News & Politics - The abortion debate - Page 11

fetch · 06-01-2009, 07:51 AM

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Originally Posted by portiaslegacy (View Post)

Ha, I once saw a guy make the same point in a standup routine. He was all "You spend all this time looking for sex and then refuse a tool that helps it last longer?

But fetch: You have to not assume that people are getting abortions because of not using birth control. Most forms have some failure rate and no one is suggesting that anyone use an abortion as an alternative.

I am new-ish to the forums. While I have never had an abortion I am very pro choice and do volunteer work for Planned Parenthood. I have limited experience with protesters, and even when they are not killers they tend to be on the worst side of harassment.

Oh yes, I know that it's not the only reason. I just know two girls who don't really use condoms and I just find it so weird. As for guys - most guys I know don't have a problem with it. Some claim they're uncomfortable or hurt; I've used two types of condoms with my boyfriend and he says R3 hurt putting on and Durex don't

Anyway, there are so many types of condoms, and other types of birth control, that someone not finding ANYTHING that suits them seems a little fishy to me. But there is always the failure rate, rape, and various other incidents.

As for this...

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Randall Terry, founder and former president, Operation Rescue:“George Tiller was a mass murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama administration will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions.”

Strikes me as so rude

++Audrina++ · 06-01-2009, 02:24 PM

I still can't get over where he was killed. In a church of all places.

As far as the whole condom thing, there are so many trypes and brands out there, its hard not to find one that you can be comfortable with. Now granted i'm not a guy lol but my boyfriend easily was able to find some he could use and feel comfortable using.

Bella Grint · 06-01-2009, 05:02 PM

I think anti abortion protestors do get a lot of slack..one of the comments above backs me up too, by Randall Terry. It's funny, didn't Obama call for a middle grounds with pro lifers and pro choicers? Since he has become president he hasn't gotten himself in the midst of much when it comes to abortion and gay marriage. I hope pro lifers don't use this murder as an excuse to spread the hate onto Obama atleast. I don't think Obama will try to get pro lifers to abandon their rhetoric and actions but he will call them out if they use murder and hate..unless Randall Terry is thinking that is ok too. Hypocrisy goes both ways.

ceilirose · 06-01-2009, 05:10 PM

Randall Terry is a self-promoting "expletive deleted" as far as I'm concerned. He was the guy that was always up front and center during the whole Schiavo fiasco IIRC. Unfortunately this tragedy will give him more air time.

**sunnykerr** · 06-01-2009, 06:57 PM

Every part of this is a tragedy.

But I keep thinking of the fact that this doctor was one of the few to perform late-term abortions in the whole of the United States. According to the news, he was one of a handful... and a handful isn't very much.

And as much as the idea of a late-term abortion kinda... skeeves me out, to be frank... well, they can be quite necessary.

Clearly, I'm not alone in being skeeved out by these types of abortions, because so few doctors will perform them.

And so, the fact that one of the few doctors who would perform that procedure is how gone... worries me. For the women who might find themselves in need of it.

Bella Grint · 06-01-2009, 07:27 PM

I am pro choice for the first trimester only. Late term abortions make me uneasy by then. I just figure by then the baby could have a chance of living if it were to be born..plus the woman has had a long while to decide if she has wanted it or not. If you're still pregnant by that point it is for a reason

and there is more of a chance that woman's life could be at risk the later the abortion is performed. The only exception I would make is it it was an emergency with the baby or mother's health or some sudden discovery about the baby's condition.

For late term abortion providers, I think there may be one in Seattle atleast for 5 months or so. Not sure.

**LaraCroft01** · 06-01-2009, 07:52 PM

To Scott Roeder: Way to drum up support for your cause you jerk.

More on what Randell Terry said:

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"George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder. Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches."

Wow I can't stand this guy already.

