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Old 05-29-2020, 08:09 AM
  #31
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How does City Of or Disharmony sound for our next viewing party?
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Old 05-29-2020, 03:29 PM
  #32
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Yeah, she handled her parents leaving and losing her fortune incredibly strongly. Even on BTVS, she hid it and only Xander found out when he caught her working at a clothing store. Sad to think of her shouldering that burden alone. She wasn't close enough to anyone in SD to share it with them.
Which is one of the reasons I love BtVS CA fics so much, she has Angel in her corner.

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I'd never judge anyone doing survival sex work, or anyone choosing that line of work, and I support them, but, like you said, a lot of times they are cohered, or it is forced on them, or there's a power imbalance, etc. It's also unfortunately a dangerous line of work for many reasons, but also bc there are no laws (at least none here that I know of) to protect sex workers.
Laws to protect sex workers? I'm pretty sure sexual professions are illegals in most places, unfortunately. That, however, is another TV trope so I could be wrong.

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I read a fic where Cordy was a prostitute, as well. The one I read was really well written, but she passes away in the end.
Oh crap. In the one I read, she didn't pass away but you know she's going to as Angel insisted that she get tested for STDs and (after she agrees to do it, she'd tried to refuse but Angel had persisted) it's heavily implied that she came back HIV positive.

It's so well done though. Cordy returns to the Hyperion (I can't recall where she'd been) to find the new renovations she'd helped him with in ruins because Angel had gone into a rage after reading her test results.
It ends with them laying in bed together both scared but agreeing to make the best of what time they have.


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Oooh, never even thought of that moment as being prompted in part by TSILA. Agree about the attraction and wonder if living with her in the beginning of S2 also would've had an affect on him.
Considering that living with her would inevitably expose him to the most private and open version of herself, I have no doubt that had an effect on him. Fanfics agree.

Some good examples are: 'Friends and Neighbors' by Lysa (they're not exactly living together but are living next door to each other in adjoining apartments so close enough) and 'Sleeping with Tigers' by Califi.

Angel arguably saw more of Cordy in the--what was to--1 or 2 days that she lived in his apartment than anyone ever had in her life including her parents.

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How does City Of or Disharmony sound for our next viewing party?
Either is fine to me, but I lean towards 'Disharmony' as I've literally still only seen it the one time.
Same time same place?
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Old 05-30-2020, 02:12 PM
  #33
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Which is one of the reasons I love BtVS CA fics so much, she has Angel in her corner.
Same. It's so interesting to see how the Sunnydale dynamic would've changed if Angel and Cordy had become friends (or more) earlier.

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Laws to protect sex workers? I'm pretty sure sexual professions are illegals in most places, unfortunately. That, however, is another TV trope so I could be wrong.
No, you're right (to my knowledge). The way I look at it is that survival sex work will literally never stop no matter how illegal they make it, so there might as well be some laws to protect the people involved to make it safer for everyone. It's like 'curing' pregnancy with abstinence - ain't never gonna happen.


But I'm so off topic from CA rn, so moving on...

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Considering that living with her would inevitably expose him to the most private and open version of herself, I have no doubt that had an effect on him. Fanfics agree.
Oh, how I wish we'd seen more of their living situations in early S2.

I also love in RWAV when she stays with him.

Funny how in S1 he wanted to get rid of her, but in S3 he'd be happy to have her staying however long she wanted.


Quote:
Some good examples are: 'Friends and Neighbors' by Lysa (they're not exactly living together but are living next door to each other in adjoining apartments so close enough) and 'Sleeping with Tigers' by Califi.
I need to re-read Friends & Neighbors. And, ugh, I love Sleeping with Tigers.

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Either is fine to me, but I lean towards 'Disharmony' as I've literally still only seen it the one time.
Same time same place?
Works for me.
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Old 05-30-2020, 06:32 PM
  #34
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Same. It's so interesting to see how the Sunnydale dynamic would've changed if Angel and Cordy had become friends (or more) earlier.
There was clear potential on-screen for a great CA friendship.

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No, you're right (to my knowledge). The way I look at it is that survival sex work will literally never stop no matter how illegal they make it, so there might as well be some laws to protect the people involved to make it safer for everyone. It's like 'curing' pregnancy with abstinence - ain't never gonna happen.


But I'm so off topic from CA rn, so moving on...
Good point and that is all I shall say as not to continue going off-topic.

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Oh, how I wish we'd seen more of their living situations in early S2.
It would have been great to see Angel's mannerisms as a roommate.

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I also love in RWAV when she stays with him.
She's such a terrible roommate it's hilarious.
I'm surprised no one has fanfic-ed the peanut butter coming up again in season 3 with them as a couple. I wonder if she'd continue to deny it.

