News & Politics - The abortion debate - Page 8

ceilirose · 02-11-2008, 04:57 PM

The Catholic Church (at least in the U.S.) doesn't advocate the death penalty as far as I can remember and from what I was taught. Obviously they're pro-life but at least their position
on this issue is consistent.

Priori Incantatem · 02-12-2008, 06:12 PM

My opinion on abortion is it's an individual's right to choose. I don't think partial birth abortions are a good thing. But if it is a special case of rape, or life or death, or 'special circumstances' whatever that encompasses. I DON'T believe abortions should be granted to the average high school slut (or any aged slut) who can't keep their legs closed and want a form of birth control cuz a condom 'feels funny'.

It's not something I would say I'd never do, I've never been put into the position and I hope I never would. If I messed up and got pregnant, I'd definitely keep the baby though. I think there should be regulations on abortion to make sure women don't abuse the privilage. If that woman then goes and gets an illegal abortion, and dies, it kind of is like karma. And no more babies can be aborted through her.

I have a very skewed view on life. I don't mean to be disrespectful, so I hope I didn't offend anyone too badly, but I am very blunt in my opinions, and my opinions are usually a little off kilter.

sum1 · 02-13-2008, 03:31 AM

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Originally Posted by Priori Incantatem (View Post)

My opinion on abortion is it's an individual's right to choose.

Not according to some of the things you say later in the post.

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Originally Posted by Priori Incantatem (View Post)

I don't think partial birth abortions are a good thing.

Those abortions are used to save lives. Isn't saving lives a good thing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priori Incantatem (View Post)

I DON'T believe abortions should be granted to the average high school slut (or any aged slut) who can't keep their legs closed and want a form of birth control cuz a condom 'feels funny'.

So if you label somebody a slut they should be barred from having an abortion? What happened to "it's an individual's right to choose"?

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I think there should be regulations on abortion to make sure women don't abuse the privilage.

It's not a privilege, it's a right -the right to control over your own body.

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If that woman then goes and gets an illegal abortion, and dies, it kind of is like karma. And no more babies can be aborted through her.

You realize you're saying women should die for having abortions? For wanting to have control over their own bodies. I don't know if you're just trying to get a rise out of people or if you really have such inflammatory views but such a view is certainly not consistent with "it's an individual's right to choose".

Uh Blah · 02-13-2008, 07:09 AM

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I think there should be regulations on abortion to make sure women don't abuse the privilage. If that woman then goes and gets an illegal abortion, and dies, it kind of is like karma. And no more babies can be aborted through her.

Like the poster above said that's just wrong. You would rather people kill themself than be given the right to choose? Abortion is not an easy choice for anyone. I think most people would learn from their mistake & be more careful. That goes for both men & women.

migamoo · 02-13-2008, 10:37 AM

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Originally Posted by Priori Incantatem (View Post)

I don't think partial birth abortions are a good thing.

I don't think anyone really does. And if you look at the numbers, a very low perentage of them were ever done.

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But if it is a special case of rape, or life or death, or 'special circumstances' whatever that encompasses.

A special circumstance could be different to me than it is to you. And besides, if abortion is to be allowed on in "special circumstances" what happened to it being an individual's right to choose? Just because you, or anyone else for that matter, may not like or agree with abortion, doesn't mean that it should be made illegal.

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I DON'T believe abortions should be granted to the average high school slut (or any aged slut) who can't keep their legs closed and want a form of birth control cuz a condom 'feels funny'.

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from using the word "slut" on this board. It's a sweeping generalizing of a lot of girls (and maybe some guys) that just doesn't sit well with me and I'm sure a lot of people. And, it's also against the board rules. I understand you might be frustrated with the level of teen pregnancy or the numbers of teens having sex, but that's no reason for you to call them sluts. It's rude and disrespectful.

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I think there should be regulations on abortion to make sure women don't abuse the privilage.

Again, it's not a privilege but a right. Women have the right to use their bodies how they see fit, as it's governed by their right to privacy.

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If that woman then goes and gets an illegal abortion, and dies, it kind of is like karma. And no more babies can be aborted through her.

No, it's not like karma at all, it's a sad thing. Why are you even condoning someone dying like this?

**TheAngel** · 02-13-2008, 10:43 AM

So many people say, I don't think abortions should be used as birth control, but seriously, how many people actually use them as such? Abortions are expensive, they aren't covered under insurance (I don't think they are in the US anyway because they're elective procedures but I'm not certain). I think most people that get abortions are those that use birth control but it fails. I think often times it's portrayed as a "Oh, we don't have to use a condom, I'll just get an abortion if I get pregnant" type of thing, but I really think that's in the minority, especially since repeated abortions can keep a woman from getting pregnant in the future.

ceilirose · 02-13-2008, 10:46 AM

There's no such medical procedure as a "partial birth abortion." It's a term that the pro-life movement has repeated over and over again like to sell their point. Now it's a commonly accepted term.

I guess a "partial birth abortion" vs. a late term abortion catches the heart strings a bit more. Total manipulation but I don't see the pro life movement being called on it.

fetch · 02-13-2008, 11:29 AM

The funny thing that when couples don't use condoms, it's usually because the GUY doesn't want to, not the girl. Condoms can decrease how much a GUY can feel during sex, but it doesn't change that much for girls. So yes, sometimes guys put pressure on their girlfriends to not use protection, and the girl can't or won't take horomonal birth control. But I don't see why that means they should have a baby they aren't ready for - especailly since the very same guy who pressured the girl to having unprotected sex can leave her when she's pregnant.

