News & Politics - Germany moves to ban Scientology

elisheva · 12-10-2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Germany moves to ban Scientology

BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- Germany's top security officials said Friday they consider the goals of the Church of Scientology to be in conflict with the principles of the nation's constitution and will seek to ban the organization.

The interior ministers of the nation's 16 states plan to give the nation's domestic intelligence agency the task of preparing the necessary information to ban the organization, which has been under observation for a decade on allegations that it "threatens the peaceful democratic order" of the country.

The Church of Scientology, in a response sent to CNN, denounced the German proposal, calling it out of step with various international court rulings. Read the Church of Scientology response

The ministers, as well as federal Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, "consider Scientology to be an organization that is not compatible with the constitution," said Berlin Interior Minister Ehrhart Koerting, who presided over the officials' two-day conference.

Sabine Weber, president of the Church of Scientology in Berlin, said she views the renewed attempt to ban the organization as a reaction to increasing acceptance of Scientologists in several European countries.

"It is very, very clear that the true picture of what Scientology is about is pushing its way through," Weber said. "The interior ministers are clearly reacting to that."

The Scientologists have long battled to end the surveillance, saying it is an abuse of their right to freedom of religion. They point to several lower court rulings in favor of their right to practice in Germany as a religious organization.

The U.S. State Department regularly criticizes Germany in its annual Human Rights Report for the monitoring practice.

The interior ministers gave no specific examples for their decision, but the most recent annual report on extremism compiled by their agencies criticized the organization for disregarding human rights.

"From a number of sources, some of them not available to the public, it has been determined that (the organization) seeks to limit or rescind basic and human rights, such as the right to develop one's personality and the right to be treated equally," the report said.

Earlier this year, the German government initially refused to allow the producers of a movie starring Scientology member Tom Cruise as the most famous anti-Hitler plotter to film at the site where the hero was executed, although it did not expressly state Scientology as its reason. It later allowed the production to go ahead.

The Los Angeles-based Church of Scientology was founded in 1954 by the late science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard. It first set up in Germany in 1970 and officials estimate it counts some 6,000 members in the country.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.

I think that Scientology is one enormous con, but I don't know if banning its practice is the appropriate response.

Thoughts?

**sunnykerr** · 12-11-2007, 08:30 PM

I'm pretty much right there with you on that one. Scientology's not my thing. To me, it does seem like a ginormous con. And I think we've all heard the horror stories floating around. Not to mention that the Canadian chapter has a bit of sketchy story with regards to the law.

But, having said all of that, I also don't know anything about Scientology. And, even if it is a big ole con, it's not like it's the only one out there.

The issue here isn't even Scientology per se. Much as I'm loathe to agree with any of its mouthpieces, this is very much a slippery slope. If you ban one thing for whatever reason, who's to say what other thing will next be deemed "banable" by whomever else?

Wilpen · 12-12-2007, 09:59 PM

Scientology is just... not my thing and that's an understatement, big time. However, baning it is opening up a can of worms in that we'll have chaos with endless moves to ban other things and I can see it getting way out of control.

cyanide rose · 12-13-2007, 02:39 AM

It will probably open up a can of worms but I don't blame them for trying to have $cientology banned. My co-worker's brother was left destitute after being brainwashed by this cult. It ruins lives (well, lives of people that aren't super-rich celebrities anyway).

migamoo · 12-13-2007, 06:00 PM

Does Germany have laws concerning "Freedom of Religion?" Or, what are their laws concerning religion?

**Primordial** · 12-14-2007, 06:28 AM

^Good and valid question.

migamoo · 12-14-2007, 09:16 AM

I mean, if they are like the US, then they really cannot ban a religion. But if they have no laws concerning freedom of religion, I guess they can do what they want. Doesn't mean it's a good choice though.

cookiely · 12-14-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

I mean, if they are like the US, then they really cannot ban a religion. But if they have no laws concerning freedom of religion, I guess they can do what they want. Doesn't mean it's a good choice though.

According to german law, Scientology is not a religion but more something like a club.
It is not easy to become a official religion in germany because as a official religion you are allowed to raise taxes and if every
small religion would be official the bureaucracy would be enourmous.

So they try to ban Scientology based on the assumption that it is just a club and not a religion and therefore the freedom of religion does not apply.

But to be honest it isn`t going to work even if german courts would go for it which i doubt the european courts won`t. They have already made clear that banning Scientology goes against human rights and would somply overrule the ban.

Imo this whole thing is just a ploy by Schäuble to draw attention away from the cuts he has been doing to the privacy rights which are far more severe.

welshgirlyUK · 12-14-2007, 11:26 AM

The European Courts wont have it, they'll say its a breach of human rights anyway.

LittleMilkJug · 12-20-2007, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshgirlyUK (View Post)

The European Courts wont have it, they'll say its a breach of human rights anyway.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not a fan of Scientology, but if there are adults who want to follow it and congregate and worship together, they should be free to do so.

**sum1** · 12-21-2007, 11:07 AM

Banning religions is unacceptable, unless they do human sacrifice or something.

**sunnykerr** · 12-22-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

Banning religions is unacceptable, unless they do human sacrifice or something.

Which, some would argue, is what Scientology does.

I don't believe banning is the right solution. And I certainly don't believe that any club, personal-growth organization or, quite frankly, even cults should be banned. I don't think there should be any allowances for secrecy either.

But I can't be the only one who's heard of lives being financially ruined and people... well, dying really, because of their beliefs in Scientology.

Now, I don't blame the movement/religion per se. There's always nutjobs and abusers in whatever group or religion anyone belongs to.

But, I guess my point is, it does seem that there have been human sacrifices here... in a way.

Jen Jaree · 12-22-2007, 08:42 PM

I believe in Freedom of Religion but I am not a fan of Scientology mostly because I think it is a scam and don't consider it a religion IMO but I guess every religion has been considered "not a real religion" at some point. Despite my beliefs against it I don't think it should be banned.

jalapeno_wildchild · 12-24-2007, 10:00 AM

just a question but, what do scientologists believe that makes them want to ban the religion?

elisheva · 12-24-2007, 10:28 AM

I think it's not about their beliefs, but (to be blunt) more about their history of scamming people out of their money.


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