[ceilirose]

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) Yeah, but I still consider them the lesser of the two evils. Until O'Reilley is off that station, I could never watch Fox News.

O'Reilly and Hannity - I don't know which one is worse sometimes.

[sunnykerr]

I'm just glad I don't have to put up with either one of them.

[vc318]

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) O'Reilly and Hannity - I don't know which one is worse sometimes.

Ugh, I know.

Well, the official progress report on President Obama has been released regarding his 200 days in office:

The 44th President: The First Year - Progress Report - from CNN.com

Wow. After 100 days in office President Obama was at 75 percent and now 200 days later and he's sitting at 56 percent. Should we really trust these percentages? I know people aren't satisfied with his healthcare reform but this is a huge drop, right?

[sunnykerr]

Don't trust polls. You never know what the question was. And the results can be skewed any which way you want.

I got a book of Top 10s recently. All kinds of top tens. Anyway, who's the American president who had the highest approval rate in the history of the U.S.? George W. Bush on September 12, 2001.

Don't trust the numbers.

[vc318]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) Don't trust polls. You never know what the question was. And the results can be skewed any which way you want.

Well, I have a feeling that his rating is somewhat down to what it was 100 days ago but not that way down. Did you see the mob of people attacking his healthcare plan at the townhall meeting yesterday? Yikes.

I got a book of Top 10s recently. All kinds of top tens. Anyway, who's the American president who had the highest approval rate in the history of the U.S.? George W. Bush on September 12, 2001.

Well sure, it was the day after the 9/11 attack and Bush took advantage of the situation to start a war so I can understand with the raw emotions that people were feeling that his ratings would shoot through the roof.

[sunnykerr]

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) Well, I have a feeling that his rating is somewhat down to what it was 100 days ago but not that way down. Did you see the mob of people attacking his healthcare plan at the townhall meeting yesterday? Yikes.

Yeah, I seriously don't understand why people are so against making things better. I mean, unless it's one of those things like when people thought Saddam Hussein was even remotely connected to the September 11 attacks. I don't really understand how it happens, but there seems to be mass misinformation going around in the States at times and, even worse, people seem to buy into it a lot.

Do you think it would reassure these people to find out that the reason Obama can even tackle health-care reform (which is something Clinton wanted to do but couldn't due to Bush Sr's Administration implementing the Pay-As-You-Go restrictions on new spending bills) is because Bush Jr laid waste to those regulations and never, in his 8-year run, turned down a single spending bill?

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) Well sure, it was the day after the 9/11 attack and Bush took advantage of the situation to start a war so I can understand with the raw emotions that people were feeling that his ratings would shoot through the roof.

Exactly. In the days after the September 11 attacks, Bush took every opportunity to scare the crap out of everyone. And that leads to people following anything that resembles leadership, even if it's just pathetic war mongering.

[vc318]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) Yeah, I seriously don't understand why people are so against making things better. I mean, unless it's one of those things like when people thought Saddam Hussein was even remotely connected to the September 11 attacks. I don't really understand how it happens, but there seems to be mass misinformation going around in the States at times and, even worse, people seem to buy into it a lot.

It is very much criminal the number of children let alone adults who are sitting without healthcare coverage (trust me - I see it daily as I work in school) but the part I'm worried about it is the quality of healthcare service that will be provided under Obama's plan. I mean, when I think about the hell that people are put through just to get Food Stamps or WIC or the way you're made to feel when you apply for these sort of things (are you poor enough) or the fact that the quality of the service given under these programs just has me worried. Why would doctors be any nicer to their patients or work any harder for them to come through their office if the government was paying them to handle your care? That's the part I'm worried about, I can't speak for other places, but anything provided by the government here in the U.S. is just downright despicable. Sadly, money talks - if you've got it then you can expect to be treated better just about anywhere. Can Obama really control that if his plan goes through?

[ceilirose]

Actually Medicare works pretty well. You're not denied treatment for a pre-existing condition, you can see the doctor of your choice, tests aren't denied because it will lose someone money. There are options where you can get supplemental covereage at pretty reasonable rates.

These people who are ranting and raving about "socialized" medicine and whatever must have never had any sort of interaction with private insurance companies. Talk about getting lost in voice mail hell - they define it.

