froggiepopple

Lexis

Interesting article.

I'm not sure I agree with it all - France was instrumental to America when you were kicking British asses back across the Atlantic and they gifted you one of the best monuments on the planet (Statue of Liberty).

I also think there is a fine line. There is of course anti-Americanism (in the style mentioned in this article - in my opinion, intellectual snobbery) and more aggressie hatred (as practiced by al-Qaeda and co) but there is also legitimate concern which I don't think can be termed anti-American.

I would be horrified to be labelled anti-American. I adore the country, I admire your history and many of your political figures, on my trips there, I really like your people and your attitude. Plus, America is a gorgeous country (what was the French dude thinking?). At the same time though, I do not agree with all America's policies but I do respect the nation.

As for why people get more het up about America's decisions while we are less outraged by the thugs of the world, I personally think it has something to do with the huge power the US has and the simple fact that many of us hold America to a higher standard because of your strength/institutions. America guarantees the rights of its people, it has huge potential to effect change on a global scale...and when your heroes stumble, it can be especially disappointing.

sum1

Good article froggiepopple. Yes there is a one-sidedness to it. And so much of the anti-Americanism looks like ridiculous hypocrisy when examined closely.

froggiepopple

That is one of the consequences of having America be the most powerful nation. I still feel uneasy about those that only fight for the rights of people if America is involved, but stay silent when they are not involved. I think it shows that perhaps some people aren't as big as humanitarian as they set out to be. I heard someone once say, "if America was to send out troops to Darfur to help stop the genocide, America would automatically be accused of American Imperalism." Unfortunately I believe this to be true. (I still think regardless of what anyone else will say we should go help Darfur.)

I wish I had an article, but there was a protest somewhere in Europe (England I believe) that was to end the Gulf War. A man who was a Kurd approached the protesters and asked them, "Don't these people have a right to be free from genocide?" I believe the article ended at that.

sunnykerr

I always go back to the words of Pierre Elliott Trudeau:

Living beside the United States is rather like sleeping beside an elephant. No matter how gentle the beast, its every grunts and movements are bound to affect you.

chicah

I have to admit I have some prejudices when it comes to Americans - something I think come from that we only see the bad things you guys or your screwed government do on the news and talk about it at school.
I don't think I know one person who supports America, most people seem to just think of you as a pain in the ass, and find it quite ironic that a terrorist and a man (and previous governments) who supports and has also supported terror elsewhere, whenever it's in their interest, is leading the so-called war on terror. All we see is death penalty and people killing abortion doctors and the Iraq war. And then we are reminded of Vietnam, Afghanistan and so on, and how Bush and co try to deny global warming (although even he has actually admitted that it is human made, at least to some degree) and we all think: What a bunch of idiots. Why do the world let them keep on doing that? Why are they allowed to have nuclear weapons but no one else? How come they're always fighting their wars on other continents? How can they allow Coca-Cola to steal the village's water in India? How come they first bought weapons for Saddam and supported his way to the top and then afterwards take the credit for taking him down? And so on and so on.

I think it is your own fault that you're not very popular in most of Europe, or not the average American, although we also are under the impression that you're all fat, arrogant, conservative and Christian. Because those are the sides we see of you - in the news, for instance.

Indian Summer

While I get what you're saying, I think it's important to point out that this is pretty routine from all western governments. At the time, usually, the leader is the lesser of two evils. Usually, by the time they realize that leader's amassed a little too much power, it's past time to step in and quell it peacefully. The same happened with Hitler, but it wasn't America- more France and Britain- that should've quelled that one.

As opposed to the actions of certain inviduals that the majority of the country disagrees with and is unsatisfied with. Riiiight.

sunnykerr

I may be misunderstanding you, so bear with me if that's the case.

But, speaking as someone who has the occasional bout of wanting to shake the whole nation violently to try to knock some sense into it, I think we need to be very careful when we say things like "it's your own fault that you're not very popular with most of Europe." The fact is that, right now, a big problem facing Americans is that, in spite of having one of the best democratic systms in the world, the people don't have much say in what their government does. There's some sort of breakdown in the system where people are elected to represent their constituencies but then, once elected, don't necessarily act in a manner that represents their electorate at all.