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Funny how in S1 he wanted to get rid of her, but in S3 he'd be happy to have her staying however long she wanted.

Not to mention have her in his bed with him.



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I need to re-read Friends & Neighbors. And, ugh, I love Sleeping with Tigers.
I've read them both twice and now I could go for a third time myself.

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Works for me.
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:44 PM
  #35
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Some pretty, not quite Cordy/Angel, but I thought you guys would like what's being said






https://theangelrewatch.tumblr.com/p...322-tomorrow-2
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:09 PM
  #36
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Nice parallel catch!
Groo isn't as much of a dumb oaf as he seems.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:52 PM
  #37
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There was clear potential on-screen for a great CA friendship.
At least we will always have Some Assembly Required and Halloween. And Cordy crushing on Angel the first time she sees him.
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It would have been great to see Angel's mannerisms as a roommate.
We missed out on a lot of fun banter. And more cute domestic scenes like Angel cooking for her and Cordy heating his blood.

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I'm surprised no one has fanfic-ed the peanut butter coming up again in season 3 with them as a couple. I wonder if she'd continue to deny it.
Me too. I'm surprised it didn't become a CA fic staple like some of the other tropes.

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Not to mention have her in his bed with him.
That moment breaks my heart so much knowing what comes after. Part of me wishes I could freeze them in that moment of peace because they lose it pretty much forever after that.

I appreciate that Groo actually did the healthy thing there, which was confront Cordelia about her feelings for Angel, instead of being jealous and pathetic and trying to keep them apart.
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Some pretty, not quite Cordy/Angel, but I thought you guys would like what's being said
Thanks for posting.

The "you laugh at the same jests" make me think of the episode where Cordy says something like "no one gets my humor" and Angel adds "I thought it was funny." What episode was that from again? I'm having a brain fail.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:18 PM
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The "you laugh at the same jests" make me think of the episode where Cordy says something like "no one gets my humor" and Angel adds "I thought it was funny." What episode was that from again? I'm having a brain fail.
To Shanshu in L.A. - always loved that line. Just proves that there was a connection waaaay sooner, in Sunnydale.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:19 PM
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At least we will always have Some Assembly Required and Halloween. And Cordy crushing on Angel the first time she sees him.
Perhaps we should add those eps to our watch party list.

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We missed out on a lot of fun banter. And more cute domestic scenes like Angel cooking for her and Cordy heating his blood.
Yeah but at least we get it with fanfictions.


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That moment breaks my heart so much knowing what comes after. Part of me wishes I could freeze them in that moment of peace because they lose it pretty much forever after that.
Right? I've imagined a reboot plot in which Angel gets the PTB to send him back in time to save Cordy and I've always made him go back to 'Tomorrow' when Cordy rose to the higher plane but the Provider scene might be more ideal because it erases teenage Connor as well.

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I appreciate that Groo actually did the healthy thing there, which was confront Cordelia about her feelings for Angel, instead of being jealous and pathetic and trying to keep them apart.
True which fits well with the fact that AtS was meant to be more adult than BtVS.
I've (reluctantly) never thought Groo was a bad guy, I just hate what his appearance did to CA.

It's a bit maddening that just that small speech was all that was needed to open Cordy's eyes to her feelings for Angel and she accepted them so easily yet no one thought to give it to her sooner! Like before Groo showed up!
While Angel got the Kyruption speech twice and dismissed it both times!
Or did she need to whole Connor kidnapping thing to happen to figure out her priorities or something?

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The "you laugh at the same jests" make me think of the episode where Cordy says something like "no one gets my humor" and Angel adds "I thought it was funny." What episode was that from again? I'm having a brain fail.
Seriously Bangel fans are in more hardcore denial than CA themselves to dismiss this stuff!
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Old 06-02-2020, 03:28 PM
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To Shanshu in L.A. - always loved that line. Just proves that there was a connection waaaay sooner, in Sunnydale.
Thanks for the reminder. Love your icon, btw.

And IA. Angel laughed at her Barbie dream car joke in Halloween. Suffice to say, he always appreciated her humor.

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Perhaps we should add those eps to our watch party list.
Oh, nice idea. I could go for a CA in Sunnydale watch party. It's your turn to pick the episode, as well.

Quote:
Right? I've imagined a reboot plot in which Angel gets the PTB to send him back in time to save Cordy and I've always made him go back to 'Tomorrow' when Cordy rose to the higher plane but the Provider scene might be more ideal because it erases teenage Connor as well.
I'd love to read a fic of that.

