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| Elite Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined: May 2001
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| Facebook and New Media News Thread #1 Judge: Student's Facebook rants about teacher are protected speech - Technology - MiamiHerald.com Judge: Student's Facebook rants about teacher are protected speech A teenager's venting about her teacher on a social networking site falls under the umbrella of the First Amendment, a federal judge ruled. In 2007, Katherine Evans, then a senior at Pembroke Pines Charter High School, created a Facebook page where she vented about ``the worst teacher I've ever met.'' A student who set up a Facebook page to complain about her teacher -- and was later suspended -- had every right to do so under the First Amendment, a federal magistrate has ruled. The ruling not only allows Katherine ``Katie'' Evans' suit against the principal to move forward, it could set a precedent in cases involving speech and social networking on the Internet, experts say. The courts are in the early stages of exploring the limits of free speech within social networking, said Howard Simon, the executive director of the Florida ACLU, which filed the suit on Evans' behalf. ``It's one of the main things that we wanted to establish in this case, that the First Amendment has a life in the social networking technology as it applies to the Internet and other forms of communication,'' Simon said. In 2007, Evans, then a senior at Pembroke Pines Charter High School, created a Facebook page where she vented about ``the worst teacher I've ever met.'' But instead of other students expressing their dislike of the teacher, most defended the teacher and attacked Evans. A couple days later, Evans took the page down. But after Principal Peter Bayer found out about it, he bumped Evan from her Advanced Placement classes, putting her in classes with less prestige, and suspended her for three days. In late 2008, Evans filed suit against the principal, asking that the suspension be ruled unconstitutional and reversed, that the documents be removed from her file at the school and that she receive reimbursement for attorney fees. Evans, an honors student, was concerned that the suspension would tarnish her academic record and hurt her chances in graduate school and her career. Bayer tried to get the case dismissed and asked for immunity against paying damages. In a ruling on Friday, Magistrate Judge Barry Garber declined Bayer's request to toss the case and said the principal could be forced to pay up if Evans, now 19 and a journalism student at the University of Florida, is victorious. ``Evans' speech falls under the wide umbrella of protected speech,'' Garber wrote. ``It was an opinion of a student about a teacher, that was published off-campus, did not cause any disruption on-campus, and was not lewd, vulgar, threatening, or advocating illegal or dangerous behavior.'' The judge also noted that the principal suspended Evans two months after she had taken the page down. ``In short, the potential spark of disruption had sputtered out, and all that remained was the opportunity to punish,'' Garber wrote. The judge dismissed the student's request to force Bayer to purge the records of her suspension, but gave her the opportunity to amend her complaint and make the demand of the right parties. Bayer could not be reached for comment Monday. Pembroke Pines City Manager Charlie Dodge, who oversees the city's charter school system, declined to comment on the lawsuit. Matthew D. Bavaro, who filed the suit with the American Civil Liberties Union on Evans' behalf, said the case helps clarify when schools can punish students for speech that doesn't take place at school. ``These days, things are done on the Internet. Socialization is done on the Internet,'' he said. ``So the law needs to adapt and we need precedent on how courts are going to apply First Amendment principles for off-campus speech.'' He said he believes the ruling ``seems like a pretty strong signal'' of where the case will go. While the suit is far from resolved, legal experts say it is an important case. ``I think there has been too great a tendency in recent years for public school officials to sort of reach beyond the classroom, reach beyond the school campus very often to try to regulate or punish free speech by students in the name of protecting order,'' said Sam Terilli, a media law and ethics professor at the University of Miami. ``While we can all understand that, post-Columbine, there are limits.'' But Terilli added: ``If a student is using or any other medium to threaten or even imply threats of violence, that's a different matter.'' The principal had no right to suspend this girl. The FB post didn't threaten the teacher's life. I mean, sure it wasn't a nice thing for her to do but that is someone's opinion. __________________ Phoebe (singing): Happy Hanukkah, Monica. May your Christmas be snowy, Joey. Happy New Year, Chandler and Ross. Spin the dreidel, Rachel! Have a happy holiday & prosperous new year! ![]() | |||
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| #2 | |||
| Elite Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | The principal and the school were totally in the wrong, but it was inevitable that it would come to this at some point. Schools all over the place seem to be taken sense of their common sense in favour of embracing the most stringent rules and regulations with regards to student behaviour. Remember that student who was sent home for wearing a Santa suit to school? And I remember a story of some young kids who were also suspended for playing a sort of tag game where you slapped other people's butts. It was deemed too sexual. A kindergardener was also suspended for kissing a fellow classmate on the cheek!!! Not to mention that you have to know there are power trips going on. The judge was right. This was about punishing an opinion, nothing more. And she's gone into journalism, huh? Good for her.Mind you, I hope they give the same lesson at her school as they did at my school when I went to journalism school. Which is that future employers will totally look up your Facebook profile to see what kind of person you are. So, you know, go easy on the posts about how drunk you are... __________________ Sunny "The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die." avie by Jessie | |||
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| #3 | |||
| Fan Forum's Finest ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | I kind of support the principal in this case. Freedom of speech is an important right, but freedom of publicly harrassing someone who has done little to earn it (as I got the impression was the case, since everyone else strongly disagreed with her assessment of her teacher) should not have the same protection. We have rules about libel for a reason. People should not be free to say whatever they want to tarnish the reputation of another. If this girl is gonna be a journalist, I am kind of fearful of what she will write in the paper about people who crosses her. I really hope she will have grown up by then. (winning this lawsuit is not gonna make that more likely though )__________________ Icon: unknown | |||
