Crime News Thread #4 - "Crime takes but a moment, but justice an eternity."
 

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A follow-up to the Oklahoma story:

Why jump the gun and say the Tulsa shooting was a hate crime? Why not get all the facts or at least some of the facts before you automatically go with the hate crime claim?

The same could be said for the Zimmerman case. Didn't NBC try some race baiting by claiming that Zimmerman said something racist? And it turned out to be false and that an NBC producer was fired over it.

The media definitely likes racism and race wars. They like it because it draws viewers and makes ratings go up. That needs to be mentioned.

The NBC producer was fired for editing the 911 tape, not because Zimmerman needed any help in the area of suggesting he was racially profiling Trayvon- there is still plenty of evidence he might well have been doing that, including his long and proud history of calling 911 every time he saw a black man standing on the street in his neighborhood. There was also a black teenage boy in his neighborhood who said he knew to "stay away" from Zimmerman and that Zimmerman had once falsely accused his friend of stealing a bike. Not to mention, one of the pictures he originally posted on his new website was a message spray-painted on a wall saying something like "Go Zimmerman"- which was actually a hate crime committed against a black cultural center in Ohio.

As for the shootings in Tulsa, it's pretty hard not to notice everyone who was shot was black, in four separate locations. The odds of that being random are pretty much non-existent.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck... it doesn't even need to be nuclear to be a duck, ladies and gentlemen. :lol:

Anyway, it seems has though Zimmerman's lawyer has fired his client. Apparently, Mr Zimmerman has disregarded basic advice given to him by his representation, so the man couldn't in good professional conscience continue to represent him.

:violin:

Zimmerman has also launched a website on which people can donate money for his "living and legal expenses":

Now, I don't know what psychological state the guy is in... but in what world would doing that seem like the thing to do?

Zimmerman's not doing himself any favors here- his message is self-pitying to the extreme (and the huge American flag up top is hilarious) and everyone with an ounce of common sense regarding the US legal system knows that if they are likely to be charged with at least manslaughter then you don't directly contact the prosecutor without legal representation. Also, it was not the best idea for him to flee the state. Florida is a big state- he can hide in plenty of places from the Black Panthers. Fleeing without telling counsel or law enforcement where he is makes him look like a potential flight risk.

I just want the record to show that I have never shown support for Zimmerman or his cause. I think he should be locked away in a prison cell for a long long time. However, I laugh at people that want to jump the gun and start a fake race war over the incident without even knowing all the facts.


Not everything is about race or racism. That's the thing that people need to remember and realize.

Sometimes people just kill people for no reason. And sometimes people kill people because they are evil and just bad.


Hate crime legislation does more harm than good. It trivializes the victim. It means that people only care about the victim because the victim belong to a certain group and oppressed. And again, hate is not a crime or illegal. It is a feeling. Murder is a crime and illegal. Two different things. Hate is a feeling while murder is an action.

Hate is now a crime. That's the point. I don't always agree with how that law is applied. But I think it's a necessary evil, considering how many crimes are committed against certain demographics.

I'm so happy he's getting prosecuted:yay: I only hope they find him soon, so that he can be locked away.

And about hate crime legislation, that's a difficult question. On the one hand I totally agree that it can have its negative aspects. I hope all kinds of violent assault are criminal already, and the circumstances under which the crime was committed should be taken into account when the sentence is meted out. But to make hate itself a crime is mere thoughtcrime - to use the orwellian phrase. Feeling, thinking or talking a certain way should never be criminal in itself. Unless the the speech in question is threats or encouragement of violence.

And, as mentioned above, special rules for special parts of the population isn't all good in itself, since that might stereotype and stigmatize them. Every member of society needs to be treated the same, independent of their race, sex, religion, etc, with the same rights and obligations, and the same legal protection.

I do think that hate crime legislation is murky, but I also see why it's needed at this point in time. We are NOT past racism in this country, and I mean institutionalized racism. Closing our eyes and pretending we are won't make it go away. And the justice system is extremely unbalanced, and not in the favor of minorities.

:shrug:

Sure, hate crime is a murky concept, but motive for a crime has always been part and parcel of criminal prosecution.

