[wanderer78]

Just starting a new thread. Note to the mods. Please close the previous thread.

I hope no one minds that I started a new thread.

Here's a funny site I found:

Marry an American

I love the US (despite Bush), but it is tempting.

[RedRockSedona]

On going from last thread

Originally posted by ceilirose Rove shouldn't be preaching to anyone about banning same sex marriages and the resulting 'decent' society since he's known as running the dirtiest campaigns around. He sure isn't contributing to a decent society with the stuff he pulled this last campaign for Bush. Kerry didn't win this election but I still think the irregularities should be investigated. Legally I don't think Kerry's concession was binding but the vote wasn't as close as 2000 so there wouldn't be any reason for him to reconsider. Unless the vote was really fixed in Ohio and Florida which I doubt...it's one thing to fudge a few thousand votes but Bush won by over 100,000 in each state. Unfortunately we just have to deal with him for the next four years. But Ashcroft is gone. Is Rumsfeld far behind?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

Keith Olbermann has reported on this:

Cuyahoga County Ohio 93,000 more votes than voters (all for Bush)
Fairview Park Ohio 5,130 more votes than voters (all for Bush)
Franklin County Ohio 3,893 more votes than voters (all for Bush)
Warren Country secret counts their votes (by declaring state emergency as a part of home land sercurity unclear how this will effect the tally)

Total = 102023

reducing the amount Bush won to 53405

Un-counted
92,672 discarded balots Believed mostly for Kerry

155,000 Provisoinal Ballots Believed mostly for Kerry

247672 if all went to Kerry

net after 53405 is subtracted = +194267 Meaning Kerry won Ohio


BTW If only half of these un-counted votes went for Kerry he would still be over by 70431



And there are electronic irregularities else were Florida, North Carolina, New Mexico, and even in my own county/state (Pima/Arizona) BTW The only place in all of AZ where they use electronic voting (Diebold's Optic Scan) The voter turn out was the strongest ever and yet as reported by these machines it was 4% less than election 2000. It was said by GOTV committees such as "Turn AZ Blue" and the various Unions, that if AZ were to turn blue at all it would be in Pima County...I now wonder how much was shaved off Pima's Kerry count and added to Bush's count is voter turn out was expected to be greater than 80% turn out based on these machines was reduced to 66%?


Other links worth looking at:

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
(might be down while they are restructuring the site)

http://stolenelection2004.com/
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110804A.shtml


As for the other point...Isn't it interesting that the political right are saying moral values won this election and yet it is plain to see that it was lying, cheating and an unhealthy dose of the Fifth Deadliest Sin (hate/anger)

And while I fluctuate between calling myself lesbian to calling myself bi...I take it personal these attacks of the right. I liken it to McCarthyism. When the GOP controls the house, the senate the White House the Supreme Court and YES they control the media too...how can one not see that the political right is in search of scapegoats, where GLBT and Islam are just two. As with any scapegoat the only purpose do this to absolve them self of any wrong doing while letting themselves off the hook for not taking any responsibility in trying to making things right. In order to make real the scapegoats of choice they insite fear and hate. How many of the Dems can honestly answer that they did not feel any animosity to the GLBT community when you were told it was they who lost the election for the Dems? It was all smoke and mirrors for clearly we are beginning to realize it was electronic voting that stole it from the Dems.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain (locked up court house) Warren Country...there might be terrorist. The only terrorists are those tampering with the vote.

To the GOP I say this I am American first. If I happen to be gay and they can't hang that is their problem. I would also like to add that as an American I work in defense of her every day: from working for an aerospace defense contractor to keeping a copy of the constitution in my car as well as a reminder of that everybody as it says specially in The 14 Amendment is entitled to equal protection...and yes this means marriage too.

