[Cristofle]

There's no registered list of domestic abusers here in the US, not like registered sex offenders (of course, they ARE sometimes one and the same). If they're charged for it, which is highly unlikely, it would be on their record, but there's no database or anything. I wish there was- I think that like rapists, domestic abusers don't have it in them to change 99.99% of the time. If a man hits you once, he will keep hitting you. If he hit his last girlfriend, he'll hit you too.

[Gray Ghost]

Do you honestly think minorities like being viewed as helpless and stupid and as basically charity cases? Do you think white people like being viewed as not ever needing any help at all because everything has been handed to them on a silver platter?


Cristofle, I laughed at your post toward me. You're calling me ignorant? I freakin' support ending the drug war so Americans all of skin colors won't be sent to prison for bullcrap reasons. Do you support ending the war on drugs?

[Avatar]

I haven't heard anything about such a list here either, Nick - it does seem like a bit of a questionable thing to me privacy-wise, I must say.

[Cristofle]

I've said before I find the war on drugs to be an astronomical waste of time and money and a detrimental strain on our prison and court systems. I don't find it likely that it will go away any time soon due to the national rhetoric, but I have no use for it myself. However, that alone will not "save" the system for people of color and it's foolish to think otherwise.

Also, I don't particularly want to pick your brain- not because I'm not "brave", but because it simply doesn't interest me. You say inciteful and usually rude things, not insightful things.

I don't know re: privacy though. There's a reason that criminal proceedings are a matter of public record unless a minor is involved, and there's a reason there is a registered sex offender database- I think you give up some of your rights to privacy when you start beating women, the same way you do when you start raping them. From that point on, women have a right to protect themselves from you. However, I don't know exactly how much good it would do, from the national response of young girls to Chris Brown who are still prone to saying "I'd let him beat me any time" on Twitter.

[Avatar]

True. But isn't there something to be said about having done your time? It's a bit of a difficult subject for me to reconcile - the rights of the perp to start over and the right of society to protect itself. I don't have a good solution, but I'm not sure lists and databases are it.

[Cristofle]

I don't think doing your time necessarily completely wipes the slate clean- you did your time and you're not in prison anymore, but your record will always be there and you have to disclose to any future employers. And in cases of habitual offenders like rapists and domestic abusers (there are very few men who rape only once or beat only one woman), it's hard for me to think their rights outweigh the rights of women to protect themselves from men like that. They took away the rights of the women they abused- those women will never really be whole again, so it's hard for me to really be all that concerned with the privacy of the abusers.

Again, with domestic abusers, I doubt a registry would make much of a difference. Sadly in a lot of places in the US at least, it's still not considered that big a deal to "knock your wife around some" (it's even still a law on the books of South Carolina that a man can beat his wife on the steps of the court house on Sunday- now, this law hasn't been taken advantage of in probably over 100 years, but it remains there) and it doesn't seem to deter the women who get involved with men like that even if they do know. It seems more widely accepted that a rapist is a dangerous man. And I very much believe in the registered sex offenders list (although some things that can get you on it are pretty stupid and a waste of the list- that list should be reserved for truly dangerous people) because of the high re-offender rate. Granted, I think pedophilia should carry a mandatory life sentence- there is NO psychological evidence that pedophiles can be redeemed. It's an urge they have always had and will always have.

[sunnykerr]

If doing one's time doesn't wipe the slate clean, then we shouldn't be releasing people into society.

Now, I understand that the system is flawed and there are several crimes for which the sentences handed out simply do not connect with the severity of the crimes they're connected to. For instance, I don't believe actual predatory pedophiles should ever breathe fresh air.

The jail system should be about making sure people who are released into society can behave in society. Obviously, nothing involving human beings will ever be perfect and I may be an idealist, but I'm not stupid.

It just seems to me that, if someone goes back out into society, then we should make sure that person has paid their debt to society.

It obviously doesn't mean we forget what they've done, so perhaps we should extend the parole system to include every last individual who is released ('cause, you know, it's not like the parole systems of this world are understaffed and underfunded or anything...)

[Cristofle]

Given the high rate of re-offenders from people who have been in prison, at least in the United States, I don't think we're doing a very good job on that front, lol. Granted, I think our prison system is a disaster- people often seem to come out a lot more dangerous than they came in. The ringleader in the dragging death in Jasper, Texas is a good example- he was not a particularly violent kid, then he did hard time and got raped in jail and joined an Aryan gang and came out hating all black people, and an innocent man ended up dying a horrible, brutal death.

[Nick HeyRee]

Except in times of severely constrained finances the prison system is i would have thought only likely to serve us worse than before. People being let out earlier than otherwise and in the charge of a parole/probationary infrastructure with less resources but greater demands.

All too often British justice neither performs its duty when it comes to punishment or the process of rehabilitation. Community based sentences have an appalling reputation here.


There was a victim of domestic abuse on the radio at the weekend and she told a wretchedly sad tale. Whilst pregnant with one of her first child she was beaten, to the extent that brain damage was caused and baby born prematurely. The violence toward her began after a year of marriage to her husband and was endured for 18 years. Her two sons once grown and married themselves went on to be abusive to their own wives, however they not able to face their mother with such and terrified that they were a repeat of their violent father, both hung themselves. Prior to his abuse toward someone he claimed to love, Alexa, the woman at the centre of if all, spoke that he was aggressive and violent to other men who so much a s looked at her. Alcohol was a key factor for him too, even with what seemed to be an inherently dangerous personality.

