News & Politics - The abortion debate - Page 14

**sunnykerr** · 07-14-2009, 07:25 PM

I do think that is the sticking point. We all know there's a need for more doctors right now, especially in less-urban areas. I have to think that the doctors that are there must be stretched a little thin, probably going outside their realm of specialty a bit as well.

**Cristofle** · 07-28-2009, 11:50 AM

Coming from Catholic school, all I can say is TRUST me on this: teaching abstinence did not stop the majority of our student population from having sex. All it insured was that they didn't know what they were doing- more than one friend of mine got pregnant before the age of 20.

Our Teen Star classes were asinine, honestly- we didn't even learn about STDs or date rape/acquaintance rape (leaving more than one friend, as bizarre as it may sound, with a strangely fuzzy view of what rape is and isn't- it's like they think unless you're dragged off into an alley by a stranger, you haven't been raped). We learned about the value of chastity and got endless graphic descriptions about partial birth abortions as if they make up the majority of abortions and happen randomly for arbitrary reasons. Now, I'm not personally Catholic so I got all sorts of supplementary books, documentaries, and lectures from my mother, but I have no qualms in saying our "sex education" in Catholic school was absolute crap and didn't teach us anything. It certainly didn't slow most of the kids down from having sex.

**sunnykerr** · 07-28-2009, 04:11 PM

Oh, I trust you. I went to a secular high school and our sex-ed classes were crap. I would imagine that specifically denominational schools would have it even worse.

**sunnykerr** · 08-12-2009, 05:49 PM

Well, as I've mentionned before, I'm not too clear on my own position on abortion. I know I could never have one, but I also believe to the bottom of my soul that it's every woman's right to have access to a safe abortion supervised by a licensed medical practitioner.

Having said that, I don't think the pro-life side is gonna win any battles by arguing etymology and biology. A fetus may be a "little child" and it may have its own genetic makeup, but it couldn't sustain life outside its mother and yet it could destroy that mother's life, physically, emotionally or psychologically.

I think anyone who feels deeply about the value of any life is to be commended. But we should all walk a mile in a person's shoes before we start judging them for the choices they make.

**TheAngel** · 08-14-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post)

Oh, I trust you. I went to a secular high school and our sex-ed classes were crap. I would imagine that specifically denominational schools would have it even worse.

We actually had fairly good sex education classes in my high school, though that was seven years ago that I took it so who knows how that's changed. I had to take it in Freshman health class and we had lectures about STDs and had to look at pretty graphic pictures of genitals from people who were infected and we actually took a test about how different STDs were transmitted and what their symptoms were. Then we had a demonstration about how to put on a condom (for girls and boys) and talked about other forms of contraception. But that obviously isn't widely available in other places. And it really didn't stop a lot of people in my school from getting pregnant in their teens.

**sunnykerr** · 08-17-2009, 06:52 PM

Well... mine was about twice as long ago, so my memory might be a bit untrustworthy on the issue.

I do remember graphics of the symptoms of many STDs, but none of it in actual real-life renderings. In fact, I forget which one it is, but one of them was represented by a drawing of a crab... which a freaky enough image for me.

I don't remember any lessons on condom usage, though. What I do remember is that the school wouldn't allow us to have them available through the school nurse. Which, considering how small of a school we were and yet how many pregnancies we had... I always thought was a shame.

In retrospect, though, what strikes me is that there was a lack of connecting point A with point B, you know? Yes, STDs are scary, but if you don't tell the students how to avoid them... they're gonna take their chances. Because they could never say truthfully (nor did they attempt) that STDs will happen 100% of the times you have sex. And they wouldn't talk condoms. So, students were left with the impression that you took your chances every time you had sex and, guess what, most STDs have cures.

So you can imagine the result.

fetch · 09-02-2009, 10:56 AM

Sex education classes show you how little people really know..

**sunnykerr** · 09-02-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Wash. State Man Accused Of Threatening Colo. Abortion Clinic Director

A Spokane, Wash., man was arrested Wednesday for making detailed death threats about the family of abortion provider Warren Hern, director of the Boulder Abortion Clinic in Colorado, the New York Times reports. Hern said that although he has received death threats in the past, he has been taking the threats more seriously since the May murder of his friend and colleague George Tiller. Under the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act, it is a federal crime to injure or intimidate employees of reproductive health services facilities.

The suspect, Donald Hertz, 70, is accused of calling the clinic and saying that two men from Utah would be dispatched to kill the director's family, according to the Times. Hern said it is unclear whether any attack was actually planned, "but my family was terrified, my staff was terrified, and my 92-year-old mother had to be taken from her apartment to a safe location. We felt like we were under siege." Hertz, who could face six years in prison if convicted, will plead not guilty, his attorney said.

Wash. State Man Accused Of Threatening Colo. Abortion Clinic Director

Someday, someone will explain to me how people can hate abortion for "taking lives" and turn around to threaten the families of doctors.

And I mean explain it in a way that will sense to me.

