News & Politics - 2008 Presidential Election:(Part 10) Where We Debate the Debates! - Page 5

ericfan1 · 10-08-2008, 08:50 AM

Also I have to disagree - I don't see what's wrong in exploring any candidate's background in detail. There's too much at stake and how a candidate reacts to a situation - both politically and emotionally tells a lot about him or her. What I see in how McCain reacts to Obama isn't too reassuring. We know he doesn't care for him but sorry - when you're the President you need the temperament to work with people that you may not particularly like. It's time to be mature and not the sarcastic, condescending and exasperated man he was last night. We'll see if he can turn it around.
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Very well said...

collide · 10-08-2008, 08:50 AM

We know he doesn't care for him but sorry - when you're the President you need the temperament to work with people that you may not particularly like. It's time to be mature and not the sarcastic, condescending and exasperated man he was last night. We'll see if he can turn it around.

I agree with this. I don't know if Obama likes McCain or not, but I think he does have respect for him. Because of his service and his time in the Senate.

Uh Blah · 10-08-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

If you have a mortgage you more than likely know what Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are. We don't know that this man didn't know even if he doesn't have one (a mortgage). Look it was just a stupid comment from McCain - just more of the same and a very dangerous presumption on his part.

LOL..you predict the future - if Obama had said it would have gotten ZERO attention? How so? Because the media is in the bag for him? That's a wild presumption on your part.

Also I have to disagree - I don't see what's wrong in exploring any candidate's background in detail. There's too much at stake and how a candidate reacts to a situation - both politically and emotionally tells a lot about him or her. What I see in how McCain reacts to Obama isn't too reassuring. We know he doesn't care for him but sorry - when you're the President you need the temperament to work with people that you may not particularly like. It's time to be mature and not the sarcastic, condescending and exasperated man he was last night. We'll see if he can turn it around.

Dangerous how? There's still a large percentage of people who don't own. Is it because the man happened to be black? Seriously? If an old white man appears to be talking down to a black man does that automatically make him racist as others have suggested?

As mentioned before there's a clear media bias on BOTH sides depending on which network you're discussing. The difference here is McCain is the one being labeled as "out of touch" so it would be futile for the right wing media to pounce on Obama for making that statement & in the best interest of the left not to.

True or not it's still perceived notions on your part. Not factual by any means. I want fact based differences between them to be discussed & debated on. In the end whether he/she gets along with everyone is far less important than how they're gonna fix the economy & strengthen our standing in the world IMO.

Nayden-fan868 · 10-08-2008, 09:29 AM

Uh Blah, lets not argue over Hillary again. That was threads ago and months ago so that is over

I was just making a point. McCain won the nomination with the attitude that he's a POW, served his country first

and that this is owed to him. IMO, I said I think Hillary had the same sentiment.

That's all I said and that was the end of it. That made up quote was how I FELT in her mind she was saying.

If it's all about independents I think McCain lost many brownie points. He's suppose to be this old mature and experienced senator and he came off like a mean spirited VERY vicious grumpy old man.

Like I said before, if I was an independent and I was leaning McCain after last night I would lose all respect for him

he was absolutely ridiculous.

And what is this about McCain not shaking Obama's hand. I missed that. But IF he did do that. That's a damm shame. Be mature

ceilirose · 10-08-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uh Blah (View Post)

Dangerous how? There's still a large percentage of people who don't own. Is it because the man happened to be black? Seriously? If an old white man appears to be talking down to a black man does that automatically make him racist as others have suggested?

Dangerous because you're making pre-conceived notions about what people know and don't know. It's stupid and dangerous on his part in terms of his campaign to go there. You mentioned the fact that the questioner was black, not me - so don't assume I'm talking about that - I'm not. I would have thought it was a stupid remark whether the person was white, black, yellow, green, male, female or a trans gendered person.

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As mentioned before there's a clear media bias on BOTH sides depending on which network you're discussing. The difference here is McCain is the one being labeled as "out of touch" so it would be futile for the right wing media to pounce on Obama for making that statement & in the best interest of the left not to.

In your opinion - because that's all there is here - opinion.

Clearly I haven't seen the same attention payed to McCain's relationships to Keating and G. Gordon Liddy over the past few days as I've seen in regards to Obama's relationships with Ayers. If it has been please tell me where. The media wants a tight race, they want it to go down to the wire and if the latest McCain/Palin sleaze works they benefit. I don't think anyone out there thinks the media gives a fair portrayal of either candidate.