People are so worried about the government handling their insurance but the insurance companie are horrible to work with. Care is being rationed now. My premium just went up about 10% and the benefits aren't any better.

These people in the town meetings are more upset with Obama being President than with health care reform.

[PncsKate24]

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Actually Medicare works pretty well.

And is on it's way to becoming bankrupt like Social Security and the Postal Service.

While I many not be ranting and raving, about socialized medicine, I still have my doubts on how effective a public option plan will be. I can just go to my local DMV to see the lines and red tape and fees, fines, etc. that needs to be done. People alre already waiting hours in an ER, how much will that go up if more people go to the hospital?

When my father lost his job, we lost health benifits, you know what we did? We never went to the doctor excpet for physicals. Thankfully nothing serious went wrong during that time, but that's what A LOT of people without health insurance do. They stay home from the hospitals.

I'm also worried about fitting the bill for those 40+ million who can't pay the full bill. Medicare/Medicaid as it works now only pay a portion of the bill. Those than can afford medical care on their own or through personal insurance plans pay the rest in higher premiums, co pays, etc. <--That's something that I don't like. It's already bad enough that people's health care costs off set the raises that they get per year, imagine how much that will be when even more people are added to the system.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) People are so worried about the government handling their insurance but the insurance companie are horrible to work with. Care is being rationed now. My premium just went up about 10% and the benefits aren't any better.

Then maybe instead of creating a larger program that may or may not work, how about the government steps in to regulate the current program so that this sort of thing dosnt continue to happen. They were working on that with the credit card companies when they just kept raising interest rates, why not apply that same logic to the health care problem?

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) These people in the town meetings are more upset with Obama being President than with health care reform.

These types of comments upset me. These people are not out there because they don't like Obama. They are out there because they don't like what is going on period. Is ANY politician getting a nice reception when they went home over break? Could it be that Americans are fed up with the system in general?

I'm upset the most with the fact that the elected officals are trying to sell us a health care plan that hasn't even been written! Nothing was passed in either the House or the Senate. People are reacting to all the various different plans that were being thrown around in July. That's a cause of the confusion. Too many possible bills to keep straight. Too many possibilities that have been discussed.

[ceilirose]

Originally Posted by PncsKate24 (View Post) And is on it's way to becoming bankrupt like Social Security and the Postal Service.

Absolutely and the Administration and Congress have to clean up the budget problems from the last eight years. Not funding Iraq will help and I know this won’t be popular but they may have to roll back the tax cuts for those who make over $250,000.00 to the Clinton levels. The money we wasted in Iraq (which was never reflected in the annual budget) and giving the wealthy tax breaks was a huge colossal mistake.

The Postal Service is a quasi-Government agency. The internet, e-mails and electronic money transfers are what’s killing them. They are having a hard time keeping up.

While I many not be ranting and raving, about socialized medicine, I still have my doubts on how effective a public option plan will be. I can just go to my local DMV to see the lines and red tape and fees, fines, etc. that needs to be done. People are already waiting hours in an ER, how much will that go up if more people go to the hospital?

Part of the reason for long lines at government agencies are the budget cutbacks. Again I can renew my driver’s license on line and can pay my registration fees the same way. See a later answer of mine on this subject but when medical costs are under control (a big if) then maybe Emergency Rooms can really be a place where you go for emergencies and not for a sore throat.

When my father lost his job, we lost health benifits, you know what we did? We never went to the doctor excpet for physicals. Thankfully nothing serious went wrong during that time, but that's what A LOT of people without health insurance do. They stay home from the hospitals.

When I didn’t have health insurance I couldn’t even afford a physical. When I did have health insurance and broke my leg I couldn’t even get a bed in the emergency room because people who had colds, upset stomachs etc. were there first, didn’t have insurance and needed help. Maybe if we had affordable care they could go to own regular doctor or clinic and keep the emergency open for emergencies.

I'm also worried about fitting the bill for those 40+ million who can't pay the full bill. Medicare/Medicaid as it works now only pay a portion of the bill. Those than can afford medical care on their own or through personal insurance plans pay the rest in higher premiums, co pays, etc. <--That's something that I don't like. It's already bad enough that people's health care costs off set the raises that they get per year, imagine how much that will be when even more people are added to the system.

