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Old 04-18-2012, 08:20 PM
  #46
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To me, it's a pretty severe endictment of a person when they go after an animal.

You know, it's the whole "look at how a person treats those who have less power than they do" thing.

I think that officer must have been scared and twitchy to do something like that. If that's the case, though, he's in the wrong line of duty.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:53 AM
  #47
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See, I'm not against punishment per se, but a person has to have an acceptance of the punishment for it to stick, no? I mean, it shouldn't be up to them, of course. But if the person feels that the only thing they did wrong was getting caught, then it doesn't matter what you do to them, all they're doing is bidding their time.

Which is why I feel like the rehabilitation part is more important. Besides, the emprisonment and inherent curtailing of normal freedoms and liberties is an inherent punishiment, I should think.

Maybe it's just me. But having to do my business in the open, having to shower in public, being told when to get up, where to go, what to eat, when to go to bed, and so forth... that'd be a punishing experience for me.
Do Canadian prisoners generally have access to playstations, cable television and the internet out of interest?

We've got to strike that balance between doing our duty by the past victim and preventing others in the future, IMO the emphasis has tipped too far toward the latter.


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And the story about the cop killing the dog...

That, to me, is an abuse of power. I'd go too far if I were to say that it smells of sociopathy, since animal cruelty is one of the first signs of sociopathic development, but there's a devaluation of life here that I find appalling.

When you go to a house and you hold someone at gunpoint, how exactly do you expect the person's faithful pet to react?

But this is indeed in line with all the stories we hear about police officers shooting unarmed people who were going for their wallet or shooting kids in the back who were running away from them or killing innocent people for no good reason.
Some officers simply aren't fit to carry a gun perhaps, a taser at the very most. Police and those in security do their fair share of profiling in the line of duty, this should be put to some use closer to home it would appear.


[QUOTE=sunnykerr;62660039]I've known nothing but good cops in my life, and I've known a fair amount, too.

Sunny likes a guy in uniform huh?
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:53 AM
  #48
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I remember that my girlfriend was over at her sister's apartment when her sister was getting out of a relationship and things weren't going well. The relationship was abusive and we were worried about her sister's safety so the police were called. My girlfriend's sister had two dogs and one of them were barking and the cop pointed his taser at the dog and said that if she couldn't get the ********** dog to shut up he was going to tase it. I wish I'd been there. I would have made sure to note his name and I'd have contacted the chief to let him know that one of his officers couldn't keep his cool around a barking dog. Probably wouldn't have led to anything, but I might have written a couple anonymous letters to the newspaper as well. Some people just aren't meant for the job. It's a pity though that you only hear about cops when they die or do something stupid. Most of them do great things but they'll never be recognized for that.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:36 AM
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The chief of this department is really starting to irritate me. He held a press conference basically indicating you can't hold the cop responsible because an Austin police officer was recently killed. I'm truly sorry to hear that, I think cop killers are the scum of the earth, but #1, if this officer was THAT traumatized, he had no business on the job and #2, I'm not sure what that has to do with a barking dog. The officer who died wasn't killed by a dog. Obviously, some animal control reports regarding the dead dog (which any dog owner in the US could tell you are not serious or alarming reports, just over-reactive people terrified of dogs) were pretty clear leaked by the department. This- and similar crap was pulled by the Sanford police department- is the kind of thing that makes people not trust cops even if most of it is unwarranted. Deflecting blame isn't going to make you any more popular. There's a tape of this incident. We know what happened. We know there was no time for some deadly dog attack, and that the officer didn't give the owner ANY time to restrain the dog before shooting him. We know he pulled his gun too quickly on an unarmed man as it was.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:19 PM
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The thin blue line is gathering around its own. I can't say I fault them for it. Hopefully, though, there will be independent review. When a police officer comes under suspicion, it shouldn't be up to his peers to decide what happens next.



And, indeed, if the death of a colleague was so fresh on his mind as to justify these actions, then perhaps there needs to be a re-examination of the guidelines regarding allowing traumatized officers from going back on the streets.

Quote:
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Do Canadian prisoners generally have access to playstations, cable television and the internet out of interest?

We've got to strike that balance between doing our duty by the past victim and preventing others in the future, IMO the emphasis has tipped too far toward the latter.
Well, I've never been inside a jail, so I can't say for sure. I would imagine there are recreational facilities in some prisons, if not all, and I would imagine those include televisions. I would imagine prisoners also have access to the Internet in the same manner that they have access to telephones. And I can't say that I have a problem with any of it.

I do believe in doing our duty to the victims of crimes, but I'm not sure that's the role of the prison system. Not that I'm the expert here. I just think that, once they're incarcerated, it becomes a bit more about what we owe to society upon their release and what we owe the guards tasked with herding the convicts...

So if good behaviour gets them access to TV time and a Play Station, then I say give it to them. I think their stay in prison is about more important things.

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Sunny likes a guy in uniform huh?
I actually was referencing adults I knew when I was a child. You know, my brother's hockey coach, the owner of the building my mother moved into right after my parents divorced, the husband of one of her olderst friends, my brother's friends and teachers when he studied at our version of the police academy... and, okay, some of my cousins who are actually quite a bit older, but that's neither here nor there.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:35 PM
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It's looking like the remains of the original boy on the milk carton may have at long last been found.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/20/ny...r-remains.html
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:57 AM
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That's good news I suppose - at least it'd be some sort of closure to the family.