[pixiedude]

From Micheal Berube Online:

Instead, we must devise a “wedge issue” that is as powerful and compelling as the campaign against gay marriage.�_ And just as the campaign against gay marriage draws its deepest support from conservative rural areas hundreds of miles away from the nearest actual cohabiting gay couple, so too must progressives-- especially urban-identified, “metro” progressives-- seek to mobilize an energetic Democratic base by inventing a chimera that none of us have actually ever seen and cannot imagine anyone actually caring about. Janet suggested this morning that we try alerting our fellow progressives to the fact that certain farmers in these rural areas are keeping sheep and goats in the same pen.�_ It is an outrage, no question about it-- after all, these people are violating the proverbial imperative to distinguish the sheep from the goats, one of the most ancient proverbial imperatives in the history of proverbs-- but more important, it has no material bearing whatsoever on the conduct of our lives.�_ The disposition of sheep and goats on certain rural farms does not affect our salaries, our health care, our children’s education, or the quality of our housing.�_ It has nothing to do with the debacle in Iraq or the torture chambers of Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.�_ It does not diminish or enhance our own civil liberties. It will not affect the ozone layer or industrial mercury emissions; it will not alter the budget deficit or the balance of trade.�_ And that is why we must denounce this practice. We must denounce it in the coffeehouses, in the graduate seminars, at the wine tastings, at every performance in the Alice Tully Hall-- wherever cosmopolitan liberal elitists congregate.�_ Until our land is rid of this plague, this promiscuous mingling of sheep with goats in precincts unknown to us, we cannot begin to take back America.

Bright Spots is an Alternet article about down-ticket liberal victories, and ballot initiatives for things like raising the minimum wage and medical marijuana, that passed in states that went for Bush.

Renew the Fairness Doctrine is an online petition in support of a bill proposed in the House of Reps to restore the rule that broadcast outlets must give equal time to opposing views, which was thrown out in 1986.

[In Fair Verona]

pixiedude - That was hilarious, I love it.

I've seen a ton of articles and even heard people talking about this on BBC radio, about all these uncounted ballots and the provisional ballots which would make it so that Kerry wins Ohio. I'm just wondering if all of these leads have the potential to actually change anything.

[alli balli]

I found this quote on some random kid's xanga:

Ancient Republican Proverb: Teach a man to light a fire and he will be warm forever. But throw him into the fire and he will never again complain about being cold.

I'm sorry, it's funny. Hee.

[*Circe*]

pixiedust: Thats great! You should post it on the gay rights debate thread.



~Belle

[RedRockSedona]

I am not sure about Dems creating a "Wedge Device" but Janet’s analogy sure hits upon how ridiculous the wedge used by the political right.

Personally I believe better effort should be spent on waking up the misguided fools in the middle of the country who continue to align themselves with those who hurt them worse. Because the real villain here is not Liberals as they are led to believe but corporate big business. It is they who control most of the world as well as our perception of it. (meaning those who are not so wise to know the truth). And it is they who sit back while the poor and middle class are made to subsidize their life styles, their tax cuts and their loop holes.

[ceilirose]

On Tuesday I was listening to NPR and they were discussing how the Democratcs performed in the election. A caller from Kentucky (originally from the Northeast) said that people he worked with knew that Bush was a failure as a President but he would not allow gay marriage so he got their vote. Unscientific I know..but I dare to say there are many out there who voted the way they did because of that position. Failure meaning the way he handled the economy, the war and the environment to a lesser degree.

I'm not upset or blame gays/lesbians for the loss. I'm upset at the Republican Party for using gay marriage and abortion as issues to divide people. My head will explode if I hear one more talking head on cable tell me that the Republicans are the Morality Party, represent American morality, etc., etc.

For those who have the time.. this diary is based on a paper by a former CNN bureau chief:

http://dailykos.com/story/2004/11/10/182434/90

It's really long but one of her points is that ratings count and CNN caters to the needs of the American audience. They saw Fox's ratings climb when they presented a consistently pro-American viewpoint and it affected them.

Here's one excerpt from the paper:

he fall of Baghdad, I know of one very specific case in which a CNN correspondent told me he had received "negative feedback" from management in Atlanta after he filed a report describing the postwar situation in Baghdad as "a mess." "I think the press self-muzzled," said CNN's own Christiane Amanpour on a TV talk show in September of that year. "I'm sorry to say, but certainly television and, perhaps, to a certain extent, my station was intimidated by the administration and its foot soldiers at Fox News. And it did, in fact, put a climate of fear and self-censorship, in my view, in terms of the kind of broadcast work we did.

