[ceilirose]

McCain is doing the same thing with the debate tonight. It's his way of being the top story in the news - the Republican Drama King.

[TheAngel]

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) McCain is doing the same thing with the debate tonight. It's his way of being the top story in the news - the Republican Drama King.

So does that mean he's showing up tonight or not? I'll be interested to see what happens personally.

[ceilirose]

Originally Posted by TheAngel (View Post) So does that mean he's showing up tonight or not? I'll be interested to see what happens personally.

As far as I know nothing has been said either way. McCain put himself in a bad situation. He issued this threat and then was a part of the reason the negotations failed.

McCain said he wouldn't go to the debate unless there was a solution to the economic crisis. I doubt there will be one by tonight so if he shows up he has egg on his face. If he doesn't then it's a chance for Obama to gain more credibility and a bigger lead in the poll by acting like the adult.

It's insane because this election has such serious consequences and I feel like we're in the middle of someone's personal meltdown.

ETA - MSNBC is now saying that he will attend the debate and there will be questions on the economy.

[Shu]

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) I just hate that this bail out is being shoved down our throats. I've heard what genki is saying and then I've heard that the bail out is supposed to help the companies that are still functioning with credit - not the ones that are in trouble with sub prime mortgages. I know that things are in trouble but color me fairly confused.

I think the idea is to help the whole system stay afloat for now.

[collide]

Originally Posted by Cristofle (View Post) What really pisses me off about McCain is that Republicans and Democrats alike were saying they were having the best bipartisan meetings they'd had in years. And then McCain shows up. And this all screeches to a halt and they're all back in their defensive corners. All so McCain can sit there and do NOTHING. And say NOTHING. For someone who claims to put country first, he's acting an awful lot like this is a game and since he's paid his dues, he deserves all the power.

I agree. And it is sad that so many people fall for it.

Why can't they switch the order? Debate the economy tonight.

[Cristofle]

I can't pretend I'm not baffled that the polls are still close. It's like McCain is running through the streets buck naked and all his supporters are telling him what a great outfit he has on. This man is showing more and more by the DAY that he's completely unhinged. That's worse than Bush. Bush is stupid, but he's not crazy. McCain is both.

[Shu]

Originally Posted by Cristofle (View Post) I can't pretend I'm not baffled that the polls are still close. It's like McCain is running through the streets buck naked and all his supporters are telling him what a great outfit he has on. This man is showing more and more by the DAY that he's completely unhinged. That's worse than Bush. Bush is stupid, but he's not crazy. McCain is both.

it makes me want to revoke my citizenship.

[ceilirose]

We're just a divided country and people will or are still buying into the "maverick, fighter" image of McCain. Especially the media.

Yesterday - actually the last two days were just a big political stunt on McCain's part. If you just somewhat followed the news then you knew Congress had reached a bi-partisan solution before McCain even set foot in Washington DC. Then it all blew up yesterday - just in time for the evening newscasts. Sense a pattern here? Let's not solve the real issues - let's make sure everyone knows that McCain is the "maverick" coming in to save the day. Republican talking heads were saying that this was a classic McCain maverick move in reverential tones.

McCain's plan was for less deregulation and more corporate tax cuts. Isn't that why we're in the mess we're in right now - at least in part?

Now I'm going to try and decipher Palin's comments about Putin and Alaskan air space which make absolutely no sense. But we can't criticize her because we're all sexist if we do that.

[Shu]

Palin is an idiot that makes less sense than bush.

[Uh Blah]

Originally Posted by genki (View Post) Palin is an idiot that makes less sense than bush.

I swear if it gets any worse he might just pull another maverick move & toss her off the ticket. I mean with this whole economic crisis he has to be regretting that he didn't choose Romney now!

[UnsilentMajorty]

Originally Posted by genki (View Post) Okay so I spoke to my dad who teaches economics and this is what he told me. He says the bailout does nothing for the economy in the long run but prop up a failing economic system. He says not bailing out these companies would actually be more benefitial in the long run. It simply makes sure that rich people continue to stay rich. The stock market is over-inflated according to the way he broke it down and bailing out these companies will not ensure a drop in an emplyment nor will inflation stagnate. Not bailing out these companies would send a message to end subprime mortgages and for banks to only loan out money they actually rather than having investors own the mortgages. Basically, this was bound to happen and the bailout is just another way to help the people who started this mess.

I am sure your father is well-versed in the problem at hand, but it appears you and his reasoning behind not wanting a bailout is strictly from the consumer (borrower) side of things.

