News & Politics - English, Welsh and Scottish flags banned at Olympics. - Page 3

**sunnykerr** · 08-26-2008, 06:08 PM

I never said the Republic of Ireland was under British power.

Most historians believe that the monarchy never fully recovered from Isabella's coup against Edward II, which of course occured centuries before James (or indeed any subsequent Stuart) was even a twinkle in his mother's eye.

And I don't see how my opinion on national identity is any assault on the reality of the national identity of other countries.

sum1 · 08-26-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post)

I never said the Republic of Ireland was under British power.

Yeah you did. You said

Quote:

Northern Ireland, Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales are all part of Great Britain. That is undeniably a fact.

Listing "Ireland" and listing it in addition to "Northern Ireland", that's pretty clearly saying that the Republic of Ireland, commonly called just "Ireland", is under British power and is part of "Great Britain". If you were just talking about "Northern Ireland" then you obviously wouldn't need to list "Ireland" separately as well.

**sunnykerr** · 08-27-2008, 04:39 AM

Okay, apparently I did. Obviously, that was a mistake as that does not (in any way, shape or form) reflect my thinking. I'd apologize, but then I imagine the fact that it was an honest mistake probably counts for something.

Shining Light · 08-27-2008, 05:22 AM

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There appears to be a lot more national pride in being Welsh, Scottish etc than being British.

To touch on this point, yes this is true. People will always call themselves Scottish/English/Welsh first, British second, both at home and abroad. We're not ashamed of being British, we're just fiercely proud of our individual identities. In my individual case, I have no problem being called British, but I'd rather be referred to as Scottish first and foremost. Being able to express this individual identity is a big issue for Brits, particularly the Scottish and Welsh, who don't take well to (mistakenly or otherwise) being called English. We like to be recognised as our own seperate nations, not just several nations put under the "United Kingdom" umbrella.

I was very disappointed by this flag ruling. It was wonderful to see Chris Hoy become Britain's first triple medal winning Olympian, and I had no problem with him flying the British flag, but I'd have loved to see him fly the Saltire at the same time. Us Scots are proud to say that our own country produced such a fine athlete, and I know Chris is very proud of being Scottish as well as British, so it would have been nice if he'd been allowed to express that. I'm also sure that any Scots over there supporting him would have much preferred to fly the Saltire as opposed to the Union Jack also, harking back to the national pride and individual identity issue I mentioned before. In Scotland there's issues with the Union Jack in relation to sport (mainly football) and particular religious beliefs, it's a very complex situation, and flying the Saltire is generally preferred by the majority.

welshgirlyUK · 08-27-2008, 10:34 AM

You basically summed up everything i feel Shining_Light.

Another point for the Welsh athletes involved in relation to the banning on the individual flag, is that whilst the Union Jack presents the unified form of the English and Scottish flag, it doesn't have any symbolic reference to the Welsh flag in there. There is no Dragon on the Union Jack, so where is there individual representation?

Shining Light · 08-27-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

whilst the Union Jack presents the unified form of the English and Scottish flag, it doesn't have any symbolic reference to the Welsh flag in there. There is no Dragon on the Union Jack, so where is there individual representation?

I've always wondered about that myself. Wales has no representation on the Union flag, so to say it's a representation of all nations is actually a big fib.

welshgirlyUK · 08-27-2008, 01:23 PM

IKR, it's all a lie, the only uniting on the flag is between Scotland and England. But to be honest, it's probably too late to change it up now because then New Zealand and Australia and the British Virgin islands and countless other flags would have to alter too. Besides, they did that survey not too long ago when they were considering adding a dragon and the majority of people didn't want it on the Union Jack. I'm okay with that though because the Dragon is fierce as hell and he's all ours! I just pretend the colour Red is for us, even though i know it's not....

**sunnykerr** · 08-27-2008, 06:50 PM

The Union Jack was never officially adopted either, right? I mean, it's not pretty much officially recognized as the official flag, but (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) there was never any formal "henceforth this shall be our flag" scenario.

welshgirlyUK · 08-28-2008, 12:33 AM

I'm pretty sure the Union Jack is recognised at the British flag... It's the one we fly from goverment buildings, Palaces, use at war and fly at half mast after a tradgedy or a member of the Royal family dies. Do other countries have formal this shall be our flag meetings? I'm not sure there is really any need for one, hell it'd probably just turn into another phone vote.

**sunnykerr** · 08-28-2008, 06:02 PM

All I know is the French flag was formally adopted through a constitutional measure; the Canadian flag was adopted following a parliamentary commission that came up with the design and the Royal sanction of the Queen that officially recognized it as such; the American flag was adopted following a resolution of the Second Continental Congress's marine committee (of course, it's evolved over the years); the Spanish flag's official design is a part of their constitution; the Portugese flag was also officially enshrined in law by its government when it became an official Republic... and so on.

Whereas there has never been (as far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong) any law in the United Kingdom officially recognizing the Union Jack as the official flag of the United Kingdom.

I mean, there is no doubt that it is everywhere recognized as such. That's not even up for debate.

I'm just saying that I always thought it was a bit of a fun fact that the Union Jack was never officially adopted as the flag.

welshgirlyUK · 08-29-2008, 03:43 AM

To be honest i really dont think there needs to be a law for it, and if there were people would just complain about the unnecessary cost of putting that legislation through for something we already know. It would also be difficult to put something like that through the legal system when there are seperate branches, whilst England and Wales share the common law legal system, Scotland have their own. There isn't a unified British legal system to put it through.

I believe it was adopted by King James in the official union of the Crowns. The King during that time would have been the person who decided on these matters, so perhaps it could be argued that it was officially declared as such, just not by a parliament like other countries, but by the King and Court. But to be honest, it was never something i studied in school so i cant really say.