So we should make sure that we don't assume that the current (or past) U.S. goverment always speaks for its people.

And, trust me, I've had many a bone to pick with "Americans." My hometown is a ghost town now because it was a small town and pretty much its sole economic resource was the soft-lumber mill in town. And, in spite of five different World Bank rulings, the current U.S. administration refused to recognize that the soft-lumber trade fell under NAFTA. So my hometown was essentially bankrupted.

Then there's the four Canadian soldiers who were killed by friendly American fire in Afghanistan back in 2002 because the two fighter pilots had been pumped full of some sort of drug to allow them to stay awake during 12 plus hour flight patrols, so they forgot that they'd been told the Canadian army would be running exercises in that particular reason, they missed the Canadian flags, and so they thought they were seeing the enemy and they naturally opened fire.

Nevermind that they threatened economic sanctions against Canada when our former administration was debating decriminilizing single possession of marijuana, because of how the U.S. is fighting a war on drugs and everything.

And then there's the constant remonstrances that our borders are too Swiss-cheese-like. Because terrorists have been caught trying to get in the U.S. through us. Because, you know, well they almost got in, I guess. But tell that to the Minute Men stationed at the border near my hometown.

So, yeah, I, too, have a bone to pick with "Americans." But those are all decisions taken by politicians (and, well, one fringe group). I didn't think it was the fault of all "Americans" when a group posted pictures of aborted babies along the highway from my home to my school.

It's just like the rest of the world. You can't generalize a whole nation based on the actions of those who lead it or even just individuals within it.

Maggie aka Sarah

chicah: Thank you for posting what in my opinion is a very good example of the results of biased media reports and biased educational instruction.

It seems to have flown right past you are about half of the American population did not vote for George Bush or the Republicans.

The large movement to withdraw the American troops from Iraq also seems to have escaped your notice. Same with the results of the last election where the Democrats won significant victories.

And hey.... finding very very very bizarre that being Christian is something that is a cause to be hated.

Not all Christians subscribe to the beliefs that you find so abhorant. Some Christians even believe in peace, good will and equality of man. Hey... even some Republicans believe in such stuff.

Will post more later tonight. Pizza arrived.

Maggie

chicah

I said that "or not the average American", which means that I'm not talking about all Americans. What I meant was, anyway, that when Bush run the shop it's no wonder people don't like America. Especially when he was even elected twice(!) that was what got a lot of people to think "Oh Lord, those idiots..."

Indian Summer

Or that Bush's approval ratings haven't been at 50% since 2005? Yeeeah.

Wow, way to be offensive. But once again, if you were more familiar with the circumstances here, you'd know that his first election was a fluke- he lost the popular vote, the one US citizens have control over- and only won the electoral, which is controlled by government officials.

froggiepopple

What are you talking about????? The Development and Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons

chicah

Froggiepopple, I know they're not the only country with nuclear weapons, which I've already said in the Iran thread. But I know a lot of people who think this way.

People are so offended but I never said I think all of that. But I know a lot of people who do. And I admit myself I have prejudices towards Americans, especially American politics.
I'm just trying to give an image of what very many people think right now.

Indian Summer

I'm by no means a Bush fan, but... how, exactly, is he a terrorist, chicah?

chicah

Summer: Ever heard of Guantanamo bay? Ever heard that CIA trained Bin Laden? Ever heard that the reasons for the war in Iraq were fake? And so on and so on.
I mean, a guy who legalizes use of torture during interrogation has their blood on his hands.

And even in the chat I am right now they are talking about how, and I quote, "everything that defines America isn't made by Americans".
NASA was started by Canadian engineers, BMW is German, and so on. I've also seen a lot of people, both there and elsewhere, talking about how uneducated Americans are because they illiteracy rate is very high and people deny the evolution. I don't think that all Americans deny Darwin or are uneducated, but I just think this shows what people think of Americans.