[*Ledi*]

Originally Posted by Laurababora (View Post) Whoa, ok. I may be against the coalition but I'm in no way against our system. And I think its unfair to say that.

That wasn't necessarily directed at you, but a lot of people keep saying how it's un-Democratic, etc etc. This is how our system works, so I don't know why people feel as though their votes are being taken away by the coalition. It's as Democratic as Stephen Harper's minority government.

[Laurababora]

Oh ok. Cause I kind of thought it was. I hate how the internet can make people misinterpret others intentions.

I can't speak for all people who feel like their vote was taken away but as I've said in the past for me this is mostly a moral issue and an issue of timing. I get that its technically legal but I just can't get behind it. But I can see how other people would.

[stumps101]

Yeah while the move may be legal, it really doesn't fall under the democratic category for me.

[sm_love_dc]

I may be currently living in alberta but I am a British Columbian. I am from the middle of the province, where a conservative was voted in, but the NDP has the support of most of the mill workers and their families. The NDP does have the support of many of the countries unions, because they have a belief that only together we can get stronger. Something that I think the current conservative government is lacking. What may hold these citizens back from supporting the colation in non- urban, industry areas, is the Liberal party. Since Trudeau the Federal Liberals in most non-lower main land areas have not seen eye to eye. The coalition will have a tough sell in some areas of B.C.

Maybe it depends on who is elected leader of the Liberals?

[stumps101]

Yeah I think who's elected will make a big difference

[Raonaild]

I think the strongest argument against the coalition is the leadership of Dion. He's the main reason the Liberals are so weak right now. I was very happy to hear this weekend that the Liberals are trying to find a way to appoint or elect a new leader before Parliament is back in session, maybe even before Christmas.

One option would be for the Liberal caucus to appoint a new leader. Another option would be to some sort of early phone vote. A third option would be to appoint a neutral person who isn't running for the leadership at the next convention to lead in the meantime.

Personally, I think the easiest way to resolve this problem is for Bob Rae to withdraw his candidacy for the leadership and put his support behind Ignatieff, as Dominic LeBlanc is expected to do. If there is only one candidate, then that would greatly simplify this appointing/voting process, and the Liberals won't get torn apart by another divisive leadership race.

At this point, there are basically three ways Parliament will go in January:
1) Opposition parties back down and the budget passes.
2) Opposition parties vote non-confidence and there's a new election.
3) Opposition parties vote non-confidence and the coalition forms the government.

If the Liberal leadership isn't resolved by January, it would be suicide to risk #2, so they may fall back to #1 as they've been doing throughout the reign of the Conservative minority government. It also makes it less likely that #3 will succeed. If the leadership question is resolved, it makes #2 and #3 much more viable options.

[sunnykerr]

I think there's a reason the Liberals elected Dion their leader, and I think it has precisely to do with being weak for a while. It was the only way to get over the sponsorship scandal as quickly and as painlessly as possible.

Of course, I don't think anyone counted on this whole thing to blow up this early on in the game.

I think the Liberals are well on their way to electing Ignatieff. If it comes to an election, it may be a long-enough process that there's time to elect him in time for said election.

[*Dominique*]

I might have expressed myself wrongly for when it comes to the West vs Alberta. Sorry about that.

With Dion gone and Bob Rae not withdrawing his candidacy for the leadership, I wonder how the competition between Ignatieff and Rae will affect the Liberals. I wonder if a new leader will be ready in January and what it will mean for the coalition.

With the lowest % ever of people voting in the Quebec election last night, I could see people in Quebec not voting also if we get another federal election. I am not sure if a new election if the right choice but maybe the rest of the Canada would vote. As for Quebec, I have my doubts with the lowest % of people voting last night.

[Laurababora]

I have a question in regards to the Quebec election. I read that the Liberals won but did they get a minority or majority? I know that they were heading for a majority but did they get it?

[*Dominique*]

They got it. They needed 63 to get the majority and they got 66 so it is a small majority. Even if it is a small majority, the Liberals are safe for the next 4 years. They say they are happy with it but they were expecting a lot more and the polls were showing the PQ as not a big competition but they ended up getting more than expected. The big loser of the night is Mario Dumont who also said that he is leaving the ADQ and he won't be the leader come the next election.