Who gets raises anymore? The reasons that costs are going up is that private industries provide health insurance and they are for profit. I don’t think my premium increases are going to doctors and nurses. It’s going for administrative costs and salaries for the most part. I can’t remember the percentage exactly but our health care dollar is eaten up by administrative costs – not actual health care.

Then maybe instead of creating a larger program that may or may not work, how about the government steps in to regulate the current program so that this sort of thing dosnt continue to happen. They were working on that with the credit card companies when they just kept raising interest rates, why not apply that same logic to the health care problem?

That may be an option but the bill to control the credit card companies is a bust as far as I’m concerned. I’ve had a card for 20 years and now because my balance is low they are raising my interest rate. If I don’t like it I can cancel it. I don’t think that’s so great.

The problem is and will be the special interests and the lobbyists who give donations to politicians and expect something back in return. It goes across party lines and that’s why banks, pharmaceutical companies and health care companies hold so much sway.

These types of comments upset me. These people are not out there because they don't like Obama. They are out there because they don't like what is going on period. Is ANY politician getting a nice reception when they went home over break? Could it be that Americans are fed up with the system in general?

Some have been civil. What I’ve seen in these town halls that have had disruptions pisses me off quite frankly. You don’t have to yell and scream and call people names to get your point across. Their complaints are so across the spectrum that some of them don’t even make any sense. So – yeah – some need to stop acting like 6 year olds and start acting like adults. They have the right to be upset but they don’t have the right to take over these meetings like angry mobs and deprive others of having a civil conversation. In some cases that is what’s happening and because the comments are all over the place – Nazi’s, Communists, Socialists, etc. - I do stand by my comment that most are mad at Obama and what they perceive him to be doing.

A lot of it’s ideological too – I’ve thought the country has been swirling around the drain the last eight years. I’m not 100% thrilled right now but I know that if they don’t control health care costs then we’re in for more trouble ahead.

I'm upset the most with the fact that the elected officals are trying to sell us a health care plan that hasn't even been written! Nothing was passed in either the House or the Senate. People are reacting to all the various different plans that were being thrown around in July. That's a cause of the confusion. Too many possible bills to keep straight. Too many possibilities that have been discussed.

No one is saying that health care reform is or will be easy. The process that they’re doing now in Congress is trying to come up with a bill that will please everyone to some extent and compromises will have to be made. Different committees have different ideas and constituents they need to appease.

Nothing was passed in the House or Senate because some are too interested in political agendas and the election in 2010 and 2012 and the process got stopped. It’s pure politics and they don’t have the best interest of the American people at heart.

The reason for the town halls is to discuss the bills that are now in Congress. To discuss them civilly and to help people make a decision. That’s simply not happening in some cases. When people are being called liars, socialists, fascists etc. etc. and the people who want to discuss the bill are not even allowed to talk – it’s wrong and intimidation.

Also from the scenes I’ve seen on TV and the internet – none of these angry people have offered any constructive alternatives other than to say they’re scared and/or angry.

[sunnykerr]

Well, I'm Canadian, so I can bear witness to one form of universal health are. It's true, if you go to an emergency room, there will be waits - especially if you come in with a cough and other people are coming in with broken legs and bleeding wounds. It's called triage.

It's not perfect. It is a pain in the rump. And there are doctor and nurse shortages.

But I have to believe that the absence of insurance paperwork to be filled each and every time speeds things up for us. And there is something to be said for the fact that we don't pay anything for the very best care available. Our health is treated as a right and not as a commodity.

Financially, I can't really speak to how it would be for the States, because Obama isn't talking about putting everyone under a pseudo-universal-health-care system. He's talking about giving the option to people who would like to have it. So, while every Canadian in the land is insured socially, not all Americans would be supported by this kind of health-care system, since presumably some would prefer their own insurance packages.

I do know that supporting our population hasn't bankrupted us yet. (Though that may change as our population changes.) I can't see how the same wouldn't apply to the States. Yes, there are exponentially more of you, but so are there exponentially more taxpayers to contribute to such a system.

More importantly, I would assume that, when everyone has access to decent health care, the population at large will be healthier, more productive and generally better off.

