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Old 12-23-2007, 04:03 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by TheAngel (View Post)
But it's always about picking and chosing. That's why I won't call myself a Christian anymore. I saw too much hypocrasy. Those same people that say homosexuality and abortion are sins because of Biblical references leave out other laws that God writes. For example, if a virgin is raped she's supposed to marry the rapist after he pays her father. Also, women are supposed to keep their hair covered at all times. Of course the Bible says, Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and anyone that reads the Bible or studys it knows that Jesus died so that Christians can go to Heaven because no Christian is without sin, therefore, Christians have no right to judge homosexuals or people that have abortions because they themselves are sinners. But, alas, that's never going to happen, now is it?
The thing is, a lot of those rules made sense in the context of the time. Take the masturbation is a sin rule. Back then, the Israelites were a minority. And they didn't know men produce semen every 24 hours - they thought you could run out. Therefore masturbationbating would be wasteful and could lead to them dying out.
these days we know men don't run out of sperm and in fact their bodies get rid of sperm in wet dreams if they don't care of them theirselves, so forbiding them to masturbate seems silly. Back then, they didn't know.

Same for the rule about the girl marrying her rapist - back then, it was a twisted sign of respect. See, if a girl wasn't a virgin, no one else would marry her. The marriege was making sure the girl would be taken care of. Now no one would think to make a rule like that [hopefully].
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:22 PM
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The thing is, a lot of those rules made sense in the context of the time.
Then what's to say other laws weren't more for that time than now?
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Old 12-25-2007, 03:11 AM
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Then what's to say other laws weren't more for that time than now?
That's what I mean. The Bible was a rule book for those times. Now we have independant countries that each have laws.
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Old 12-25-2007, 07:43 AM
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To be honest when it comes it the role of religion in politics, it's never as neat a separation as we'd perhaps like it to be. When it comes to abortion, I think citizens should have the right to express their opinions - religion-based or not, we shouldn't tell them they haven't got the right to say what they think because we think it's politically irrelevant or not divine truth or whatever - but when it comes down to it, the law should be one that is basically secular and doesn't impose one group's religion on the whole population.
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fetch (View Post)
The thing is, a lot of those rules made sense in the context of the time. Take the masturbation is a sin rule. Back then, the Israelites were a minority. And they didn't know men produce semen every 24 hours - they thought you could run out. Therefore masturbationbating would be wasteful and could lead to them dying out.
these days we know men don't run out of sperm and in fact their bodies get rid of sperm in wet dreams if they don't care of them theirselves, so forbiding them to masturbate seems silly. Back then, they didn't know.

Same for the rule about the girl marrying her rapist - back then, it was a twisted sign of respect. See, if a girl wasn't a virgin, no one else would marry her. The marriege was making sure the girl would be taken care of. Now no one would think to make a rule like that [hopefully].
Well, now we're threatened with overpopulation, a limited amount of resources and a growing number of people to use those resources. More people are being born than are dying right now. Therefore, I suppose that abortion, when placing it in the context of our time, should not be illegal. Therefore, with the same logical placed upon ancient Biblical rules, it still makes sense that abortion be legal and be based on the choices of the individual involved.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:19 PM
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I have just finished reading a chapter in the book Eve's bite by Ian Wishart regarding abortion and eugenics, I am unequivocally pro life! the explananition of pro life and examples of abortions he gave have cemented it in my mind. Abortion = Murder
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:25 AM
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Yeah, Mouthpiece: I wonder if you're pro-death penalty? Not saying you are, but wouldn't that be considered murder too? So why is it that so many people who claim a religious basis against abortion also seem to be pro-capital punishment?
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Old 01-31-2008, 10:19 AM
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I think it stems from "An eye for an eye, tooth for tooth." But that argument should have become moot when Jesus said, "Turn the other cheek."
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:27 PM
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The idea of abortions being made illegal terrifies me. Although I myself am not religious, I believe that the bible advocates free, which has been given to man by God? Surely, removing a woman's right to choose an abortion is removing her free will, and therefore going against what God chose to give us? This is just my own opinion, but that's the way that it seems to me, anyway...

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Old 02-07-2008, 10:08 AM
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Yeah, Mouthpiece: I wonder if you're pro-death penalty? Not saying you are, but wouldn't that be considered murder too? So why is it that so many people who claim a religious basis against abortion also seem to be pro-capital punishment?
Because they figure the "babies" are innocent and the criminals aren't. They're against killing innocents not against killing in general. That argument against the anti-abortion people doesn't hold water so there's no point in using it.

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but when it comes down to it, the law should be one that is basically secular and doesn't impose one group's religion on the whole population.
Yeah. None of this changing the constitution to fit the bible nonsense.

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Old 02-07-2008, 10:34 AM
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A fetus conceived from a rape is "innocent" but you have a whole group of pro-lifers who are ok with abortion in that case. That's never made any sense to me and no argument explaining it has ever made sense either. Never will.

It's such a complicated and personal decision - the best reason why it should be left in the hands of the individual and not dictated by a Supreme Court Justice.
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:51 PM
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A fetus conceived from a rape is "innocent" but you have a whole group of pro-lifers who are ok with abortion in that case. That's never made any sense to me and no argument explaining it has ever made sense either. Never will.
A person being forced to bear a rape child is so extreme that even a lot of pro-lifers won't insist on it. Plus I'm not sure everybody really feels a rape child IS innocent. I don't mean in what they think they feel, rather in what they really feel deeper down.

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It's such a complicated and personal decision - the best reason why it should be left in the hands of the individual and not dictated by a Supreme Court Justice.
Well obviously. Well, if you're going to talk about the "best reason" really then there's the fact that it's a personal choice about something in an individual's body.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:07 PM
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A person being forced to bear a rape child is so extreme that even a lot of pro-lifers won't insist on it. Plus I'm not sure everybody really feels a rape child IS innocent. I don't mean in what they think they feel, rather in what they really feel deeper down.
A fetus has nothing to do with how it's conceived so therefore it should be innocent too. Again people are trying to shove their morals down someone else's throat and it never works. Doesn't stop people from trying to do it.

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Well obviously. Well, if you're going to talk about the "best reason" really then there's the fact that it's a personal choice about something in an individual's body.
Well it may be obvious to you and me but to others it's not. That's why, at least in the US, we're always doing this crazy dance of will they or won't they uphold Roe v. Wade.
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Old 02-07-2008, 02:23 PM
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A fetus conceived from a rape is "innocent" but you have a whole group of pro-lifers who are ok with abortion in that case. That's never made any sense to me and no argument explaining it has ever made sense either. Never will.
It's all about punishing the woman for having sex for fun.
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Old 02-07-2008, 03:23 PM
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It's all about punishing the woman for having sex for fun.
yeah well that too.
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