Am I a bad person for not minding teenage Connor erased? Then again, it would also give Connor a do-over and the life he missed growing up with Cordy & Angel.

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I've (reluctantly) never thought Groo was a bad guy, I just hate what his appearance did to CA.
Yeah, he was brought in as a lazy writing C-block for CA.

I never disliked Groo himself, though. I appreciate that he recognized Cordy for the Queen she is (unlike, say, Xander). He treated our girl well, so I'll give him that.

Quote:
While Angel got the Kyrumption speech twice and dismissed it both times!
I think part of Angel dismissing it was bc he doesn't believe he deserves happiness or anything close to it and also bc he didn't think he was good enough for Cordy.

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It's a bit maddening that just that small speech was all that was needed to open Cordy's eyes to her feelings for Angel and she accepted them so easily yet no one thought to give it to her sooner! Like before Groo showed up!
I think part of her denial was because of how 1) men had hurt her in the past (Xander, her dad leaving and being a terrible father, Angel's beige period). 2) Cordy pursued Angel in the past and got looked over for Buffy (that would've stung). 3) She had a front row seat to the BA forever drama in Sunnydale and 4) probably got used to burying any attraction she felt for him because of their friendship - she wouldn't want to ruin it. I think a huge reason she didn't recognize Angel's feelings for her when they deepened into romantic territory was because she'd utterly convinced herself he'd never feel that way and that he was off limits.

We also theorized about Jasmine possibly keeping CA apart and maybe having some influence on Cordy as early as the end of Birthday (when Cordy was 'demonized' into a higher power).
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:13 PM
  #41
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Thanks for the reminder. Love your icon, btw.

And IA. Angel laughed at her Barbie dream car joke in Halloween. Suffice to say, he always appreciated her humor.
Although he was supposed to look disgusted and uncomfortable and DB epic failed at that, that was definitely legit. We see other moments where he seems enthralled to be around her and her confidence and we know he's into cars from the analogy he used in TVT that she didn't appreciate.

"Did you just compare me to a car?"
"Well, it was a very nice car."

I forget if there are any moments in the series that support it but I've read fics where doesn't like to let other people drive his GMX not even Cordy because it's like his baby.

'Long Time Coming' is one. I remember when the Fang Gang went to LA to check with Lorne if the revised curse to secure his soul worked, Faith wanted to drive his car and he refused until the return trip so he could hold Cordy while she slept. Even then he was watching her pretty closely. Hehe.

I've also read one or two where he rages at Cordy for "borrowing" his car without asking and denting it in minor accidents.

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Oh, nice idea. I could go for a CA in Sunnydale watch party. It's your turn to pick the episode, as well.
Right. Let's see.
I'm having a tough time choosing between To Shanshu in LA, Birthday, and That Vision Thing.

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I'd love to read a fic of that.

Am I a bad person for not minding teenage Connor erased? Then again, it would also give Connor a do-over and the life he missed growing up with Cordy & Angel.
If so then I'm an even worse person because I wouldn't mind infant Connor being erased as well and I've read at least one fic where he is as an indirect byproduct of the larger plot as it's established that Angel killed Darla instead of boned her not long after Dru re-turned her.
This is one I have in my rec list:

Promise Me by Misha.

I personally prefer eraser fics to fixers though I'd totally read the plot I mentioned and ironically one of the fics I hope I can see through is a fixer (Or well, more like a different but better dumpster fire that is able to be fixed with no deaths).

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Yeah, he was brought in as a lazy writing C-block for CA.

I never disliked Groo himself, though. I appreciate that he recognized Cordy for the Queen she is (unlike, say, Xander). He treated our girl well, so I'll give him that.
IA, though the one thing that still bothers me about him is that as nice a pet name as Princess passes for, he NEVER once called her by her actual name. He never even references it until ATF. I almost wondered if he even knew it but then Cordy of course would make sure he did.

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I think part of Angel dismissing it was bc he doesn't believe he deserves happiness or anything close to it and also bc he didn't think he was good enough for Cordy.
IA entirely, he even tells Lorne outright that he doesn't feel good enough.
"What can I offer her?"
Funny thing is if Cordy knew this she'd probably fume and go "Shouldn't I be the judge of that?!"

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I think part of her denial was because of how 1) men had hurt her in the past (Xander, her dad leaving and being a terrible father, Angel's beige period). 2) Cordy pursued Angel in the past and got looked over for Buffy (that would've stung). 3) She had a front row seat to the BA forever drama in Sunnydale and 4) probably got used to burying any attraction she felt for him because of their friendship - she wouldn't want to ruin it. I think a huge reason she didn't recognize Angel's feelings for her when they deepened into romantic territory was because she'd utterly convinced herself he'd never feel that way and that he was off limits.
I couldn't have said it better, what I wanna know is why no one tried to talk to her about it as Fred and Lorne did Angel.