In happier news...preliminary tests on Elizabeth Edwards show that her cancer has not spread beyond her breast tumor.

And...

Know how many Bush administration people it takes to change a light bulb?

None, no reason to change anything! Anyone who advocates that there is a burned out bulb is aiding the forces of evil.

[*Maria*]

Originally posted by ceilirose Know how many Bush administration people it takes to change a light bulb? None, no reason to change anything! Anyone who advocates that there is a burned out bulb is aiding the forces of evil.

Classic, man.

Anyway, yes, it's actually kind of obvious that they muzzled the media to an extent. It's unfortunate that the news has to have a skew on it, whether for the left, right, or "America".

[dawsonandjo1]

I'm a little confused on the Ohio situation. If Kerry did indeed win Ohio does that mean he could have won the election?

[UnsilentMajorty]

"You can't not support Bush now. It'd be like going to the Special Olympics and booing the athletes."

--Comediane Wanda Sykes on Jay Leno

[Milt Palacio]

What do we call ourselves if not liberal?

Progressive. The term "liberal" should be replaced with the term "progressive".

I want social, economic, and scientific progress in our country. I want to move forwards, not backwards. I don't want to tell people what to do or how they have to live their life. I support freedom and civil rights for all Americans. I support conservative government spending, and fiscal responsiblity and accountability.

Liberal has become a derogatory term, thanks to hate-spewing Republicans.

I propose all "liberals" refer to themselves as "progressives" from now on.

[Cress]

MoveOn.org has a petition to investigate the voting irregularities. Do you think it will really make a difference in the election, or is it too late?

[JohannafromIHJ]

Liberal has become a derogatory term, thanks to hate-spewing Republicans.

"Liberal" is what we call the Swedish right (the Swedish right is very left compared to the Republicans. In fact, they're quite similar to the US liberals, except whinier).

[LaraCroft01]

Originally posted by ceilirose On Tuesday I was listening to NPR and they were discussing how the Democratcs performed in the election. A caller from Kentucky (originally from the Northeast) said that people he worked with knew that Bush was a failure as a President but he would not allow gay marriage so he got their vote. Unscientific I know..but I dare to say there are many out there who voted the way they did because of that position. Failure meaning the way he handled the economy, the war and the environment to a lesser degree. I'm not upset or blame gays/lesbians for the loss. I'm upset at the Republican Party for using gay marriage and abortion as issues to divide people. My head will explode if I hear one more talking head on cable tell me that the Republicans are the Morality Party, represent American morality, etc., etc. For those who have the time.. this diary is based on a paper by a former CNN bureau chief: http://dailykos.com/story/2004/11/10/182434/90 It's really long but one of her points is that ratings count and CNN caters to the needs of the American audience. They saw Fox's ratings climb when they presented a consistently pro-American viewpoint and it affected them. Here's one excerpt from the paper: In happier news...preliminary tests on Elizabeth Edwards show that her cancer has not spread beyond her breast tumor. And... Know how many Bush administration people it takes to change a light bulb? None, no reason to change anything! Anyone who advocates that there is a burned out bulb is aiding the forces of evil.

I know what you mean, if I hear them refere to themselves as a moral group of people I will puke. To me they are anything but.

This administration makes me so mad. How dare they have the audicity to say who can and cannot get married because they happen to love someone of the same sex. It's ludicous to me.

Why doesn't this administration focus on areas where it has royally screwed up? No they would rather take focus away from there dismal record and turn homosexuals into the bad guys.

I can't phantom voting for someone just because of there stance on abortion and gay marriage. I can't imagine voting for Bush in general though, I mean how can people possibly sleep at night after casting a vote for one of the most incompitent men on the planet? Ugh! I don't get it.

They say gay marriage has no place in decent society - this admininstration has no place in decent society! Ugh such a bunch of hypocrities.

I don't think I get the joke... pretty sad I know