News & Politics - Catholic probe to look at gays in seminaries

Ms Carolyn · 09-15-2005, 05:25 AM

This just in from Reuters -- an article just published in the NY Times.

Quote:

Catholic probe to look at gays in seminaries

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Catholic Church investigators tasked by the Vatican to review U.S. seminaries will be looking for "evidence of homosexuality" and for professors who dissent from Church teaching, the New York Times reported on Thursday.

The newspaper said a Vatican document prepared to guide the process and given to The New York Times by a priest, surfaces as Catholics await a Vatican ruling on whether homosexuals should be barred from the priesthood.

American seminaries are under review as a result of the sexual abuse scandal that swept the priesthood in 2002, the year the probe which is now starting was announced.

In a possible hint of the ruling's contents, the American archbishop supervising the seminary review said "anyone who has engaged in homosexual activity or has strong homosexual inclinations," should not be admitted to a seminary.

The Times said Edwin O'Brien, archbishop for the United States military who is supervising the seminary review, told The National Catholic Register that the restriction should apply even to those who have not been sexually active for a decade or more.

O'Brien was once the rector of the North American College, a seminary for Americans studying in Rome and has familiarity with both the Vatican and the U.S. Church.

The issue has been in the spotlight because a study commissioned by the Church found last year that about 80 percent of the young people victimized by priests were boys.

The seminary review, called an apostolic visitation, will send teams of American Church officials to the 229 seminaries, which have more than 4,500 students.

At each seminary, the visitors will conduct confidential interviews with faculty members and seminarians, plus everyone who graduated in the last three years, the Times said.

A document with instructions for the review is being distributed to seminarians and faculty members. It asks whether the doctrine on the priesthood presented by the seminary is "solidly based on the church's Magisterium," or teaching, and whether teachers and seminarians "accept this teaching."

The Times said among the other questions in the lengthy questionnaire are:

"Is there a clear process for removing from the seminary faculty members who dissent from the authoritative teaching of the church or whose conduct does not provide good example to future priests?"

"Is the seminary free from the influences of New Age and eclectic spirituality?"

"Do the seminarians or faculty members have concerns about the moral life of those living in the institution? (This question must be answered)."

"Is there evidence of homosexuality in the seminary? (This question must be answered)."

The questionnaire also asks whether faculty members "watch out for signs of particular friendships," the newspaper said.

I sense the teeth of that papal pitt bull, Ratzinger, in this one.

Oy, gevalt.

86amanda86 · 09-15-2005, 06:20 PM

I think its a good thing that they are looking. But you are right being gay does not make you a child molester, they should be looking at all of the men in the seminaries.

Erin · 09-15-2005, 10:02 PM

And how exactly does one test for homosexuality? Is there some kind of detector? Like at an airport? Do they have to pass some kind of test?

Help me out here, because I really would like to know exactly HOW they plan on doing this? Having them followed? Bugged? I get the backround check part, that should be done regardless.

mh67511 · 09-15-2005, 10:05 PM

This whole "evidence of homosexuality" seems a little fishy....what do they mean? Catching someone in the act or just "suspecting" it?

Maybe if they would just let priests get married, they wouldn't start doing deviant things to satisfy their sexual desires.

I'm not saying that married men never molest children, but I am sure that if someone had a sexual relationship with a wife, they might never even begin to think of deviant things like child molesting. I mean you don't hear about rampant child abuse/molest cases in any other denomiation (not to say it doesn't happen, but clearly not as widespread), and I believe Catholicism is the only mainstream deonmination that doesn't allow clergy to marry.

Ms Carolyn · 09-16-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh67511

I'm not saying that married men never molest children, but I am sure that if someone had a sexual relationship with a wife, they might never even begin to think of deviant things like child molesting. I mean you don't hear about rampant child abuse/molest cases in any other denomiation (not to say it doesn't happen, but clearly not as widespread), and I believe Catholicism is the only mainstream deonmination that doesn't allow clergy to marry.

Hmm ... considering the number of cases of men who molest their own children while mom sits by supposedly clueless, I'm not sure this is true.