Because there is something so hypocritical about it, so deviously heinous, that makes me forget all of my own misgivings about abortion.

san fran · 09-03-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post)

Someday, someone will explain to me how people can hate abortion for "taking lives" and turn around to threaten the families of doctors.

Agree.

I always wondered how people could judge women who had an abortion (for whatever reason) by saying she took someone's life and that she had no right to interfere in this life. But the same way they want to interfere in the lives of women who want to have abortion. Of course there is a difference, but there are some radical anti-abortion activists.

So, it is okay to hate women who have abortion and to judge them that this was wrong and wanting to prevent others from abortion by any appliance, but it is not okay that some women only consider to have abortion? Yeah...

Personally I'm against abortion, 'cause I think there are other ways like giving the child up for adoption (there are so many people who can't have own children...)
BUT women who were raped should have the legal right to abort. There is no reason why a woman who was brutally forced to have sex with someone she didn't want to (imagine that!!!) should have to carry the child to term. It's hard to deal with rape, but imagine you have to deal with carrying something from this person in you. May sound hard, but this way I can totally understand women who want to abort.

And I think it should be a woman's decision. But she should be informed by doctors what abortion really means.

I don't think 14 year old girls who don't know how to spell intercourse should easily have an abortion just because they don't know how to use contraceptives.

It's a tough subject and I think sexual education should be taught in schools. Not just "Adam and Eve" stuff. The real stuff.

**sunnykerr** · 09-04-2009, 05:44 PM

I know I couldn't have an abortion myself.

But, at the same time, this is one of those issues where I could see myself really going out of my way to stand up, were it ever seriously threatened.

Because the legalization of abortion isn't about abortion. Not really. Not to men anyway. It's about giving poor women the same right to a safe and medically supervised procedure as rich women had before abortion was allowed by law. Because rich women can afford to travel to where they need to go and they can afford to see the doctors that will give them the service they want.

Poor women? Not so much. So, you take away abortion rights, and we're back to wire hangers in back-alley rooms.

So, I have all kinds of spiritual and philosophical reasons why I couldn't do it. But that's not good enough for society at large.

fetch · 09-05-2009, 12:10 PM

I think it's difficult to say for sure what we'd do until we're in that situation. A lot of women who got abortions said they never thought they'd get ones.

**Callace** · 09-05-2009, 01:30 PM

I dont think I could ever get an abortion either, but I can understand women who wants one. There is a lot of trouble in the world, a lot of dificult circumstances. If you are not able to care for a child, (dont have the time, dont have the money etc) it is really tough to get one. And it is true that th women who dont want the abortion for these reasons, those who have the resources to raise the child, will likely have a way to get an abortion anyway. A ban would only hurt the poor.

**wanderer78** · 09-05-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post)

Wash. State Man Accused Of Threatening Colo. Abortion Clinic Director

Someday, someone will explain to me how people can hate abortion for "taking lives" and turn around to threaten the families of doctors.

And I mean explain it in a way that will sense to me.

Because there is something so hypocritical about it, so deviously heinous, that makes me forget all of my own misgivings about abortion.

I agree. But it has increased my respect for doctors that provide abortions. They could have easily chosen another specialty, but they chose to help these women. Even though their very lives are at stake.

Bans would not stop abortion. It would just make it less safe for most women.

I couldn't get one myself, but I don't want anyone else making that choice for me, or for any other woman. And to be fair, I've never been faced with an unwanted pregnancy, so I can't say for sure.

san fran · 09-07-2009, 10:31 AM

I'm also saying that I couldn't get an abortion myself, but you'll never know what happens. I'm pretty sure I'd want abortion if I'm raped and get pregnant. There's no way anybody can force me to have it.

And as mentioned above, it's true. A ban would only hurt the poor.

It's a very difficult topic and I think there are a thousand opinions on it.

I can't understand the people who say "a woman shouldn't be allowed to get an abortion"
I mean... do they know all women who are pregnant and consider to get an abortion??? Do they know anything about these women??? Do they know how it is to be in such a situation???
They don't want the women to decide over the child's life (and if the abortion is made in the first weeks..(I think it's not okay to have an abortion after two months or so) it isn't actually alive... don't know how to say this by not sounding cruel -.-) but they want to decide over the women's lives. Haha.

**TheAngel** · 09-07-2009, 11:37 AM

I know I could get an abortion. When I had a pregnancy scare several years back I'd already located the closest abortion clinic and was planning on going to it for tests when I got my period and didn't have to worry about it. I'm too young to have a child and even with things like adoption, my career would still be ruined by having to take time off work in order to have the baby. I'm too selfish, and I acknowledge that I'm too selfish, to do that. Besides, I wouldn't put my body through the health risks associated with pregnancy, especially since my family has a history of high blood pressure during pregnancy that can lead to other issues. To me, it's all about choice. I'm not going to make people have abortions, but I don't want them to tell me that I can't. Everything should be about freedom of choice. If abortion wasn't legal in the US, I'd find another option. It's as simple as that.