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| #4 | |||
| Moderator Manager ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | The kid is totally in the right. Quote:
If the kid went on some sort of rant and was completely attacking the teacher instead of giving her personal opinion in a respectful manner, that would be an entirely different thing. Like if she started a smear campaign or something. I'm glad she was smart enough to stick to her guns and get this pursued further. __________________ | |||
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| #5 | |||
| Ultimate Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Eh, I think the kid was a spoiled little brat who was probably ticked because the teacher gave her a bad grade or something to the sort. I've had teachers I didn't like but I've never put anything bad about them in the public sphere simply because that to me is childish and immature. If you have a problem with someone, you should confront them about it instead of creating a silly little facebook group and somehow justifying your actions by getting other people to join. That being said, she does have freedom of speech and unfortunately, is allowed to be as spoiled a little brat as she wants to be. She's going to have to grow thicker skin as a journalist. If she makes a facebook group about every professor who gives her a negative comment then she's going to take up all their bandwidth. __________________ Real Gamers Wear Pink "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed." — Ernest Hemingway | |||
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| #6 | |||
| Fan Forum's Finest ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 56,812
| I'm a senior in a high school, and it's actually quite common for people to make facebook groups about teachers. I haven't run into anything that negative, (there's one about how a teacher looks like a certain cartoon character) but it happens a lot. And what happens more often is people posting really negative comments about teachers in their statuses. I've done it. But I don't think that makes me a spoiled brat. I mean, I haven't gone as far and made a group, but I think it's still pretty much the same thing. So I don't think it's fair to call her a spoiled little brat, since you don't know why she made the group, besides that she thought they were the worst teacher. But, just like her, it's your freedom of speech to call her that, I suppose.But if it said anything threatening, I do think the school has the right to do something. __________________ ____If I had a world of my own → chrissy | | |||
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| #7 | |||
| Elite Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | I think the point is that, spoiled brat or not, she was entirely within her rights to voice her opinion. In a classroom setting, I would absolutely expect her to find a respectful way to give her thoughts on the matter, but this was off-campus. And it's not libel unless she lied about facts and then her lies caused the teacher in question damages. When you're saying someone sucks, even in print, it's not libel. Otherwise, no movie or music critic would ever be able to keep a job. __________________ Sunny "The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die." avie by Jessie | |||
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| #8 | |||
| Elite Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined: Sep 2009
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| I wonder how the world react if it was a network of teachers posting about the worst students ever... I doubt freedom of speech would apply to them.. __________________ Emily Credit: Dream1ng | |||
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| #9 | |||
| Elite Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | You're quite right. But then there would also be a question of power dynamics. Students are inherently in a position of vulnerability with regard to their teachers. I think there is a feeling that adults are beyond a student's opinions. Of course, if that opinion started to border on harrassment, it would become something else. __________________ Sunny "The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die." avie by Jessie | |||
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| #10 | |||
| Elite Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 29,956
| I am with you on that one. The power dynamics really put students in a vulnerable position but wild accusations do the same. It's really difficult. Maybe if there was better management of teachers from the college and more supervison/involvement from parents, these problems wouldn't be as bad? __________________ Emily Credit: Dream1ng | |||
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| #11 | |||
| Elite Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | I don't know that more management is necessarily the answer, though I'm sure it wouldn't hurt. I do think that there is both a lack of understanding of the crucial role teachers play in the upbringing of all children, even though the parents are of course the most important players, and also cases where parents leave all the educating of their kids up to these teachers. So that you have parents who are too involved and others who aren't enough. And, of course, I talk about this like I have all the answers. I am not a parent, but I have no doubt that it is a much harder job than I can possibly realize it is. __________________ Sunny "The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die." avie by Jessie | |||
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| #12 | |||
| Elite Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 29,956
| I don't know if you guys saw this but teachers are getting in trouble with facebook too. Teachers fired for flirting with students on Facebook They need a better screening method for teachers. __________________ Emily Credit: Dream1ng | |||
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| #13 | |||
| Elite Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | There needs to be better screening, I agree. __________________ Sunny "The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die." avie by Jessie | |||
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| #14 | |||
| Extreme Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,552
| I think that this case falls under the heading 'freedom of speech' but the problem seems to be, that Facebook takes it to another level. Earlier you carved something onto your school desk, nowadays you post it on Facebook... __________________
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| #15 | |||
| Elite Fan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 29,956
| Yeah technology has invaded privacy. __________________ Emily Credit: Dream1ng | |||
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