Here is the lender side of why both Democrats and Republicans NEED to hammer out a bailout package ASAP:

The main reason the bailout NEEDS to happen is so investment banks can still OPERATE on a day-to-day basis. This means paying the payroll of employees, bills, insurance and expenses that go into a multi-billion corporation versus Congress just giving them a blank check to keep making the same (bad) risky investments that got us into this mess in the first place. This is the key difference between just bailing them out and making them accountable via standards and better regulation. This is what BOTH Democrats and Republicans hope will come out of this bill and this is what will benefit the country in the long run.

Here is a very simplified break down of where we stand NOW and what needs to happen SOON to prevent further economic damage/collapse:

1) Most of the investment banks and firms don't trust one another right now. They all hold subprime loans bundled into SIVs -- Security Investment Vehicles. Because the subprime loans in these SIVs are defaulting, this of course, brings down the VALUE of the entire SIV as a negotiable instrument. Think of an SIV as a bucket full of subprime and prime MBS (Mortgage Backed Securities). MBS are just a smaller pool of loans, both subprime and prime (good mortgages people with good FICO scores can pay bundled together in a financial instrument that can be traded/bought/sold as one group).

Now, because these low value SIVs full of defaulting MBS exist and are saturating the market the demand for them is very low. It's low because no investment bank wants to deal with what is essentially a bad investment with very little chance of return. This leads to the second part of the crisis and why Congress needs to pass a funding package ASAP and that is...

2) Most investment banks and corporations fund their day-to-day operations via short term interest loans. Guess what they put up as collateral for those short term loans? SIBs... Which now include a lot of bad MBS.

So, if you have been following everything up to this point you can see the main problem, right now, is no investment banks/firms wants to loan... SHORT TERM LOANS... Any money to any other firm because there is a good chance they won't make any, or very little money back.

No financial institution wanting to lend money to any other institution so they can operate is the financial crisis that we are in now and that needs bailing out because if a multi-billion dollar corporation ceases to exist... This is what could start a great depression because this means millions of people being laid off which will further add to possible foreclosures which leads to more bad MBS and SiVs which means no short term loans, and on and on.

It is a vicious Catch-22 we have gotten ourselves into... Specifically, with the Republican Administration these last eight years and their no regulation approach... But now you can hopefully see if we DON'T bailout some of these big firms/banks it could have a spiral effect that would plunge the economy into a far WORSE mess than any of us have ever seen (I think most on this board weren't even alive when the Great Depression hit, correct?).

Now, let me make one thing clear. I don't think you should reward greed and those who made obscene profits by using questionable (illegal, unethical) methods to achieve those profits. This is the straight forward and logical response I mentioned above. However, this is also a shortsighted, knee-jerk reaction because most people think of wealthy CEOs and their golden parachutes whenever they hear the words Wall Street, and Financial Markets. These people are only the top percent. The bailout is intended to help those below CEO level not only keep their jobs, but keep the market moving because right now it is almost at a dead stand still. This is why we have a crisis that demands a fairly fast fix: Everybody needs money to operate, but everybody is afraid to lend money to somebody else because they are afraid they are just "giving away" their money with no hope of return (or very little return).

This is what the bailout package is about AT IT'S CORE. It is about maintaining the stability of our financial market and institutions and hoping to restore TRUST and CONFIDENCE between entities in the financial world, so they WILL start making short term loans again... And so our institutions DON'T have to get loans from the Bank of England, China, Venezuela, etc... So we don't physically collapse and add millions of more jobs to the rising unemployment figures, more defaulting mortgages, more numbers to well fare, food and gas prices going through the roof (because services and business have to raise prices because less and less people can afford them, ironically) and on and on and on...

[Laira]

Good News Everyone! McCain has already won the debate.

Donklephant Blog Archive McCain Wins Debate!

Haha, you really can’t make stuff like this up. From Wash Post: “McCain Wins Debate!” declares the ad which features a headshot of a smiling McCain with an American flag background. Another ad spotted by our eagle-eyed observer featured a quote from McCain campaign manager Rick Davis declaring: “McCain won the debate– hands down.” This campaign is seriously imploding. In any event, if you see that ad on this site PLEASE take a screenshot of it and send it to me at justin@donklephant.com. Thanks!

[Cristofle]

The best part? That showed up before he even publically agreed to DO the debate.

[Shu]

UnSilent majority thank you for that well thoughout and articulate post. Although, I do see the value of the bailout I just hope its done like you say. What we need to do is role back the view on regulation vs deregulation. This started not with bush but with Reagan and until we as a country reject Reagonmics we'll be in this mess again in a few years.

[collide]

And he said Obama was presumptuous?