[Laurababora]

Thanks for the info! Glad to know the Liberals got their majority.

[Raonaild]

Originally Posted by *Dominique* (View Post) They got it. They needed 63 to get the majority and they got 66 so it is a small majority. Even if it is a small majority, the Liberals are safe for the next 4 years.

More importantly, the country is safe from another Quebec referendum for the next 4 years.

I've always liked Jean Charest, even when he was the leader of the federal Progressive Conservative party. I was just thinking last night of the irony that Charest was once the leader of the same party (prior to the merger with Reform) that Harper leads now. Apparently during the Quebec election campaign, even Charest objected to Harper's BQ attacks, despite the fact that the PQ were his main rivals.

And it seems that some are blaming the better than expected performance of the PQ on Harper's attacks:

Separatist-bashing in Ottawa may have helped PQ

On the federal Liberal front, I read just now that Bob Rae has withdrawn from the leadership race:

Rae clears way for Ignatieff to take over Liberal helm

I think he's doing absolutely the right thing, and I respect him for doing it.

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) I think there's a reason the Liberals elected Dion their leader, and I think it has precisely to do with being weak for a while. It was the only way to get over the sponsorship scandal as quickly and as painlessly as possible.

I don't agree. Of Ignatieff, Rae and Dion, I believe only Dion was actually an MP with the federal Liberal party at the time of the sponsorship scandal, and even spoke at the Gomery Inquiry, so he had the most direct association with the scandal. Certainly, the Liberals were trying to get away from the scandal, but they didn't intentionally make themselves weak. They thought that their opposition status at the time of the last leadership convention was just a blip, that once they replaced Martin the sponsorship scandal would be behind them and they'd be back in government again.

[sunnykerr]

Well, it certainly makes more sense that the Liberals weren't trying to purposefully weaken themselves.

On the Quebec front, I think there's no doubt that Harper's blasting of the BQ participation in the coallition totally invigorated the PQ. Considering only 57% bothered to vote at all, I think there's also the fact that the ADQ was bound to take a hit. Last time, people voted en masse for them because the PQ was weak and people didn't want to vote for the Liberal, so the only option left was the ADQ. Two years later, the PQ has a decent leader and the ADQ has nothing to show for its time as the official opposition.

I'm personally relieved that we're now pretty much guaranteed peace in terms of referendums for the next four years. On the other hand, Charest was my representative at the national level before he switched to the PLQ and, after that, he was my representative at the provincial level till I moved to Montreal. So there are several reasons why I don't like him, I don't trust him, and I find him particularly loathesome. Not the least of which is how he tried to have a protected natural park sold to private interests for condo building in order to raise money. The fact that Couillard quit his post as Health minister also tells me that Charest has no intentions of doing what it takes to finally get the super hospital built in Montreal. Not to mention that he has yet to provide a conclusive program with regards to how he intends to address the nursing and GP shortages throughout the province and the fact that he has continually allowed hikes in prices for government-sponsored daycares and he cut $103 million in the financial aid programs for higher-education students.

And all of the this is without even mentionning how my hometown has gone from an economic centre to a virtual ghost town in the 20+ years we've been on his watch.

[*Dominique*]

I want to see how Charest will create jobs. I mean he promises that his way to face the recession is to create jobs but how? All I hear about is how people are being let go or how it is hard to find a job.

I don't think we really had good choices in this Quebec election and it explains why only 57% voted. That and the cold like Charest said... whatever. Forget that some people were just angry about this new election after the Federal one. I think people are looking for stability and Harper did help the PQ with his comments about the BQ and the coalition. I personally do not trust Charest so I am expecting him to fail once again. I also have a strong dislike for Michelle Courchesne who is in charge of our horrible school system. As someone who has worked until recently in the school system, I can clearly state that it is a mess and it really doesn't do anything good for the children. Even if he got his majority, things will be hard for him because some of his own team could turn on him as some do not like him really.

[sunnykerr]

Yup, Charest has pretty much established his records of making tall promises and never following through. Oh, well. At least it still means no referendums for the next few years.

On a different note, Ignatieff and Harper are set to meet and talk budget, right? I wonder what will come of that.