Interesting new video in the Trayvon Martin case - maybe it's not as black and white as initially thought:

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Old 04-20-2012, 12:34 PM
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I never thought it was black and white. I have no doubts that Trayvon Martin might have attacked this man, but I'd argue that he was justified. If I was being followed by a man through a neighborhood and he stopped me and started telling me to do something or insulting me or in general talking to me, my hackles would be up to begin with. I'd think he was some crazy guy who was going to do something with me. Unfortunately, we'll never find out what happened, but this whole situation could have ended differently if Zimmerman wasn't some arrogant, pumped-up, cop wannabe.
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:23 PM
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Those still look fairly surface wound to me- nothing that would even require a bandage to stop bleeding. Basically, something you might get while scuffling around on the ground, not repeatedly having your head smashed into concrete and repeatedly being punched in the face. There's no doubt these two were fighting on the ground at one point- everyone saw that. What is in question is who is the aggressor, and was George Zimmerman really in reasonable fear for his life when he actually pulled the trigger. Because if George Zimmerman continued to pursue and aggress Trayvon, he is the one who had a right to defend himself. And does a fight that you started give you the right to pull out a gun? That's the main question.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:55 PM
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Much as I hate conspiracy theories myself... anyone have the thought that he might have done that to himself?

Anyway, it makes more sense that Trayvon Martin, if he had the time, fought tooth and nail to stay alive. I think, in those circumstances, that's what a person would do.

Doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman brought things to bear in this case.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:19 PM
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I've thought that about a broken nose, definitely. He didn't have one in that surveillance tape, he just did not. So if he had one the next day, he did it to himself. What makes me think he could have is that a few witnesses reported he had his hands on Trayvon's body, but was not seemingly trying to revive him or stop any bleeding (how could he, Trayvon was face down)- it was like he was looking for something. I thnk he was looking for a weapon, one he assumed Trayvon had. When he realized the kid was unarmed, he knew he was sunk if he didn't come up with something fast.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:27 PM
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Why not try to get at least some of the facts before making a snap judgment? I mean you nor I was there so we don't definitively know what happened. Zimmerman may be a piece of crap but he could be telling the truth. We don't know so why speculate? Besides, it's not what you know. It's what you can prove. The court has to prove that he did it without any doubt.
People see this case and they automatically think "well it was evil whitey trying to kill a black person" without even knowing hardly any of the facts.
I mean seriously, this whole incident is a pathetic sad attempt of race baiting in my opinion. People want this to be a hate crime and about racism so they have something to whine and complain about and spread fake hate and prejudice.


Zimmerman is half-Hispanic.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:36 AM
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Why not try to get at least some of the facts before making a snap judgment? I mean you nor I was there so we don't definitively know what happened. Zimmerman may be a piece of crap but he could be telling the truth. We don't know so why speculate? Besides, it's not what you know. It's what you can prove. The court has to prove that he did it without any doubt.
People see this case and they automatically think "well it was evil whitey trying to kill a black person" without even knowing hardly any of the facts.
I mean seriously, this whole incident is a pathetic sad attempt of race baiting in my opinion. People want this to be a hate crime and about racism so they have something to whine and complain about and spread fake hate and prejudice.


Zimmerman is half-Hispanic.
I don't think it's a hate crime and no one here has said that (once again, Jacob. Reading comprehension fails you).

If a man defies police orders to not follow this boy and does so anyway, there's a problem.
If a 200+ pound man needs a gun to defend himself against a 160 pound-16 year old, there's a problem.
If a man follows me around a neighborhood and confronts me without having any authority and any reason to do so, there's a problem.
Remember "stranger danger". Zimmerman's a perfect example of that. He's a power-mad, wannabe cop who screwed that dream up with previous convictions so now he's mad at the cops and is going to defy them because he thinks he knows better. Jesus, Jacob. This guy's a psych profile waiting to happen. Are you sure you have a degree in psychology?
I'm sure the kid had an attitude, maybe he even threw the first punch, but Zimmerman shouldn't have been there in the first place. The whole thing could have been prevented if this guy hadn't watched too many cop movies and thought that he was going to go be a killer.

But, you want to turn this into a race battle, Jacob? Ask yourself this question. Would Zimmerman have still gone after him if he was white?
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:00 AM
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Jacob, Zimmerman has already been caught in some lies. His original claim that Trayvon approached him twice is made literally impossible by the timeline of his own 911 call, the time of the 911 calls made by neighbors, and the time that the police arrived at the scene. He lied yesterday on the witness stand, saying he did not know Trayvon was so young- he identifies him as "late teens" on the 911 call. And from what we know happened, Zimmerman CANNOT be the sole victim- he had NO business getting out of his car to chase that kid who, by his own words, was guilty of nothing more than "walking around and looking about." From that moment, he made himself the aggressor. It's also almost impossible he ever intended to get back in his car, because he HAD more than enough time to get back from when the 911 dispatcher told him to stop following Trayvon and yet the fight occurred not near his car, but on the path back to Trayvon's father's home. He's not telling the truth that he is the only victim in this scenario. Whether or not Trayvon managed to get a few punches in before he died, he's still not telling the truth about that.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:59 AM
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I never thought it was black and white. I have no doubts that Trayvon Martin might have attacked this man, but I'd argue that he was justified. If I was being followed by a man through a neighborhood and he stopped me and started telling me to do something or insulting me or in general talking to me, my hackles would be up to begin with. I'd think he was some crazy guy who was going to do something with me. Unfortunately, we'll never find out what happened, but this whole situation could have ended differently if Zimmerman wasn't some arrogant, pumped-up, cop wannabe.
I don't disagree with you. But if Zimmerman felt threatened, he has a right to self defense regardless of whether he got into the situation by his own actions. I think the prosecution might have a hard time proving Murder Two - manslaughter would have been easier. I just hope they know what they're doing...
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