[PncsKate24]

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Absolutely and the Administration and Congress have to clean up the budget problems from the last eight years. Not funding Iraq will help and I know this won’t be popular but they may have to roll back the tax cuts for those who make over $250,000.00 to the Clinton levels. The money we wasted in Iraq (which was never reflected in the annual budget) and giving the wealthy tax breaks was a huge colossal mistake.

Last time I checked it was under Pbama that our budget went into the Trillions of dollars. I know that Iraq was expensive, and I'm not going to try to defend the decision, but it was made, we fought/continue to fight there, so we have to suck it up and it's Obama's turn to deal with it. We can't keep rehasing the mistakes of 8 years ago. There done. Move on. We need to fix what we can NOW.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) The Postal Service is a quasi-Government agency. The internet, e-mails and electronic money transfers are what’s killing them. They are having a hard time keeping up.

Exactly my point. The government program is struggling. Go figure.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Part of the reason for long lines at government agencies are the budget cutbacks. Again I can renew my driver’s license on line and can pay my registration fees the same way. See a later answer of mine on this subject but when medical costs are under control (a big if) then maybe Emergency Rooms can really be a place where you go for emergencies and not for a sore throat.

But if you add another 40 million people to the lines that already exist now, you'll get longer lines. You'll start to see "classes" form in the emergency room, those who don't have insurance at the bottom, followed by government insured in the middle, and those with private insurance getting first dibs. With the added amount of stress those extra people will be to the heath industry there will be shortages, long lines, and long waits for tests.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Maybe if we had affordable care they could go to own regular doctor or clinic and keep the emergency open for emergencies....Who gets raises anymore? The reasons that costs are going up is that private industries provide health insurance and they are for profit. I don’t think my premium increases are going to doctors and nurses. It’s going for administrative costs and salaries for the most part. I can’t remember the percentage exactly but our health care dollar is eaten up by administrative costs – not actual health care.

I combined these two because I think that we are in agreement here. I agree with you that the insurance companies are a LARGE part of the problem. But if people begin to suggest we do away with them completley, you'll see a whole new uproar of name calling and people afraid of losing the capitalist/competition/free market. <--Those would be some real interesting townhall meetings.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) That may be an option but the bill to control the credit card companies is a bust as far as I’m concerned.

Thank you for proving my point. The government tried to step in and failed. I think that it was a nice idea, hence the reason for why I initally brought it up, but it didn't work. But here is the kicker you don't have to worry about interest rates AT ALL if you pay your bills on time. My rates keep going up, but it's not a problem for me.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) The problem is and will be the special interests and the lobbyists who give donations to politicians and expect something back in return. It goes across party lines and that’s why banks, pharmaceutical companies and health care companies hold so much sway.

AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Some have been civil. What I’ve seen in these town halls that have had disruptions pisses me off quite frankly. You don’t have to yell and scream and call people names to get your point across. Their complaints are so across the spectrum that some of them don’t even make any sense. So – yeah – some need to stop acting like 6 year olds and start acting like adults. They have the right to be upset but they don’t have the right to take over these meetings like angry mobs and deprive others of having a civil conversation. In some cases that is what’s happening and because the comments are all over the place – Nazi’s, Communists, Socialists, etc. - I do stand by my comment that most are mad at Obama and what they perceive him to be doing.

And I agree that people need to act like adults. But did it ever occur to you that the media outlets only show the more interesting town hall meetings? What kind of news story would it be if you just watched a room full of people walk up to a microphone, ask their question, get a reponse then sit down? There's a saying in the media business: If it bleeds it leads... That's why I don't watch the news. Too much depressing/angering/frustrating stories. It's as if nothing good EVER happens ANYWHERE.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Nothing was passed in the House or Senate because some are too interested in political agendas and the election in 2010 and 2012 and the process got stopped. It’s pure politics and they don’t have the best interest of the American people at heart.

Oh they have the American people at heart, it's just that this country is so divided (Obama only got 52% of the popular vote remember) that it's all about politics. They are so many people to please that it can't possibly be done. The House gets elected every two years, so of course they are going to start thinking about re-election since now is when people are throwing their hats into the ring to run. This vote on Heath Care will make or break a lot of people.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Also from the scenes I’ve seen on TV and the internet – none of these angry people have offered any constructive alternatives other than to say they’re scared and/or angry.

