Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Willow's motives

Sosa Lola · 06-02-2006, 10:58 AM

Why did Willow bring Buffy back? I'm questioning Willow's morality here. Did she really do if for Buffy? Or herself? It was clear why the others were helping. Tara was just being supportive to Willow, Xander was honestly doing it for Buffy, and Anya was just there because of Xander.

I'm having problems with Willow's motives. Her explanation of Buffy being in hell was just ridiculous. I mean this is Willow, smart and everything. How is it possible that Buffy was going to hell? Mystical death or not, Willow was preparing to use the dark magic behind Xander and Tara's backs. Why didn't she tell them? If she really believed that Buffy was in hell, why didn't she tell Giles about it? Why not Spike or Dawn? She knew that what she was doing was wrong and properly knew that Buffy might be peacefully in heaven, in spite of her shock in OMWF.

Willow in my opinion did it because she couldn't handle the new responsibility, she wanted Buffy back to make things the way they used to. Another possible reason was because she missed Buffy so much that she couldn't see life without her. All and all it was plain selfish. What do you think?

**ROCKSTAR** · 06-02-2006, 08:02 PM

The thing about going to hell was that maybe they thought Buffy could be trapped in a hell dimension, even if she was supposed to be a better place. Also, it would be possible that they missed her too much to let her go. They wanted Buffy back, to be there as a friend, as a Slayer, as a sister, etc.

I don't know..

BTW, your avatar is gorgeous.

Sosa Lola · 06-02-2006, 08:32 PM

Thanks

I think Willow wanted Buffy so bad because 1- she missed her. 2- She couldn't handle being a leader anymore. 3- She could.

Willow had manipulated the idiots around her to help her get Buffy back. With Tara, she didn't need to do anything, Tara had always supported Willow blindly. (Thankfully, she had waked up from the 'Willow is god' illusion in Halloween.)

Xander was the only one who questioned Willow's decisions, yet Willow played with his emotions and guilt when she continued to say that Buffy might be in hell, and Xander is not doing anything about it.

Anya only did it because Xander is doing it.

Willow knew she couldn't manipulate Giles, Spike nor Dawn, which is why she never told them.

Bill the bloodless · 06-03-2006, 09:13 AM

^^^Dawn?? Dont you think that Dawn would have wanted Willow to do when she did?Because she could have maniplulated her, she was 15 and she would easily go along with Willow's plan. I think Willow did it because she loved Buffy, she didnt want to go on without her and like you said i think she couldnt take the resposiblity being the leader and fighting evil. But she was being a little selfish, i think she wanted to push boundaries she hasn't done before, i think a part of her just wanted this huge power and what better way then bringing something to life.

Sosa Lola · 06-03-2006, 09:57 AM

I think Willow knew. She knew on some level that Buffy was in Heaven or at least somewhere good. Why else don't you think she wanted the Spike, Giles and Dawn to know? Tara was easily convinced because she was her lover and would do anything to make her happy. Xander was easily convinced because he believed in his best friend and that she knew more about magic than him as well as Willow convinced him that Buffy was in Hell. He thought that if it was wrong Tara or Anya who knew better would speak up, which they didn't. Tara for the reason above and Anya coz she didn't care she was there because of Xander.

Willow had no reason not to involve the others. They all loved her. She was afraid that Dawn would have had the right to refuse if she wanted to and it would put an end to it. Dawn missed her sister… but Willow was afraid that Dawn believed her sister was in a better place and would stop her from taking her away from it. Same goes for Spike and Giles, but more. Both of these guys are older and wiser… they would obviously know that Buffy is well. That the magic Willow was using was dark, evil and that never ends well. They would have stopped her. That why Willow refused to tell them. Why else if she was sure Buffy was in Hell?! She wasn't!

Moreover, everything we know about magic says that Good or White Magic is used for something good or against evil… which is something good as well. Bad/Evil or Dark magic is used for evil or against good… which is always bad news.

