sum1

(Mods feel free to close this if you want, just wanted to get this out there.)

Catholics ARE Christians and saying otherwise is highly offensive bigotry. Can we please not have insults like "Catholics aren't Christians" thrown around?

GhostWriter

Roman Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Just read the first sentence for crying out loud.

Jacob1983

Okay, I just want to clarify something. Some of my words on here got twisted around on here like they normally do but anyways. Catholics are Christians in the sense that they believe that Jesus is the savior and the son of God. I wasn't trying to say that Catholics were less than Christians or anything like that. I was just trying to point out that there are some differences between Christians and Catholics. Just want to make that known. I apologize to any Catholics on here. I wasn't trying to put them down or anything.

migamoo

Jacob, I still think you're confusing Catholicism with Protestantism. They are both branches of Christianity. Catholicism is a denomination just like Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, etc.

But yeah, I really don't see a point to this thread unless we want to turn it into a thread discussing how religion effects the world and it's politics.

Indian Summer

But being a "Christian" is a pretty vague term. There's going to be a thousand subdivisions of such a wide religion. For example, the polygamist Mormon practice is still a Mormon religion, although it's greatly butchered from what's considered "true" Mormon religion (what's practiced widely) and Mormons are a group of Christians. So technically, those polygamists are Christians, even if you might not agree with all their beliefs. They still meet the basic tenants of the religion (ie. belief in God & Jesus, understanding that no human is perfect and everyone will sin, etc.)

I don't know. It just seems incredibly bigoted to claim that because a religion isn't following the same exact beliefs you personally believe in, it's any less Christian.

Jacob1983

I will admit that it is confusing sometimes. I mean I do see that Catholics are Christians in the sense they believe in Jesus and that He is the savior but they have their own churches and rituals which are somewhat different from Christian churches and rituals.

Summer, I never once said that Catholics were less Christian. Seriously, what's your problem? What do you have against me? What did I do to you? Why do you continually harass me?

migamoo

Jacob, you'll find differences between all the denominations in Christianity. Baptists do not baptize infants, Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate holidays/birthdays, Catholics have patron saints. It doesn't mean that they are not all Christians. Also, all the denominations have their own "church." Again, doesn't make them anything less than a Christian.

Also, here's a list of Christian Denominations.

Indian Summer

No, Jacob, you claim Catholics aren't Christian, which is a step worse.

There aren't any steadfast "Christian churches and rituals." There's differences between Baptists and Lutherans and Methodists and Pentecostals. There's differences between Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic, and there's differences between Catholicism in general and Protestantism.

But all of those fall under the category of "Christian."

And Jacob, I suggest you don't take everything so personally. If you're going to get bent out of shape every time someone disagrees with your opinion, I don't think you'd ever be happy.

sum1

(bolding done by me)

Catholic churches and rituals are NOT different from Christian chruches and rituals, they are different from SOME Christian churches and rituals. Because there are different Christian denominations which have different practices. Catholic is one such CHRISTIAN denomination. To talk about Catholic chruches and rituals as being "different from Christian churches and rituals" is to imply Catholics aren't Christian. As if only non-Catholic Christians can be counted as true Christians.


(bolding done by me) Talking about "differences between Catholics and Christians" implies (again) that Catholics are not Christians. The differences are between different types of Christians, not between Catholics and Christians. Catholics are a type of Christian. The word "Christian" does not only refer to non-Catholic Christians.

Raonaild

What a weird thread.

Catholicism is the original Christian religion, which over the centuries through various schisms split into other sects when people disagreed with the Catholic way of doing things, for one reason or another.

I've been to the Vatican several times, and there is a wall there where the names of the leaders of the Catholic church are engraved, tracing all the way back to the Apostle Peter. You don't really get more Christian than that.

Maggie aka Sarah

Not all those who belong to the Christian faith would describe Catholicism as the original branch of Christianity.

Coptic Christians definitely have their own opinion on the matter.

Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And a lot of Protestant denominations believe that their form of worship is closer to want they think that Christ wanted.

Also, that the Pope recently declared that Protestant Churches are not true Christian churches didn't really go over all that well with a lot of people who happen to be Protestant.

Pope Benedict XVI reasserts other Christian denominations are not true churches

In my opinion, it's counter productive and divisive when any form of religion announces with great certainty that their particular form of religion is the only proper and correct form of worship.

From my point of view, the many different religions in this world all are ways to understand the mysterious universe that we live in... formatted to suit the myriad of different cultures that humanity has formed on this earth. And as cultures evolve, interact and change... so often does the forms of worship that people choose.... or not choose to follow. When any church or temple or mosque or whatever declares that they have the monopoly on spirituality, in my opinion, that is contrary to the reality that human beings have free will. Yes... choices that every one makes on such matters are often limited by culture and tradition... but even in the most oppressive cultures... everyone has the free will to decide want exactly their personal belief system is. Don't always have the right to safely voice their opinions though. Sigh.

Maggie

Dana_Lana

I don't see how anyone could say that Catholics are NOT Christians. I was born and raised strict Catholic and the #1 thing I was taught was that Jesus dies on the cross for our sins. THAT is a Christian.

Believing in Jesus Christ makes a person a Christian. period.

And there is some debate, but for the most part, most people believe that Catholicism started Christianity.

Maggie aka Sarah

As someone who was raised as a Protestant, I would venture to say that it's probable that most Catholics believe the Catholicism started Christianity. The majority of Protestants and Orthodox Chrisitians though... usually tend to have other opinions about the matter.

Any ways... Jesus was Jewish. It's difficult to know what his thoughts about the matter were. Is very possible that he just saw himself as someone who talked about issues of religion and belief systems and moral issues, etc.

Maggie

migamoo

I was raised Protestant myself but I still think Catholicism for the most part was the start of Christianity. Yes, the original Christians were Jewish, but it's from them that we got Catholicism and it eventually evolved into what we know today as Catholicism.

sum1

I think we should drop the whole matter of what was the original Christianity. For me it's Catholicism but I can understand other people disagreeing and it's potentially a very divisive topic. There's room for a lot of people to get offended.

As for anybody saying Protestant churches aren't Christian, I can certainly understand Protestants getting annoyed. Just like it's offensive to say Catholics aren't Christian. I don't think anybody should be saying any Christian church isn't Christian.

And you mention the Copts... there's an example of a church that isn't Catholic OR Protestant. There's plenty of that, which can easily be forgotten in discussion of Catholics and Protestants. For example, there's all those people who belong to the Eastern Orthodox church. They're not Catholic OR Protestant but they certainly are Christian.

The way it looks to me, this thing of referring to "Christians and Catholics" like Jacob did implies that only Protestants are Christians and that "Christian" means "Protestant", and that insults not only Catholics but also all those other churches that are neither Catholic nor Protestant.