It's hard to provide alternatives when you don't know which bill is being talked about. There are too many bills out there, some have some good provisions, others don't. Some of the constructive alternatives have been to not make the problem any worse than it is, add some incentive for "green" offices to allow for the sharing of patient information between doctors, find ways to prevent defensive medicine so that patients don't need tests done multiple times, don't include anything dealing with abortion or euthanasia <--those are state issues), add incentives for people to go into the medical field despite the fact that the government will not pay the medicals bills in full, or the most popular one, don't get the government involved any more than they are.

[ceilirose]

Originally Posted by PncsKate24 (View Post) Last time I checked it was under Pbama that our budget went into the Trillions of dollars. I know that Iraq was expensive, and I'm not going to try to defend the decision, but it was made, we fought/continue to fight there, so we have to suck it up and it's Obama's turn to deal with it. We can't keep rehasing the mistakes of 8 years ago. There done. Move on. We need to fix what we can NOW.

You can't deny history. Bush took office with a budget surplus of about 130 billion. When he left office there was a deficit of about 500 billion. Lessons are learned from past mistakes and examining them and not ignoring them and justifying them.

I've asked this question before (and I don't know if you were a Bush supporter) but where was all this concern when Bush was spending like crazy? Now that Obama has to clean up this mess we all must be concerned about the deficit.

I don't like adding to the deficit but at this point the only entity that has money to stimulate jobs is the government. More tax cuts to the rich isn't going to do it.

Exactly my point. The government program is struggling. Go figure.

Not exactly - the USPS isn't a true government agency. They're being out paced because of technology and other courier services. My point is that government run entities aren't always going to beat private enterprises. Which is another thing we're all supposed to be afraid of.

But if you add another 40 million people to the lines that already exist now, you'll get longer lines. You'll start to see "classes" form in the emergency room, those who don't have insurance at the bottom, followed by government insured in the middle, and those with private insurance getting first dibs. With the added amount of stress those extra people will be to the heath industry there will be shortages, long lines, and long waits for tests.

We already have this. The rich in this country don't have to worry about a thing. They have the best health care in the country. Like sunnykerr said - health care shouldn't be a commodity that goes to the richest person in the room. Well she didn't say that exactly but that's what I got out of it.

I combined these two because I think that we are in agreement here. I agree with you that the insurance companies are a LARGE part of the problem. But if people begin to suggest we do away with them completley, you'll see a whole new uproar of name calling and people afraid of losing the capitalist/competition/free market. <--Those would be some real interesting townhall meetings.

Why are the private companies afraid of competiton? Maybe they will have to become competitive to survive. Who says they can't?

Thank you for proving my point. The government tried to step in and failed. I think that it was a nice idea, hence the reason for why I initally brought it up, but it didn't work. But here is the kicker you don't have to worry about interest rates AT ALL if you pay your bills on time. My rates keep going up, but it's not a problem for me.

Not exactly - they are changing the rules but it doesn't go into effect until November. I know that you don't get charged interest if you pay in full. I also know what it's like to have life throw you curves and you have to deal with emergencies and don't have an extra thousand or two or three hanging around. You should hope that it never becomes a problem for you but some of us aren't so fortunate.

And I agree that people need to act like adults. But did it ever occur to you that the media outlets only show the more interesting town hall meetings? What kind of news story would it be if you just watched a room full of people walk up to a microphone, ask their question, get a reponse then sit down? There's a saying in the media business: If it bleeds it leads... That's why I don't watch the news. Too much depressing/angering/frustrating stories. It's as if nothing good EVER happens ANYWHERE.

Of course some meeting are going well but the people who are behaving badly are driving the story. Health care reform can be hurt by this minority who have really strong vocal chords and not much other constructive ideas.

Oh they have the American people at heart, it's just that this country is so divided (Obama only got 52% of the popular vote remember) that it's all about politics. They are so many people to please that it can't possibly be done. The House gets elected every two years, so of course they are going to start thinking about re-election since now is when people are throwing their hats into the ring to run. This vote on Heath Care will make or break a lot of people.