**sunnykerr** · 06-01-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella Grint (View Post)

I am pro choice for the first trimester only. Late term abortions make me uneasy by then. I just figure by then the baby could have a chance of living if it were to be born..plus the woman has had a long while to decide if she has wanted it or not. If you're still pregnant by that point it is for a reason

and there is more of a chance that woman's life could be at risk the later the abortion is performed. The only exception I would make is it it was an emergency with the baby or mother's health or some sudden discovery about the baby's condition.

For late term abortion providers, I think there may be one in Seattle atleast for 5 months or so. Not sure.

Well, I'm pretty much right there with you.

I am profoundly disturbed by anyone using abortion as their contraception. And I am pretty much appalled by people using abortion to get rid of a "problem" baby.

But for those cases where the mother's life is in serious jeopardy (such as with mirror syndrome) or illnesses of the baby will be nill as they live painful and short lives, such as with Edward's syndrome... For those cases, I do believe in the legal right to late-term abortions and to their accessibility to whatever women may need to avail themselves of it.

So, it makes me uncomfortable, but my comfort isn't at issue here.

Bella Grint · 06-01-2009, 08:17 PM

not the best way to phrase that because Till wasn't peacefully protested in his home or church. This means anyone can be seen as a murderer and more killings will be encouraged because of that very comment. If he says that, stalking other docs in their homes or churches will be seen as fine.

Ah yes, using abortion as birth control and such also disgusts me. I hate hearing about women who do it a couple times because of that. You'd think after the first, or maybe second abortion they would learn How to be safe when having sex.

**TheAngel** · 06-01-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella Grint (View Post)

not the best way to phrase that because Till wasn't peacefully protested in his home or church. This means anyone can be seen as a murderer and more killings will be encouraged because of that very comment. If he says that, stalking other docs in their homes or churches will be seen as fine.

Ah yes, using abortion as birth control and such also disgusts me. I hate hearing about women who do it a couple times because of that. You'd think after the first, or maybe second abortion they would learn How to be safe when having sex.

But it should still be their choice. If they want to have fifty abortions they should be allowed to. Until a fetus is viable (it can live outside the womb) then it shouldn't be considered independent of the mother. And no, viable doesn't mean putting a tiny little thing in a machine and raising it that way for six months. Whenever I make that argument, people always say, what if you had been aborted. My response, well, it was obvious I wouldn't have been wanted and I'd rather die without any cognizance than live with the knowledge that I was unwanted and unloved. Then again, my mother also had access to birth control that isn't available to all women. If you want to get rid of abortion, get rid of accidental pregnancies, and you do that by making birth control more socially acceptable and more widely available.
It's easy for us to talk about being safe when having sex, but what about an abusive partner that refuses to wear a condom, or a young girl whose parents have never talked to her about birth control or a hundred other circumstances that should be taken into account.

Bella Grint · 06-01-2009, 10:03 PM

Hey I wasn't the only one who has this opinion, Sunny brought it up and I was just agreeing. Disagree if you want, I am not discussing it any further. Maybe Sunny will. She brought it up, you debate it with her. The only thing I have to say is after awhile 50 abortions would kill the woman that would cause physical damage to her body eventually. But like I said, I was going agreeing with Sunny so don't single me out.

Uh Blah · 06-02-2009, 06:20 AM

Well I can say from personal experience that abortion is certainly not an easy decision. I was seeing this girl for a couple years, but we were very off and on for most of our relationship. One night we had drunk sex and didn't take precautions. When she told me she was pregnant I was in a state of shock. I was in my early 20s at the time and I knew I wasn't ready to be a father. Obviously we made a huge mistake by not using protection, but I felt like it would be making an even bigger mistake to try to raise a child without a steady job or place of my own. Plus we were not in love and it was clear that we didn't want a serious relationship at that point. In the end it was her decision and I didn't try to influence her in any way. She had gotten pregnant in a past relationship and chose to give that baby up for adoption, but she felt she couldn't go through with that again. So ultimately we chose to have an abortion. It's a selfish act I know that, but it's an option that I'm thankful to have because in my eyes it gave me a chance to grow up and make something of myself, so that if/when I am a father I'll be ready.

fetch · 06-02-2009, 06:29 AM

I've been reading a lot about this ever since I heard, and it seems like ALL late term abortions are about the health of the mother or the baby. Honestly, I can't imagine any woman waking up one month before she gives birth and randomly deciding to abort (and any doctor agreeing).