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True or not it's still perceived notions on your part. Not factual by any means.

Right - me and how many others? We're all living in a dream world and you're dealing with the facts. You know what - that's your opinion - that's all. How do you know that I don't have enough life or business experience and have dealt with people like McCain (condescending etc.) to know what I'm talking about.

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I want fact based differences between them to be discussed & debated on. In the end whether he/she gets along with everyone is far less important than how they're gonna fix the economy & strengthen our standing in the world IMO.

Did it ever occur to you that some of us know the facts and that we're looking for other things/issues to base our votes on? Or to reinforce our belief? I'm not quite clear why we all have to think alike when choosing a candidate or that one way is the best way. If it works for you fine but we're not all cut from the same cloth.

If you don't think that demeanor and the ability to get opposite sides to come to an agreement on issues is important than we have a fundamental disagreement. Just look at the last eight years of cowboy Bush and his "my way or the highway mentality." We're just doing great after all that, aren't we?

Pacey'sgirl · 10-08-2008, 10:50 AM

Oh boy this is an ongoing disscusion folks can have forever til the end of time....much like religion

But I feel like we surely need a change I mean its definatly not working the last 4 yrs have been a downward spiral in our economy and noone paid attention. Im neither Republican or Democratic....I usually vote on the issues at hand at the time and at this time the economy stinks and I will vote for the one i think who will work the hardest to fix it. This color thing should have no impact on anything its about who will best run this country ,color , male, female...doesnt matter all are equal to start..depends on who will get the job done the best! As far as the debates go they are always the same thing......politicians avoiding questions and twisting and mincing words. That rarely changes my mind on anything. Thanks for listening to my rant have a great day!

ericfan1 · 10-08-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacey'sgirl (View Post)

Oh boy this is an ongoing disscusion folks can have forever til the end of time....much like religion

But I feel like we surely need a change I mean its definatly not working the last 4 yrs have been a downward spiral in our economy and noone paid attention. Im neither Republican or Democratic....I usually vote on the issues at hand at the time and at this time the economy stinks and I will vote for the one i think who will work the hardest to fix it. This color thing should have no impact on anything its about who will best run this country ,color , male, female...doesnt matter all are equal to start..depends on who will get the job done the best! As far as the debates go they are always the same thing......politicians avoiding questions and twisting and mincing words. That rarely changes my mind on anything. Thanks for listening to my rant have a great day!

Well I for one. agree with your rant and thanks for ranting..

Pacey'sgirl · 10-08-2008, 11:01 AM

Thank You Sue. Im more than pleased to meet you!

Uh Blah · 10-08-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

Dangerous because you're making pre-conceived notions about what people know and don't know. It's stupid and dangerous on his part in terms of his campaign to go there. You mentioned the fact that the questioner was black, not me - so don't assume I'm talking about that - I'm not. I would have thought it was a stupid remark whether the person was white, black, yellow, green, male, female or a trans gendered person.

But you're doing the same thing by accusing McCain of being condescending when it's very possible that person didn't know who Freddy & Fanny were. This whole argument is meaningless & serves no purpose, which was my point to begin with. I wasn't assuming anything! I simply asked the question, since race was brought up by other posters in reference to McCain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

In your opinion - because that's all there is here - opinion.

Clearly I haven't seen the same attention payed to McCain's relationships to Keating and G. Gordon Liddy over the past few days as I've seen in regards to Obama's relationships with Ayers. If it has been please tell me where. The media wants a tight race, they want it to go down to the wire and if the latest McCain/Palin sleaze works they benefit. I don't think anyone out there thinks the media gives a fair portrayal of either candidate.

If you watched MSNBC last night there were hordes of Obama supporters outside the debate hall behind Chris Matthews that were holding up signs, one that specifically said "Out of Touch" with an image of McCain below it. The network made no effort to block those signs & in fact encouraged them by having Matthews go into the crowd pretending to look for McCain supporters. The fact is the Ayers relationship was ironically brought up by a known liberally biased newspaper, the NY Times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

Right - me and how many others? We're all living in a dream world and you're dealing with the facts. You know what - that's your opinion - that's all. How do you know that I don't have enough life or business experience and have dealt with people like McCain (condescending etc.) to know what I'm talking about.