No - some of these Congressman and women who are against the public option come from the poorest sections of the country. What are they doing for their constituents? They care about their political ideology, their big donors and 2010. That goes for both parties.

Obama getting the 52% of the popular vote - well what does that mean? It's no secret that this country is divided. We had a President who didn't win the popular vote for 4 years and I was told time and time again (even here) that it wasn't relevant.

It's hard to provide alternatives when you don't know which bill is being talked about. There are too many bills out there, some have some good provisions, others don't. Some of the constructive alternatives have been to not make the problem any worse than it is, add some incentive for "green" offices to allow for the sharing of patient information between doctors, find ways to prevent defensive medicine so that patients don't need tests done multiple times, don't include anything dealing with abortion or euthanasia <--those are state issues), add incentives for people to go into the medical field despite the fact that the government will not pay the medicals bills in full, or the most popular one, don't get the government involved any more than they are.

But it's up to us as citizens to be informed to the best of our abilities. Saying it's too much, too hard, I can't deal with it aren't good excuses.

Those are some good suggestions but I'm pro-choice and I think abortion should be covered. I live in the real world and there's no way in the world it will happen.

Euthanasia (and it's inclusion) is a lie that's being repeated as the truth. Palin should have kept her mouth shut on that but well....

Most Americans want some type of health care reform - doing nothing will really harm us all.

[PncsKate24]

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) You can't deny history. Bush took office with a budget surplus of about 130 billion. When he left office there was a deficit of about 500 billion. Lessons are learned from past mistakes and examining them and not ignoring them and justifying them. I've asked this question before (and I don't know if you were a Bush supporter) but where was all this concern when Bush was spending like crazy? Now that Obama has to clean up this mess we all must be concerned about the deficit.

Obama sure learned well then y putting our budget into the Trillions of dollars. Throwing more money at the problem won't fix things. How come Washington was asking us Americans to balance budgets, spend on ly on what we could afford, and pay our bills, WHEN THEY CAN'T DO THE SAME THING?

I'm not denying history. I know that Bush overspent A LOT. The reason why there wasn't so much outrage, is that from 2001-about 2003 (lets say) people actually agreed with the war in Iraq. It wasn't until his second term that it began to become and issue, and by that point Congress voted to keep spending on it. Congress could have had the balls to get out of Iraq sooner, but kept funding it. WHY?

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) I don't like adding to the deficit but at this point the only entity that has money to stimulate jobs is the government. More tax cuts to the rich isn't going to do it.

60% of our economy is based on consumer spending. It's US that drives the economy. It won't help things if the government creates jobs under a program that consumers don't "buy" into.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Not exactly - the USPS isn't a true government agency. They're being out paced because of technology and other courier services.

It IS a government agency. How is it not? IT'S fully funded and run and employed by government agencies.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) My point is that government run entities aren't always going to beat private enterprises. Which is another thing we're all supposed to be afraid of.

Obama himself brought up this point late last week. I'll get the quote for you because I think he proves my point nicely. I think the article was from Cnn. "Pres. Obama was trying to calm fears that a government health program wouldn't hurt the private sector. To illustrate this point he stated "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine," Obama said, referring to private... courier services that compete with the U.S. Postal Service. "It's the Post Office that's always having problems." And that's supposed to make me feel better about his plan?!?!?!

The private industries don't have to worry, because they know that government plan won't be that much competition. Sure they will lower their brices a bit so that a large number of customers won't leave, but when you get better service, better doctors, better everything using a private company, the government policy will suffer.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) We already have this. The rich in this country don't have to worry about a thing. They have the best health care in the country. Like sunnykerr said - health care shouldn't be a commodity that goes to the richest person in the room. Well she didn't say that exactly but that's what I got out of it.

And you think that it will get better once the government is involved? That it will be easier for you to make doctors appointments when you have to compete with another 40 million people? My kids pediatricians take appointments up to 3 months in advance because they fill up so quickly.

And money ALWAYS = power. <--that's something that sadly, I don't think will ever change.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Not exactly - they are changing the rules but it doesn't go into effect until November. I know that you don't get charged interest if you pay in full. I also know what it's like to have life throw you curves and you have to deal with emergencies and don't have an extra thousand or two or three hanging around. You should hope that it never becomes a problem for you but some of us aren't so fortunate.