I don't know the criminal system in the States, but here in Canada, there's a difference sentence for when the murder is cold and calculated and when it's something that happens either by supreme provocation (guy walks in on his wife and her lover, grabs his baseball bat, lover says "what, you gonna beat me with that?", guy proceeds to beat wife's lover to dead with said bat) or in the heat of the moment.

Someone who is known to carry prejudicial opinions about any visible minority is known to have such cockeyed ideas because they've got a history. It stands to reason, for me anyway, that even in the heat of the moment, those prejudices would be a factor in the actions of a person.

Look at Zimmerman (who's officially in jail, awaiting trial now). I'm pretty sure he didn't know who Trayvon Martin was before the night they met, so you can't argue that he went out there with the idea of killing him (or anyone) specifically.

But you look at his record of "neighbourhood watch" interventions, and a clear picture emerges. Going after people who walk around while black was Zimmerman's bugaboo. That tells you something about what likely motivated Zimmerman to pull the trigger on that baby-faced child.

I was very surprised that the prosecutor (who did a great job in the press conference) went for second degree murder- she strikes me as a smart and capable woman, so I'm just assuming she has plenty of evidence we're not privy to. I was thinking she'd go for manslaughter. Then again, if you can get enough expert testimony to reasonably prove that it was Trayvon screaming that night, and if his body indeed shows little to no defensive wounds that would be there if he'd beaten a man nearly to death, then it would seem to fall under the definition of second-degree murder, which is not pre-meditation but a depraved indifference to human life. Shooting a teenage boy who's screaming for help is pretty freakin' depraved.

I agree- Zimmerman's 911 log speaks for itself. We have to step back and ask ourselves how likely it is that Trayvon would be dead today if he were a white teenage boy. And let's face it- given that Zimmerman had no past of calling 911 on WHITE boys, or accusing white friends of his white teenage neighbors of stealing bicycles with no evidence (a report from a teenage boy in his neighborhood who "knew to stay away" from Zimmerman), it doesn't seem real likely. Now, that's not to say he was PRIMARILY motivated by race- clearly, this guy had an almost pathetic wannabe cop complex and several people have reported he's a control freak. However, I do think it's not an unreasonable leap to say he was racially profiling Trayvon to begin with. Do we really think a white kid who was walking on the sidewalk, talking to his girlfriend, would have been so suspicious to Zimmerman?

LMAO @ hate being a crime. If that's true, then every human on this planet is a criminal. That comment put a huge smile on my face. Just hilarious.

People are obsessed with making a race an issue in the Zimmerman case but why isn't anyone talking about the man's mental status? I'm not saying he is a victim of mental illness or is a victim of anything. I don't know much of the story but then again, who knows the whole story? From the very little that I do know about the case, it seems like Zimmerman may have had a taste for blood. When I say taste for blood, I'm talking about him getting a thrill out of the kill and acting on his own lust for blood.




Feelings, thoughts, and emotions are not illegal nor crimes. Actions can be crimes. Please remember the difference.
I know that none of you want to hear this and will bash me but a human being has the free will to be a racist or bigot if they choose to do so. You have no right or power to force them how to think and feel no matter how much their thinking rubs you the wrong way. If you support the force mentality, then you are no different than them.

I am not supporting or condoning racism or bigotry or prejudice. I am clearly saying that humans have the free will to think and feel however they choose to do so even if someone is offended or gets mad. That's a part of life. If you can't deal with that, then you need to simma down now.

I get kind of what you are saying. We should have the right to feel the way we want. It's how we behave. Is that close? I don't think thoughts and feelings that have been instilled in people since childhood are going to change for people. And I don't think you can really force people to think differently.

But at the same time, we need to as a society make it clear that those thoughts are not okay and acting on those thoughts is definitely not okay. If we say that it's okay to have thoughts that are racist, we are in a way condoning those thoughts. And if we do that, than people can argue that actions based on those thoughts are okay. Which is why we have to take a stand.

It's more about it being human nature than being a right in my opinion. It's how humans are. Humans are imperfect beings with feelings and thoughts.
I'm not saying that a racist person should go out in public and kill someone. I'm also not saying that a gay hater should go out and kill a homosexual.
I am just saying that it's impossible to monitor or know what goes on in other people's minds and hearts because we aren't them.

The best way to get people to not have bigotry and prejudice is to lead by example rather than use force.