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Old 04-11-2004, 07:09 PM
  #46
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Katis-thanks for editing the top post. I should've been more clear.
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Old 04-11-2004, 07:14 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by sum1:
<STRONG>

Furthermore, as regards the term "anti-American", it means "against America". If something said seems to be highly against America, I don't see how it makes sense to say we can't say so. Of course, it's true that people can be accused of making "anti-American" statements when they're not. That should be avoided.

I know how that would feel too, because, on a board I post on, a particular poster used to repeatedly accuse me of "France-bashing" whenever I made any criticism of France. No matter how many times I explained myself, they repeatedly accused me of prejudice and they told me that all my posts were "France bashing" (never mind that the majority of my posts had nothing to with France, let alone "France-bashing"). That's no more reasonable than people responding to any criticism of America with accusations of "anti-Americanism".
</STRONG>

Hee! You edited right after I posted, but I kinda knew you would bring up that subject. Hehe, seriously I would have been disappointed if you had not. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Actually I didn't call you France-basher. I said that you had a problem with France in general, always bringing up France as the counter-exemple of our arguments, calling us anti-semitic and racist people, hypocrit nation etc... I said there had been France-bashing before that (after the heat wave), but I wasn't mentioning you.
That said, I feel that words might have been harsher that I had thought, but it's hard to know when caught in a personal fight. Doesn't mean it's right, though.
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Old 04-11-2004, 07:49 PM
  #48
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Shoot, I managed to miss another post.

Quote:
Posted by Sum1 :

I think something needs to be clarified here. Stella, I think you misunderstand Abducted. I don't think he's making assumptions. I think he's talking about actual people he knows about. Certainly, I know people who could fit the description he gives, people who've done and felt as he describes. In that case, maybe he shouldn't have used the word "perhaps", but I think that may have been just a figure of speech.

Sum1 I don't think I misunderstood AB. I'm sure he knows lots of people who were disgusted by the way we treated them. Just as I know lots of people who were disgusted by the Republicans aswell. I also know a big majority who are scared to death by both parties and who won't dare to post here, even if they are paid. But what's the point of bringing that up if not to hurt someone's feelings?
The assumptions he made were that the board was quite inactive now because mainly of us. And our disgusting way. And our bigotry. One assumption and two insults.
Gee, that's so easy to blame the other people, and expect them not to be offended. You know, if everyone was saying the same thing in every debate here, I think this board will turn into Iraq II.
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Old 04-11-2004, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellaSlight (View Post)
I said that you had a problem with France in general, always bringing up France as the counter-exemple of our arguments, calling us anti-semitic and racist people, hypocrit nation etc...
I never said the French were an anti-semitic racist people, I just mentioned the racism/anti-semitism problem that there is in France. I addressed the problem the nation has, I didn't say anything about the French people. And I never called France a hypocrite nation. And I didn't "always" bring up France as a counter example -in our discussions about France France was always in the discussion before I brought it up. I never brought it up when somebody else hadn't already brought it up.
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Old 04-11-2004, 08:25 PM
  #50
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Sum1 looks like our memories aren't the same, because I remember your harsh words on France in general and the fact that you brought up all the subject of anti-semitism and racism in France (plus the Crusades!) in the thread about Iraq. So I don't think you can possibly argue that it was relevant.

I'm not interested in reminiscing our past conflicts either so I'll drop the suject. Let's agree that you're not a French-hater, nor am I a 'democracy-hater'.
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Old 04-11-2004, 08:58 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by StellaSlight:
<STRONG>Sum1 looks like our memories aren't the same, because I remember your harsh words on France in general and the fact that you brought up all the subject of anti-semitism and racism in France (plus the Crusades!) in the thread about Iraq. So I don't think you can possibly argue that it was relevant.</STRONG>
You say you remember my "harsh words on France in general"? Well, then I think you remember wrongly. But then it always seemed to me you misunderstood my posts when France was involved. As for the subjects I brought up, I felt they were relevant to where the discussion was going at that point (plus to the bigger picture and historical background). Also, that wasn't a thread about Iraq, it was a thread about nations (such as France and Germany) agreeing to a greater degree of cooperation with the US over Iraq. France was part of the discussion from the beginning (and the discussion then wandered). Nor was that thread our most significant conflict over France. A lot of the trouble you gave me happened elsewhere.
Quote:
Originally posted by StellaSlight:
<STRONG>I'm not interested in reminiscing our past conflicts either so I'll drop the suject. Let's agree that you're not a French-hater, nor am I a 'democracy-hater'.</STRONG>
I'm glad you're not interested in reminiscing our past conflicts. Nor am I. But we seem to be reminiscing them anyway. But I've never called you "democracy-hater" and I don't intend to.

[ 04-11-2004: Message edited sum1 ]
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Old 04-11-2004, 09:36 PM
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huh? I am totally confused... I never mentioned Jews in my post or anything.... so I don't know why some of you turned it into that? [img]smilies/look.gif[/img]
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Old 04-11-2004, 09:57 PM
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I think it would be a wise suggestion to get back on track. This thread has veered way off course.
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Old 04-11-2004, 10:02 PM
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Sum1, you always contradict yourself. I thought you wanted to let go?

I'm not even replying to your post, and will go back on topic since now.
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Old 04-11-2004, 10:33 PM
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[ 04-11-2004: Message edited Enigma, I.C. ]
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Old 04-11-2004, 10:54 PM
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Um...I think that's sarcasm?
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Old 04-11-2004, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Katis:
<STRONG>Um...I think that's sarcasm?</STRONG>
My bad [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]. This is what you get for being up late working on a critique of someone else's 14 page paper [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 04-11-2004, 11:41 PM
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It took me a couple of reads to figure it out too [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] Though it may not be that person that was being sarcastic, but wherever they got it from and they got duped into thinking it was real as well.
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Old 04-12-2004, 01:22 PM
  #59
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No allegation, no matter how unreasonable, can be called absurd?

No allegation, no matter how obviously untrue, no matter how bigoted the origin, no matter how clearly calculated to result in violence, can be described as anti-American or anti-Semitic?

Offering an alternative explanation of the behaviour of people whose real motivations nobody knows for sure is "making assumptions?"

There seems to be no room left for debate. Certainly I will not treat conspiracy theories that the US knowingly allowed Sept 11th as legitimate or reasonable points of view. They are neither.
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Old 04-12-2004, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by *Ledi*:
<STRONG>huh? I am totally confused... I never mentioned Jews in my post or anything.... so I don't know why some of you turned it into that? [img]smilies/look.gif[/img]</STRONG>
What you brought up is an anti-Semitic myth in distorted form.

We thought you'd like to know, so you don't repeat it to people who might not realize that you aren't aware of the origins of this story.

Nobody "turned it into" anything... that is exactly what you brought up.
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