The era in which this primarily occurred was somewhat different today, refuges did not exist at all and the police merely shrugged their shoulders at any pleas for help, however I can’t but think there are some similarities with this case in Cornwall as far as the two men are concerned. I am not a doctor in the field but surely there are signs or indications if an individual was examined by a psychiatrist? It could become standard practice for such to occur in the event of a certain types of violent assault not related at the time to domestic abuse.

[sunnykerr]

For the most part, I think the rate of re-offense is an indictement of the prison system more than anything else.

Firstly, I believe that people who can't change should never go free. I don't believe that this would be the general population, but I recognize that there are people who probably will never change.

Secondly, I believe prison ought to be about rehabilitation. Indeed, we're in a period of really dire finances, and lord knows the prison system is low on the totem pole of social priorities. I'm just saying, you want to lower crime rates? De-incentivize the criminals from going back to a life of crime.

And, hey, there are no perfect systems. I know that. Even in Norway, where there's one of the lowest rates of recividism in the world, there still is a rate of recividism.

[Cristofle]

I'm not sure if this will turn out to be a crime but it SHOULD be- a police officer shoots and kills a dog after going to the wrong address:

Justice For Cisco: Austin Police Officer Fatally Shot Dog While Responding To Wrong House

There's a tape of the whole incident- the officer was at the very least totally out of line. He had a gun pointed at the man (when really, a tazor would have sufficed) and was insisting he both have his hands in the air AND restrain his dog (who was barking but not growling or making any snapping moves, it seems like) at the same time. Before the poor guy could even have time to restrain the dog, the officer shot and killed him. Somehow, I was not altogether surprised to see this happened in Texas.

This is one example of a more alarming trend of officers shooting and killing completely innocent "suspects".

Daily Kos: SHOOT THE INNOCENT "SUSPECT" is Growing Police Trend: Chicago Tribune Expose, Examples, Stats

[TheAngel]

I'm not going to lie, if that cop had killed my dog, I probably would have gotten the next bullet because I would have gone after him. I'm generally a pretty chill person but I can't imagine someone shooting my dog and knowing, in the back of my head, that he's never going to face any consequences. I feel so bad for that guy. His baby's been taken away from him and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. I have a lot of respect for most police officers but stories like this just make me sick.

[Nick HeyRee]

You'll have to allow for a cultural difference with two of my questions about the above incident, for as may be aware, British police are not routinely armed.

Is there no mandatory and perhaps independent investigation following the debatable and ultimately wrongful discharging of a firearm?

And am i the only one who is getting the vibe that this officer was a bit too eager to reach for his gun, even if he had arrived at the right destination? A couple involved in a fight...who knows what might have occurred.



Sunny, whilst i agree that rehabilitation should come into play, particularly when a clear route to release from prison is on the horizon, punsihment must manifest itself too surely?

[sunnykerr]

See, I'm not against punishment per se, but a person has to have an acceptance of the punishment for it to stick, no? I mean, it shouldn't be up to them, of course. But if the person feels that the only thing they did wrong was getting caught, then it doesn't matter what you do to them, all they're doing is bidding their time.

Which is why I feel like the rehabilitation part is more important. Besides, the emprisonment and inherent curtailing of normal freedoms and liberties is an inherent punishiment, I should think.

Maybe it's just me. But having to do my business in the open, having to shower in public, being told when to get up, where to go, what to eat, when to go to bed, and so forth... that'd be a punishing experience for me.

And the story about the cop killing the dog...

That, to me, is an abuse of power. I'd go too far if I were to say that it smells of sociopathy, since animal cruelty is one of the first signs of sociopathic development, but there's a devaluation of life here that I find appalling.

When you go to a house and you hold someone at gunpoint, how exactly do you expect the person's faithful pet to react?

But this is indeed in line with all the stories we hear about police officers shooting unarmed people who were going for their wallet or shooting kids in the back who were running away from them or killing innocent people for no good reason.

I've known nothing but good cops in my life, and I've known a fair amount, too. But it seems clear that it is one of those professions where the job and the power that comes with it can do funny things to a person's psyche. Because there's a lot of behaviour out there that is simply unacceptable. Just because we hand you a gun does not make you God.

[Cristofle]

It is mandatory for any officer who fired a weapon to go under review, but as you'll see in that second link where officers are more frequently killing innocent PEOPLE, that review often doesn't result in any punishments, let alone firing. I know police officers have very difficult jobs. I know they're risking their lives. I don't want to suggest that I don't grasp the magnitude of that or that I don't appreciate it, because I do. But at the same time, there is NO PLACE for trigger happy cops in our society.

And yes, I think he pulled his weapon too fast, especially since the only rumored weapon at the actual house he was supposed to be at was "beer" on the 911 call. It was the middle of the day- pepper spray or a tazor would have sufficed. Also, the chief has said this officer actually owns dogs, which W.T.F. Anyone with ANY knowledge about dogs knows that a barking dog is not necessarily an aggressive or violent dog, even if the dog is barking when they run up to you. You're pointing a gun at his owner, moron. Of course he's barking at you.

TheAngel, I was thinking the same thing. My dogs are usually leashed, but not always in my front yard because if I'm taking them on a drive to the bank or the curbside carryout or the dog park, it's an unnecessary hassle. If a cop came up and pointed a gun at me and started screaming at me, my dogs would bark and run too. And if that cop shot one of my dogs? Yeah, I'm thinking the next one would have been at me, because I would have gone nuts.