Willow needed Dark Magic to bring back Buffy. If Buffy was indeed in Hell. Something which wasn't just for a hero that saved the world countless times, she would have used good magic… because White Magic is its strongest against Dark Magic and vice versa. Willow used Dark Magic coz she needed to fight the light. She needed to sacrifice an innocent… to pay a price… to pull Buffy from somewhere good she needed the strongest magic against something right… which was Dark Magic.

Remember what Spike told Dawn when she was trying to bring her mom back? That is was Dark Magic she was using to bring her mom back… Dark Magic she found in a book Willow gave her. There is no supernatural forces involved in Joyce's death… and since she was good… she naturally went to Heaven. So when Dawn tried to pull her out she used Dark Magic. Same as Willow did later for Buffy.

So what does this all say? Willow a powerful witch went against her beliefs to use Dark Magic… … she knew.

I think she also did it coz she could. Coz she didn't want to be the strong one, the one in charge. But that doesn’t validate what she did.

sum1 · 06-04-2006, 04:26 PM

Willow brought Buffy back because she likes controlling things. And because it was a chance to do really big magic.

Also, somebody once suggested to me that Willow brought her back as a source of income -and looking at the way Willow lived (squatting in Buffy's house, doing no work, sponging off Buffy and lounging around while Buffy did the dishes etc) I think that might be a good point. Willow's nothing if not selfish in all things.

Sosa Lola · 06-04-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1

Also, somebody once suggested to me that Willow brought her back as a source of income -and looking at the way Willow lived (squatting in Buffy's house, doing no work, sponging off Buffy and lounging around while Buffy did the dishes etc) I think that might be a good point. Willow's nothing if not selfish in all things.

LOL, maybe, I dunno, I've always thought the fact that Willow and Tara never worked to help with the house's money was a writers' flaw. How were they able to survive during the Summer? Off of Giles and Xander maybe?

elizas_dude · 06-05-2006, 04:19 AM

i dont think willow was genuin. The info given to the droup was that the portal opened up to different demon dimensions(sp?) and when buffy jumped in there she thought that thats where buffy ended up. Its something thatwe will never really no but IMO i think that she did it to save buffy.

Bronson · 06-05-2006, 08:50 AM

I had always thought it was both ego and friendship. Ego to show how powerful she was that she could do this and friendship because she missed Buffy her best friend.

Beauty In Imperfection · 06-06-2006, 07:10 AM

Great thread

. Though I'd throw in my 2 cents.
I'm a firm believer that Willow brought Buffy back for herself. I don't think she really knew where Buffy was - heaven, hell, the world without shrimp

, I don't even think she considered it. She just thought 'Well, Buffy isn't here' and decided that she wanted her back. It's not completely against Willow's character to have selfish motives either. When she cheated on Oz she didn't accept he needed space, she followed him around trying to get him to forgive her - tried to make herself feel better. And we saw in Season 6 again, that she messed with Tara's mind (and gave everyone amnesia in the process

) just because she wanted the relationship to continue without dealing with Tara's misgivings over her magic use. All in all I think she brought Buffy back because she didn't want to live without her, I don't really think she had some noble saving the world reason for it. She didn't want to bring 'the slayer' back, she just wanted Buffy.

Sosa Lola · 06-06-2006, 08:24 AM

I think one of the reasons for Willow's selfishness is her need to be loved as well as her desire to keep the ones she loves around her. A friend of mine, entrenous88 had pointed out that in the early seasons it seems like Willow really wants to emphasize Xander's outsider + loser status. I'm not saying this is the only thing she wants to do; in other respects she strikes me as a fun friend and a great support for Xander and Buffy. But here...it's interesting that when Xander says he doesn't like Freddy Munson, Willow says "You just don't like him because he beat you up for five years." Which...um...that's an odd thing to remind Xander of, and certainly seems to make him feel awkward/embarassed, less able to move beyond being targeted as a guy who doesn't fit in.