I'm of the belief that you don't live beyond your means. That you don't spend more than you can make. I know that life throws curves at you. It's what keeps us on our toes, but I've lived my life by the boy scout motto "be prepared" for that very reason. You never know what life will throw at you when you're making other plans. To make it more personal, my husband just had to stay in the hospital for a month, had part of his colon removed, and hospitals bills are over 100,000$ We will only pay 10% of that because of our great privately held insurance. So if that's the service that my constantly raising co-pays/premimums/voice mail hell private insurance company covers, I'll take it gladly.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Of course some meeting are going well but the people who are behaving badly are driving the story. Health care reform can be hurt by this minority who have really strong vocal chords and not much other constructive ideas.

If it's a minority who is hurting the movement, then where are the majoity of people running to these rallies to flood the microphones so that these uneducated minority can't get to it?

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) No - some of these Congressman and women who are against the public option come from the poorest sections of the country. What are they doing for their constituents? They care about their political ideology, their big donors and 2010. That goes for both parties.

Maybe in those poorer sections they are only hearing from the group who is against the plan. ie. the donators like you said. Granted using the threat of not voting for a person can hold some water, but as stated above, money=power. If I tell you that I will vote for you and donate 1 million to your campaign, you'll take it and vote my way over a poor mother and her three kids who will vote for me but wont give any money.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Obama getting the 52% of the popular vote - well what does that mean? It's no secret that this country is divided. We had a President who didn't win the popular vote for 4 years and I was told time and time again (even here) that it wasn't relevant.

Well I can't speak on behalf of what was said to you before, because I don't know what it was. But it's the electoral college that selects the president, BUT its the popular vote in each state that matters who gets the electoral votes. So they are BOTH important. Another key difference is that the Democrats also got a majority of the seats in the HoR and almost a full 60 in the Senate. That means that the Democrats, when all working together could get their entire agenda passed through and the Republicans can't do anything about it. Bush never had that.

So if the Democrats control the Legislative and Executive branches then why hasn't this gone through? The answer is simple, people on both sides are afaid of giving the government more power.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) But it's up to us as citizens to be informed to the best of our abilities. Saying it's too much, too hard, I can't deal with it aren't good excuses.

Agreed. But it becomes a problem when Palin and others put out false information. Should we blame the person who was misinformed and scared because of that info, or should we blame those that put out said false info?

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Those are some good suggestions but I'm pro-choice and I think abortion should be covered. I live in the real world and there's no way in the world it will happen. Euthanasia (and it's inclusion) is a lie that's being repeated as the truth. Palin should have kept her mouth shut on that but well....

Abortion, IMO is a state's matter. And should remain there. <--that's one of the complaints. If you put it into the plan, does that mean that pro lifers are going to have to pay for someone else abortion? What about states that have bans on abortion? Does this mean that they now have to start providing that service.

I didn't mean to imply that Euthanasia was in the plan. Palin is an idiot. I was just saying that it should not be included at all. But there is a portion of the bill that pays doctors to discuss end of life consultations with at risk patients....That is what is getting twisted into Palin's "Death Panels" crap.

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Most Americans want some type of health care reform - doing nothing will really harm us all.

Agreed. It's trying to find a happy medium in a country that's so divided that's the problem. I wish Obama luck, because he is going to need it.

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Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) Actually Medicare works pretty well. You're not denied treatment for a pre-existing condition, you can see the doctor of your choice, tests aren't denied because it will lose someone money. There are options where you can get supplemental covereage at pretty reasonable rates.

But to get it is no easy task and you rarely find good doctors who will take Medicaid, sadly. Well, I can't condemn all the doctors who take this kind of coverage but I can only speak for my in-laws who have Medicaid and they are treated just terribly in my opinion whenever they need to see the doctor (extreme wait times, poor customer service, etc.). So, it just makes me wonder if we were to have some sort of universal healthcare program, will it necessarily be better? I just see more doctors pissed off and taking it out on the patients. But again, if you're in the situation where you've got to get you and your kids to the doctor and you're currently without any health coverage for what ever the reason may be, then poor treatment from the doctors may not even matter.