the people they claim to be fighting for.

Nor do I agree that throwing stones at people is an innocent past-time. It is, in fact, attempted murder (except when it actually kills someone).

[img]smilies/abduct.gif[/img] [img]smilies/read.gif[/img]

[img]smilies/clap.gif[/img] [img]smilies/clap.gif[/img]