News & Politics - Bush signs terror interrogation (torture) law

TokyoNiGHTS · 10-17-2006, 12:05 PM

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WASHINGTON -
President Bush signed legislation Tuesday authorizing tough interrogation of terror suspects and smoothing the way for trials before military commissions, calling it a "vital tool" in the war against terrorism.

Bush's plan for treatment of the terror suspects became law just six weeks after he acknowledged that the
CIA had been secretly interrogating suspected terrorists overseas and pressed Congress to quickly give authority to try them in military commissions.

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A coalition of religious groups staged a protest against the bill outside the White House, shouting "Bush is the terrorist" and "Torture is a crime." About 15 of the protesters, standing in a light rain, refused orders to move. Police arrested them one by one.

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The president can now, with the approval of Congress, indefinitely hold people without charge, take away protections against horrific abuse, put people on trial based on hearsay evidence, authorize trials that can sentence people to death based on testimony literally beaten out of witnesses, and slam shut the courthouse door for habeas petitions," said ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero.

Bush signs terror interrogation law - Yahoo! News

So what can really be said? Our own president has just faught and won the rights to torture people. The samething we apparently removed Saddam from power so he couldn't do anymore.

Jacob1983 · 10-17-2006, 12:38 PM

Wouldn't you torture terrorists in order to get information? I mean what if they knew about another 9/11 type attack and the only you get could that info out of them was to torture them. In some cases, torture is necessary. Terrorists are not nice people btw.

TokyoNiGHTS · 10-17-2006, 01:18 PM

Ofcourse they're dangerous, everyone knows that. But do we need to go so low that we're now on the same level as the people we took out of power? Is that where this admisntration would like to be? We're suppose to be above all of this as a country. It's amazing and scary that we've gone frmo a country who's completely against torture and are actually jailing people who did it to prisoners, to passing a law to allow it to be done.

And this is going to make things even worse for our troops. Basically furthering their belief in America being what they think it is instead of what it really is. The violence is already horrific there and this isn't going to help it at all.

Jacob1983 · 10-17-2006, 01:42 PM

You didn't answer my question though. I asked if some terrorists who were detained and imprisoned and they knew info about an upcoming 9/11 type attack, would you torture them in order to get that info out of them? Sometimes you have to do questionable things for the greater good. That goes with war too. War is never pretty and innocent people are going to die but sometimes war is the only necessary thing.

TokyoNiGHTS · 10-17-2006, 01:57 PM

I'd prefer we not to. These are terrorists, people who're willing to take their own life for their cause. Not just that but not everyone imprisoned has info or has done anthing bad (like any place, there are innocent people imprisoned) what do you say to those people when they've been tortured for nothing? Sorry?

Again I can't believe people are in favor of this. In the country that prides itself on freedom and being superior to every other nation. Yet now we're a nation who've just endorsed torture.

Jacob1983 · 10-17-2006, 02:02 PM

So you would rather let another 9/11 type attack happen because you are against torture. That's bad. Sometimes bad things have to be done in order to stop something much more worse than happening.

vc318 · 10-17-2006, 02:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Jacob1983 (View Post)

Wouldn't you torture terrorists in order to get information? I mean what if they knew about another 9/11 type attack and the only you get could that info out of them was to torture them. In some cases, torture is necessary. Terrorists are not nice people btw.

What right does anybody have to torture anyone?! As much as we hate what happened with 9/11 and all, it doesn't help to respond to this or anything else with more violence. How is torturing okay in your book?

TokyoNiGHTS · 10-17-2006, 02:35 PM

I don't want another 9/11. No one does. But hasn't Bush made a big deal several times out of how they've stopped terrorist attacks since then? I don't recall any reports of torture techniques being used in the prevention of those supposed attacks. So its clear I think that it can be done without us having to become as low as the people we're trying to stop.

vc318 · 10-17-2006, 02:41 PM

Bush can sign all the papers he wants - he's never going to stop terrorism or catch Bin Laden.

**TheAngel** · 10-17-2006, 03:01 PM

You want to give people milk and cookies and ask them to tell you what they know. Very idealistic, not very practical however. Am I saying torture is good, God no, I'd never do such a thing. But it is necessary in the age we live in. Human intelligence collection, interrogation, is the most important espionage tool we possess. However, having said that, it's proven that psychological methods of torture are better than physical ones. So sleep deprevation, exposure to dark and bright lights, sensory deprevation and sensory assault, playing bad cop/good cop, all are more effective than beating someone. But it is necessary to gain information from human sources, and that's necessary. I'd love to believe that we can all hold hands and sing our little Kum Ba Yaya's out, but that's never going to happen. After all, could we have just asked Hitler not to invade Poland...wait, we tried that. Did we send a fruit basket?
I don't believe that people should be physically harmed, but I place my family and my friends above anything, myself included. And if their lives are under threat because of extremists that see us as bad people just because of our beliefs and plan to strap a bomb to their chest so they'll get their 72.4598 virgins in the afterlife, then I'll do whatever it takes to make sure that psycho meets his or her devil sooner than expected.

Papri · 10-17-2006, 03:08 PM

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Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post)

What right does anybody have to torture anyone?! As much as we hate what happened with 9/11 and all, it doesn't help to respond to this or anything else with more violence. How is torturing okay in your book?

I couldn't agree more. I think allowing torture of any kind is embarking on a seriously slippery slope to endangering ALL of our civil liberties, and I for one, am definitely not okay with that. I know some people are gonna be like "oh well, what about the lives of people that could be saved with that information, terrorists dont deserve civil rights.." etc etc. But if a state, ANY state has to resort to torture, then they can't call themselves a civilised state. Period. We slate Iraq and Pakistan and all kinds of other countries for allowing torture and capital punishment and so on, so how is this any better? Gitmo, anyone?!

vc318 · 10-17-2006, 03:10 PM

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And if their lives are under threat because of extremists that see us as bad people just because of our beliefs and plan to strap a bomb to their chest so they'll get their 72.4598 virgins in the afterlife, then I'll do whatever it takes to make sure that psycho meets his or her devil sooner than expected.

What? Where did you get this thing about 72 thousand virgins?

I'm not suggesting "milk and cookies" as you put it but they don't have to be dunked it a tub of volcanic lava either. If these terrorists don't care about crashing into a building what makes you think that a night light is going to scare them to death?

Papri · 10-17-2006, 03:17 PM

Also we need to view this in the wider context. Chances are that this law isn't gonna just be restricted to KNOWN terrorists - suspects will be tortured, some of whom may well be innocent. If a person can be interned for no apparent reason, they have no trial, there may not even be any proof on them....and yet it's legal and perfectly okay for the state to torture them to find out "information" they may not even possess? That is wrong on every level. And with this law being signed, I'll place money on the fact that it will happen more and more.

Also doesnt this go against a whole range of core American constitutional values? Right to a fair trial? Cruel and unusual punishments??

vc318 · 10-17-2006, 03:34 PM

You're right Papri. Even Castro has done some crazy stuff but he was entitled to a fair trial. You don't just go around threatening people. But that's what the U.S. is known for, I guess. Doesn't do anything but make more countries hate us.

Dana_Lana · 10-17-2006, 03:37 PM

I don't think innocent people should be tortured. Really I don't think anyone should be tortured.
But I could care less what happens to a terrorist. Care less.


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