I think that the way the Church used to screen applicants to become priests may have more to do with the problems that are surfacing now than anything else. Thing is, they DIDN'T screen for psychological normalacy (by "normal", I don't mean straight vs. gay, I mean "healthily aware and adjusted to one's sexuality no matter what it is"), just for a "religious vocation", and ended up with a lot of guys who were at best shockingly immature regarding their sexuality. Think about it -- most of the cases of child sexual abuse that are coming to light now have to do with older priests.

Celibacy can be a strong and healthy state, providing that the individual practicing it knows exactly what it is, what they're giving up, what the strains and stresses might be. Which is something they used to not teach. I think they're better now. I know that to enter a convent you get to do fun things like take the MMPI multiple times, and I suspect that young men entering the seminary do the same.

The thing is, homosexual men are likely to be drawn to the priesthood, not because they see it as a sexual buffet, but because they are men who are more comfortable living with other men. It doesn't mean that they're going to act out sexually, any more than straight priests are going to go looking for a convenient nun to have tumble with.

I have no idea where the Pope thinks U.S. priests are going to come from if they weed out all of the gay men. I think he's in for a very ugly shock.

**TheAngel** · 09-16-2005, 05:24 PM

The thing is, in the Catholic church, priests should be neither straight or gay, they should be asexual, for, while they may have a sexual preference, since they should never engage in sexual activities, it shouldn't matter. There are too many cases of child sexual abuse outside the church to say that molestation is caused by the vow of celibacy. I think that priests should have psychological evaluations, however, whether or not they are allowed to marry should not be an issue. While humans are sexual creatures it is an urge that can be supressed if you really want to do so. Many priests do, many are good, loving, kind people, but those that are not have given a false stereotype for the rest.

Ms Carolyn · 09-16-2005, 07:38 PM

There is no way a priest can be asexual, because human beings are sexual. You can be celibate, you can practice chastity, without denying that yes, you are a sexual being. To know that one is a sexual being and to have a mature understanding of that fact doesn't mean you have to act on it, all it does is give you the resources to consciously choose NOT to act on it. It's sort of like having a snake in the room -- if you have to have a snake in the room, you need to know where it is and what it is and what you should do to avoid having problems with it.

It's a mistaken notion that successful priests and nuns "suppress" their sexual urges, they just understand them and convert that energy into something else -- rather like sports figures who won't have sex the night before a big game because they want to use that energy for a different end. You can't have a kettle without some outlet for the steam. You just have to learn to use the energy for other things, but it's dangerous to not acknowledge where it comes from.

mh67511 · 09-16-2005, 09:21 PM

To be honest, I just don't like the Catholic Church as an organization.

86amanda86 · 09-16-2005, 10:42 PM

I can't say that I disagree.

dyxlecis gril · 09-16-2005, 11:43 PM

to be honest, i just don't like christianity as an organized religion. or, you know, at all really.

86amanda86 · 09-16-2005, 11:56 PM

I can understand why you wouldn't.

PassionWagon · 09-24-2005, 09:33 AM

Actually, if you're homosexual you're much less likely to be a child molester. Sorry to inform some of you, it was discovered that 90% of child molesters are in fact straight.

wanderer78 · 09-25-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PassionWagon

Actually, if you're homosexual you're much less likely to be a child molester. Sorry to inform some of you, it was discovered that 90% of child molesters are in fact straight.

I've heard something similar.

Plus, molesters were usually molested themselves, I believe. So a person's sexual preference has nothing to do with it.

Ms Carolyn · 09-28-2005, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer78

So a person's sexual preference has nothing to do with it.

Exactly. 90% of pedophiles are straight because 90% of the population is straight. Stands to reason.

Of course, in a country where science is subject to religious footnoting ("Intelligent Design", anyone?), it's not surprising that so many policies are based on feelings, not facts.

Samii · 10-02-2005, 02:22 AM

Quote:

I for one, don't like any form of organized religion. I've always held the opinion that organized religion is everything that is wrong with the world and always has been. I have no desire to participate in that kind of thing.

Amen! As far as I can tell it just serves to divide and cause friction. I for one think the world would be a much better place without organised religion.


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