[ceilirose]

Here's the new thread..link to the old one:

http://www.fanforum.com/forums/showt...threadid=22696

ETA - this thread is a haven for those of us on the left side of the political spectrum. Regular board rules apply.

Mods...please close the old one when you have a chance. Thanks.

[ceilirose]

Last night's debate...why is Bush so angry? Maybe it's because I never watch him unless it's necessary or because he's been so protected by his handlers but his anger is really surprising to me.

Do people really want this man representing our country? I know they do but after seeing his last two performances I really think he need anger management classes or some good meds.

[86amanda86]

I don't think he was angry, I think he comes across that way be cause he is so emphatic.

[ceilirose]

Originally posted by 86amanda86 I don't think he was angry, I think he comes across that way be cause he is so emphatic.

Amanda..I know you're new to the board but the Democratic thread is really a haven for those of us who think alike.

So I'd be willing to discuss it on the Presidential Debate thread but not this one.

Thanks.

[*Ledi*]

Originally posted by 86amanda86 I don't think he was angry, I think he comes across that way be cause he is so emphatic.

Or cause he has some anger management problems. End of story.



Anyway... I'm seriously so confused as to why any person on this earth would vote for such Idiot. It just doesn't make sense to me. But then again, what do I know, right? I'm from Canada.

[Monroe]

John Howard and the liberal party are elected again. I'm so furious. I've never actually been ashamed to be an Australian until now.

[86amanda86]

Honestly, is it not okay for me to discuss in here? If its not, I'm okay with that, but I was under the impression that (since it happens all the time on the consevative thread) both parties were free to discuss what is said here. If it's not, fine. I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, I was just saying that I don't think Bush is an angry person.

[Hobbesian]

I'm fine with Amanda coming here, but if she wants an honest discussion on this thread than she, and those like her, need to give the same credit on their thread rather than mocking and launching veiled insults at those who disagree with them over at the Republican thread. I'm frankly disgusted by the absurd level Republican hypocrisy at this point.

Let's be honest, Bush did a lot better in this debate than the last one. I'm not sure what happened. I'm in the process of watching the debate for the third time at this point, and I still can't pinpoint the moment where things start to go south. Obviously Kerry dominates the early portion of the debate, Bush looks extremely un-Presidential when he laughs twice during Kerry answers. He's obviously flustered at first and is screaming -- and Amanda, empathy does not equal screaming, either you don't know what the word means or here is a typo there or something; by no means does empathy ever come off as screaming. Martin Luther King Jr. tended to speak extremely loudly during his speeches. However, he was extremely empathetic and nobody would ever accuse him of screaming -- instead he spoke "forcefully". Bush wasn't speakign forcefully at first, he was screaming. Now, to be fair he was speaking forcefully and was extremely empathetic later on in the debate, but for the first 20 minutes he was screaming.

Sadly, this election is going to be decided largely by laymen and individuals who don't know anything about politics. Then again, Bush is an idiot too. I mean, how many times did the moderator try to ask Bush to reply and have Bush keep cutting him off and saying let me reply? The thing here is, though, that the polls which are so frequently reported in the media are meaningless. Bush up 2, Kerry up 4, who cares. Those of us who are actually knowledgable about politics are looking at completely different polls -- Wisconsin, Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Virginia. Bush could well win the popular vote by two or three percent and still lose this election as long as things go well in certain states.

For example, Kerry and Bush are in a statistical dead heat in Colorado. Beyond that, there is also another measure being voted for on the 2nd which would lead to a preportional split of the state's electoral votes. Now, that means Colorado -- a state which should be very pro-Republican -- is almost certain to give at least some electoral college votes to Kerry.

Secondly, Florida and Ohio. CNN's poll gives both states to Bush by less than the margin of error. Zogby (the most accurate poll in the world) gives both states to Kerry by a tiny amount.

Let's put it this way...Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida. Whomever wins two of those three will win the election -- end of story. National polls mean nothing, state polls are thekey at this point.

[86amanda86]

not empathetic, emphatic, as in \Em*phat"ic\, Uttered with emphasis; made prominent and impressive by a peculiar stress of voice;

[Lexis]

Amanda, I don't mind you coming here either. I enjoy visiting the Republican thread and would hate to be discouraged from visiting there.

We just all have to keep things respectful.

[ceilirose]

Originally posted by 86amanda86 Honestly, is it not okay for me to discuss in here? If its not, I'm okay with that, but I was under the impression that (since it happens all the time on the consevative thread) both parties were free to discuss what is said here. If it's not, fine. I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, I was just saying that I don't think Bush is an angry person.

We had a debate a few weeks ago with a Republican and some posters felt uncomfortable about it. So that's why we're trying to keep it as a haven with no debates.

Everyone needs a place to vent and maybe this isn't the best place to defend Bush as well.

[86amanda86]

thank you lexis, I do enjoy respectful discussion, please let me know if you ever think I'm out of line. I think we all just want to gain a better understanding of each other's views. And I also think it is possible to do so without attacking someone else or getting defensive, both of which I have been very guilty of, but I'm willing to start over without any hard feelings. I want to be able to discuss and hear without being petty or childish, which I think we can all agree this board is full of. But it's not right and its not fair to either side. So, I apologize to anyone I've offended, even when I did it on perpose. It was immature of me.

[Hobbesian]

Ah, ok, my apology Amanda. Sitting here watching the replay on CNN, posting on the Times board, here, reading the Kerry Blog, and Time's article. My apology.

I disagree that he was being emphatic, or if he was he was overly so. Bush was clearly screaming at the start of the debate. And I'll tell you, I thought the election was over ten minutes into the debate, and I wasn't alone. I was watching with several other people actively involved in the campaign, two Kerry staffers and another volunteer. When Bush first laughed we were all on our feet screaming at the TV. Kerry had Bush on the ropes early on, the President was laughing, his facial expressions were still bad and he was screaming. Then something happened, around 20 minutes into the debate. All of us watching together noticed it. By the question to Kerry about why the country hadn't been attacked Bush was cearly back on his feet and we were all seated again. By the question about not wanting tax money going to abortion we were cursing and people were talking about what to do now.

I'm not saying we lost this debate, I think Kerry won it...on a split decision. This was a very tight debate, and it is evidence of increasingly divergent strategy on the part of the two.

Kerry is shooting for the undecided, trying to play to the middle. Obviously evidenced by his heavily nuanced answer on abortion and stem cell reaserch. Bush, on the other hand, is playing to his base and making no effort to attract the middle. Bush is hoping to get amazing voter turnout and have no need for the middle. It's a very intersting strategy, one that may speak to the real power in this administration (which would be terrifying). We'll have to wait a few days to see how the strategy plays out, but I know this: If Kerry's strategy is to beat Bush's, we must win one of Cleveland or Miami by a massive amount. Obviously we will win both cities, but we need to win them huge, probably around 300k in Cleveland and even more than that in Miami-Dade.

We must win one of Ohio or Florida, and we must win Cleveland or Miami huge in order to do so. So, if you are considering volunteering and don't know where to do so...Cleveland or Miami.

[86amanda86]

I want to understand. I know you all are opposed to bush and his decisions, but do you think he is a bad person? Please answer honestly, I won't get mad, I just want to know.

[86amanda86]

Kerry is shooting for the undecided, trying to play to the middle. Obviously evidenced by his heavily nuanced answer on abortion and stem cell reaserch. Bush, on the other hand, is playing to his base and making no effort to attract the middle. Bush is hoping to get amazing voter turnout and have no need for the middle.

That is interesting. I never though of it like that, in terms of stratagy.