Just because they were irresponsable once don't mean they should be "punished" for it. And having a baby shouldn't be punishment imo

sum1 · 02-13-2008, 12:27 PM

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Originally Posted by fetch (View Post)

Just because they were irresponsable once don't mean they should be "punished" for it. And having a baby shouldn't be punishment imo

Being forced to have a baby is a pretty dumb sort of punishment anyway. And think of the poor baby raised by a mother who didn't want him/her -now that's going to be a great life.

**TheAngel** · 02-13-2008, 03:50 PM

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Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

Being forced to have a baby is a pretty dumb sort of punishment anyway. And think of the poor baby raised by a mother who didn't want him/her -now that's going to be a great life.

Agreed, my grandmother used to work for the welfare system and worked as a social worker as well for a while. In the 60s and 70s she saw all kinds of kids that she said would have been better off being aborted because they were abused, born as crack babies, born to parents that hit them and ignored them and yet wouldn't take advantage of putting their child up for adoption. An absence of abortion would punish the child more than the parent.

Jen Jaree · 02-13-2008, 06:15 PM

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Originally Posted by TheAngel (View Post)

Agreed, my grandmother used to work for the welfare system and worked as a social worker as well for a while. In the 60s and 70s she saw all kinds of kids that she said would have been better off being aborted because they were abused, born as crack babies, born to parents that hit them and ignored them and yet wouldn't take advantage of putting their child up for adoption. An absence of abortion would punish the child more than the parent.

I agree which is main reason for being pro-choice. Especially if either your a teen, poor, or are just not the motherly type. Why bring a child who you can't or won't love, care for, support, or even want? I know abortion is not the only option adoption is one if you don't believe in it. I know people are worried about the woman having repeated abortions IMO in most cases they would most likely be more careful in the future or decide to keep it or adopt. I believe that abortion or giving it up for adoption is one of the hardest choices for a woman to make even for those who never wanted children. The goverment should have no say what a woman does to her body.

JohannafromIHJ · 02-14-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priori Incantatem (View Post)

My opinion on abortion is it's an individual's right to choose. I don't think partial birth abortions are a good thing.

There is no such thing as "partial birth abortion". The procedure you're thinking of is the D&E, which is used (in the second or third trimester) to remove a foetus without having to put the woman's body through the risks and strain of a full birth. The foetus's heart--if it has one, and it's still beating--is stopped with an injection 24 hours prior to the abortion itself. The pelvis is then widened, and the dead foetus is extracted.

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But if it is a special case of rape, or life or death, or 'special circumstances' whatever that encompasses.

There's also no such thing as "special circumstances". Allow abortions only to rape victims, for example, and you're suddenly going to have a myriad of pregnant women claiming to be rape victims. Why do people feel abortions are okay as long as the woman pays some sort of penance for it, for example: rape, illness, possible death etc.?

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I DON'T believe abortions should be granted to the average high school slut (or any aged slut) who can't keep their legs closed and want a form of birth control cuz a condom 'feels funny'.

An abortion is not for you to grant or not grant. You can argue wether a teenage girl who is, in your opinion, "a slut" should be allowed a safe, clinical abortion, or whether she should be forced to seek a more dangerous procedure, but the decision to abort or not abort has always been in the hands of the pregnant individual.

Furthermore, I don't see how anyone (speaking of people in general, not you in particular) can claim to like children and at the same time want to use them as a way of punishing young girls for having sex.

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I think there should be regulations on abortion to make sure women don't abuse the privilage.

There has already been regulation on abortion. Before abortion was made legal for all, women had to go through two doctors (a psychiatrist and a medical doctor), before getting a safe abortion. In order to get said abortion, they pretty much had to fake insanity and prove to the doctors that she was the very epitome of failed womanhood and couldn't be counted on to bring up a child. Subsequently, white middle- and upper-class women turned to high-end illegal abortions (fairly safe), while workingclass women got to spread 'em on the butcher's block, so to speak. The majority of women who die from illegal abortions are poor.

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If that woman then goes and gets an illegal abortion, and dies, it kind of is like karma. And no more babies can be aborted through her.

So basically, you think it's fair when a thirteen-year-old prostitute dies in the aftrermath of an illegal abortion, because hey, she's a skanky little slut anyway? Or when a mother of five in South America drops dead from post-abortion infection and her children are carted off to the nearest orphanage, where they can enjoy all the benefits of being adrift in the world with no one to give a damn about them (accept for local gang leaders and drug lords, of course)?

I'm not trying to lambast you, but I really think you ought to re-think your "Haha, serves you right!" mindset.

***Jerry D*** · 02-16-2008, 10:43 PM

I’m pro-choice, and I feel that if a woman chooses to terminate her pregnancy, I’d rather that it be done safely and legally by qualified medical personnel, rather than the alternative. I can’t and won’t judge the moral implications of terminating a pregnancy, because every circumstance involving an unwanted pregnancy is different, but I just wouldn’t want to see any woman put in danger if abortions became illegal again.

migamoo · 02-17-2008, 09:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post)

I can’t and won’t judge the moral implications of terminating a pregnancy

And it's nobody's business to either.

***Jerry D*** · 02-17-2008, 08:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Fieryangel (View Post)

And it's nobody's business to either.

But a lot of people do, unfortunately.