Then later when Willow is advising him on costumes, and suggests Bavarian, Xander basically tells her he doesn't want to look dumb. And she says "Why are you so worried about looking like an idiot? That came out wrong." And I found that line really interesting, because it's not that Willow's saying why do you care about what people think. She seems, through a slip of the tongue that she herself recognizes, to imply that she can't understand why Xander is no longer willing to do stuff that make him unappealing to a broader scope of people, and by extension keep him safe in her orbit.

wisherwasher · 06-07-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sosa Lola

LOL, maybe, I dunno, I've always thought the fact that Willow and Tara never worked to help with the house's money was a writers' flaw. How were they able to survive during the Summer? Off of Giles and Xander maybe?

That's one way of explaining it, but I like to look at the show as another dimension where the writers don't exist. To me, it helps the universe take better shape. I don't believe in writing flaws and OOCness. I just think that's damned arrogant for a fan to dictate who or what should happen.

Well, Buffy's insurance money went somewhere rather quickly.

For me, I think they all did it rather selfishly. Looking at the beginning of Bargaining, the underlying theme is hard work and how tired they all are. They don't want to slay anymore. Well, maybe more accurately, they don't want to *have* to do it anymore. Helping out against a bi-weekly MOtW doesn't bother them, but the night in-night out patrolling is just wearing thin. And I guess that sort of ties in with the rest of the season where none of them really offer to go with her, except when they're trying to escape the mess they've made of their own lives.

Willow, yeah, I think it was all about Willow, not about Buffy at all. To prove she could do it, to have the ultimate power--controlling life and death.

Tara would do whatever Willow wanted, and as we learn later in the season, whether she wanted to or not. But again, I don't think what Buffy would want played into it much.

Anya, same.

Xander probably had the best intentions of all of them, though I think he might have wanted to believe Willow that she was in Hell.

Moon Dragon · 07-09-2006, 02:32 PM

Willow is my least favourite character on the show, so THANK YOU for making this thread.

The only reason she brought Buffy back is because SHE wanted to. It was all about her. Come on, Willow's smart - I'll guarantee her that. She knew that a hero like Buffy would OBVIOUSLY go to Heaven. Tara didn't know this because she had only known Buffy a little while, Anya didn't know this because she didn't understand humanity and its morals, and Xander............. Well, let's just say Xander isn't the brightest crayon in the box.

Point is, Willow KNEW Buffy wasn't in Hell, but she brought her back anyway, because she wanted her back. She didn't want to be the strong one, the leader. Plus, she craved power. She wanted to see if she was strong enough to ressurect the dead.

Tara, Anya and Xander were easily manipulated, but Willow knew Dawn, Spike and Giles couldn't be. Dawn was Buffy's sister and Giles and Spike were too smart. That's why she left them out of this. Then when she brought Buffy back, she acted as though she had done her a big favour, and went all self-righteous when when Buffy and Giles got angry at her.

Sosa Lola · 07-10-2006, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moon Dragon

Xander............. Well, let's just say Xander isn't the brightest crayon in the box.

Xander had argued against bringing Buffy back the most, it's when Willow cried and said it's Buffy, Xander, how can you live with yourself if you let her rotten in hell, especially that she didn't die normally. That had gotten into Xander, the fact that Buffy could be in some sort of hell, not to mention that she had been into one before.

Tara only tagged along for Willow and Anya only tagged along for Xander. Remeber when Xander said he doesn't want to part of this, how Anya quickly agreed with him, and when Xander agreed to do the spell, Anya also agreed to come with.

*Millie* · 07-10-2006, 04:17 AM

For Buffy's sake Willow should not have brang her back from the dead, because as Buffy had said that she was finally in Heaven until they brang her back to earth...which is hell for her. But luckily for our sake, what Willow did was a good thing bringing Buffy back from the dead, so we could get another season.