So I'm not allowed an opinion? I'm not begrudging you of your's, which by the way is all it is too! I'm simply suggesting there's things of greater importance in this world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

Did it ever occur to you that some of us know the facts and that we're looking for other things/issues to base our votes on? Or to reinforce our belief? I'm not quite clear why we all have to think alike when choosing a candidate or that one way is the best way. If it works for you fine but we're not all cut from the same cloth.

If you don't think that demeanor and the ability to get opposite sides to come to an agreement on issues is important than we have a fundamental disagreement. Just look at the last eight years of cowboy Bush and his "my way or the highway mentality." We're just doing great after all that, aren't we?

Now I could take that as being condescending, but I choose not to make accusations/judgements of people I don't know personally.

Again it is just my opinion. I'm not trying to tell anyone how THEY should choose a candidate. But IMO it was voters ignoring the real issues that got Bush elected in the 1st place.

I do think it's important to be able to have the ability to get opposite sides to come together, but I wouldn't use a debate format for my argument. I would use McCain's behaviour last week in regards to the bailout plan & how he managed to halt the process just when things seemed to be all settled.

ceilirose · 10-08-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uh Blah (View Post)

But you're doing the same thing by accusing McCain of being condescending when it's very possible that person didn't know who Freddy & Fanny were. This whole argument is meaningless & serves no purpose, which was my point to begin with. I wasn't assuming anything! I simply asked the question, since race was brought up by other posters in reference to McCain.

My parents taught me never to assume anything about anyone - especially a stranger. Now an audience member, interested enough to ask to be in a Presidential debate audience asks a question about the home mortgage crisis and one is to assume that he probably doesn't have an interest in the subject. I don't buy it.

Again you may think it's meaningless and serves no purpose - I don't and others don't.

Quote:

If you watched MSNBC last night there were hordes of Obama supporters outside the debate hall behind Chris Matthews that were holding up signs, one that specifically said "Out of Touch" with an image of McCain below it. The network made no effort to block those signs & in fact encouraged them by having Matthews go into the crowd pretending to look for McCain supporters. The fact is the Ayers relationship was ironically brought up by a known liberally biased newspaper, the NY Times.

And I watched MSNBC last week and saw it split between Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin supporters. The NY Times is a bit bi-polar - they were the main cheerleaders for the lead up to the Iraq War. In this same article they also came to the opinion that the Ayers connection was not important.

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So I'm not allowed an opinion? I'm not begrudging you of your's, which by the way is all it is too! I'm simply suggesting there's things of greater importance in this world.

Did I say that you're not allowed an opinion? Tell me where I said that.

You're the one who said I had pre-conceived notions and that they weren't factual. Not sure how you know what my pre-conceived notions are of if they even exist but whatever. I'm not going to get into who is being condescending or not. It's all opinion, right?

ericfan1 · 10-08-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacey'sgirl (View Post)

Thank You Sue. Im more than pleased to meet you!

Thank you Jen, This is my first ever political thread to post in and so far I am enjoying the banter. Thanks for making me feel welcome.

collide · 10-08-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacey'sgirl (View Post)

As far as the debates go they are always the same thing......politicians avoiding questions and twisting and mincing words. That rarely changes my mind on anything. Thanks for listening to my rant have a great day!

I agree with you in the sense that the debates are not helping any. Both sides are rehashing the same talking points.

ceilirose · 10-08-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by collide (View Post)

I agree with you in the sense that the debates are not helping any. Both sides are rehashing the same talking points.

I agree..there was nothing last night that was really new except for McCain bailing out the failed mortgages. It actually got a little boring. Hopefully next week is a little different but again the questions all seem the same or with just a little variation on them. I get that McCain knows how to get bin Laden and I get that Obama will not invade Pakistan. Not sure how many times we can talk about that again.

**vc318** · 10-08-2008, 03:47 PM

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On last night's debate; I don't care for all this hammering of McCain for calling Obama "that one" & I especially think it's ridiculous to suggest it has any racial meaning behind it.

However, at the first presidential debate, McCain supporters thought that it was insulting for Obama to refer to McCain by his first name. Something isn't right here - Obama is trying to have a civil debate yet McCain refers to him as "that one." You don't want to make this an issue of color so let's put that aside. But whether you're black or white, anybody would feel insulted to be referred to as "that one." That wasn't necessary and there's no excuse for his actions.

collide · 10-08-2008, 04:34 PM

Well, at least Obama called McCain by his name. And didn't try to de-humanize him.