So-called "Partial Birth Abortion" Bans and Third Trimester Abortions

Kansas Stories

*Lauren · 06-02-2009, 09:43 AM

Wow, I completly forgot this board existsed! I haven't been here in YEARS.

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I don't understand this condom hate. I mean, it doesn't have any effect on what women feel, or at least their ability to achieve...umm, their end goal. And for men, well, a lot of them could benefit from a little decreased sensitivity,

Yes, it does make a difference for women. Trust me. First time I went without one with my husband there was a MASSIVE difference in feel for both him and me.

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it's weird I think docs like him are looked at as murderers but it's weird to think they do have normal lives and they go to church and stuff when they are condemned to hell by many

There's only one person who can condemned you to hell and that's God. Anyone else trying to condemn people to hell will be for a nasty shock when they do come face to face with God.

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besides like someone else said, I don't think he only performed abortions. Then again he did do it after 21 weeks which I disagree with but that was probably a lot more hatred against him.

He also was active in helping women get pregenant.

In regards to the late term abortions, go read up on what he did. There are quite a few women talking about their experiences. Late term abortions are performed when there is a massive health risk to mother and/or baby. We're talking about babies with no brains, no hearts, massive problems. These babies are aborted because they are going to have very short, very painful lives. Add to that, by not abortion you are forcing the mother to go through a horrific labour, knowing that her child is dead and that there is nothing they can do. Some women do make the choice to go through that, but who the hell is ANYONE to tell a woman that she needs to go through that horrible ammount of pain yo give birth to a child that is going to die?

Healthy babies are not aborted that late. Please find me an example of one that has been.

My view has changed on abortion a lot the past couple of years. Part of that was watching a former friend go through pregnancy scare after scare. And still not use protection. She finally fell pregnant and after breaking up with the father had an abortion. (She also asked to borrow the money off me. I told her where to shove it)

I've also found my faith again after a long time away from it, which has changed my view.

My personal view on abortion is that its murder. I hate the idea that its not a baby until it breaths its first breath. That idea makes me feel ill. The ONLY way I can ever see myself having an abortion was if there was no hope the baby would survive. I couldn't go through birth knowing that I was delivering a dead baby. That would kill me.

HOWEVER, that is my personal view. Other women don't have that view. A woman should have safe and legal means to have abortions for first trimester abortions no matter what. Second and third term trimesters should be done on a case by case basis (between the doctor and the patient)

My response to people who are pro-life, don't want an abortion, don't have one. Its really simple. That's why I call myself pro-choice.

**TheAngel** · 06-02-2009, 09:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Bella Grint (View Post)

Hey I wasn't the only one who has this opinion, Sunny brought it up and I was just agreeing. Disagree if you want, I am not discussing it any further. Maybe Sunny will. She brought it up, you debate it with her. The only thing I have to say is after awhile 50 abortions would kill the woman that would cause physical damage to her body eventually. But like I said, I was going agreeing with Sunny so don't single me out.

And breathe. I'm not singling you out. When there are two posts one right after another about basically the same thing I'll quote the last one. It's not like I was attacking you or anything. I was simply making an argument, so just relax. I think it's exaggeration to say someone has ever had fifty abortions. I've heard that after two or three it can cause damage to reproductive organs and make it difficult for a women to become pregnant so I doubt fifty would be possible. I also don't think women can get pregnant that many times in their life, but hey, I don't know, I'm not going to be trying it out.

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Yes, it does make a difference for women. Trust me. First time I went without one with my husband there was a MASSIVE difference in feel for both him and me.

It doesn't make a difference for me.