I suppose her history could be a factor but how would they know? I don't expect that she was really open about it or that Angel would disrespect her privacy by talking about it behind her back.

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We also theorized about Jasmine possibly keeping CA apart and maybe having some influence on Cordy as early as the end of Birthday (when Cordy was 'demonized' into a higher power).
I remember and still believe there is certainly a distinct possibility of that based on that freaky ass Connor healing bit if nothing else.
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:51 AM
  #42
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It's such a nice day outside today.

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I forget if there are any moments in the series that support it but I've read fics where doesn't like to let other people drive his GMX not even Cordy because it's like his baby.
Good question. I've seen Angel's thing for his car (and not letting anyone drive it) in many a CA fic.

There was this moment in First Impressions:


https://therearenopeoplelikeus.tumbl...t/187052967555

I can't think of any others, but Cordy does seem really excited like driving his car isn't something that happens often.

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Right. Let's see.
I'm having a tough time choosing between To Shanshu in LA, Birthday, and That Vision Thing.
I vote for TSILA because it's the one I've seen the least of the three, but I'll happily watch any of them.

Quote:
'Long Time Coming' is one. I remember when the Fang Gang went to LA to check with Lorne if the revised curse to secure his soul worked, Faith wanted to drive his car and he refused until the return trip so he could hold Cordy while she slept. Even then he was watching her pretty closely. Hehe.
That's so cute. I need to re-read LTC.
I just re-read Friends and Neighbors.
Quote:
Promise Me by Misha.
Thanks for the rec. Will check it out.

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IA, though the one thing that still bothers me about him is that as nice a pet name as Princess passes for, he NEVER once called her by her actual name. He never even references it until ATF. I almost wondered if he even knew it but then Cordy of course would make sure he did.
Wow, if that's true I never caught that. Not saying her name even once...hmm that is a bit weird. Then again, Groo wasn't his birth name, but a name he'd earned and felt honor in being called by. So maybe the princess title was his idea of being respectful? IDK.

Quote:
Funny thing is if Cordy knew this she'd probably fume and go "Shouldn't I be the judge of that?!"
Oh yeah, she'd give him a talking to.

Quote:
I couldn't have said it better, what I wanna know is why no one tried to talk to her about it as Fred and Lorne did Angel.
Fred did tease Cordy a bit about Angel's feelings for her in WITW:

Quote:
Fred: "And then we have to find a dress for you. Something that will make Angel crazy."
Cordy: "Fred, sweetie. Angel *is* crazy."
Fred: "Well, I know he's gonna wanna look his best for you."
But Cordy brushed it aside as if Fred was joking or reading Angel wrong. Maybe others did mention it off screen and Cordy similarly laughed it off because she wasn't ready to believe/didn't think he ever wound want her that way?

Quote:
I remember and still believe there is certainly a distinct possibility of that based on that freaky ass Connor healing bit if nothing else.
Plus, Groo's return and Cordy leaving was just so convenient for Jasmine. Cordy not being there was a game changer. Had she been there for Wesley to turn to, Connor's kidnapping may have gone very differently.
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Old 06-05-2020, 02:23 PM
  #43
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Good question. I've seen Angel's thing for his car (and not letting anyone drive it) in many a CA fic.

There was this moment in First Impressions:


https://therearenopeoplelikeus.tumbl...t/187052967555

I can't think of any others, but Cordy does seem really excited like driving his car isn't something that happens often.
Ha. Yup, that quite heavily suggests that she considered it a miracle that he was letting someone else drive his car.

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I vote for TSILA because it's the one I've seen the least of the three, but I'll happily watch any of them.
Works for me!

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That's so cute. I need to re-read LTC.
I just re-read Friends and Neighbors.
I just re-read Cursed and am now re-reading 'Sleeping with Tigers'.

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Thanks for the rec. Will check it out.
It's a good fic.
Basically Angel is in a deep brood mode over Darla (because he couldn't save her) and Willow invites he and Cordy to Sunnydale for Christmas to help cheer him up.
It's not actually a Christmas fic that just provided the excuse to get them to Sunnydale but it's about how this trip tests both old and developing feelings.

Fair warning:

Angel has pretty much a 'Chosen' kiss scene with Buffy except it's a bit more mature as it's more about testing his feelings than out of numbness and while it, of course, still doesn't sit well with Cordy, it serves to provide him with more direct closure than Buffy's death did in 'Heartthrob'.

There is also a bit of heavy Buffy bashing but as in all CA fics she's made to sort of need/deserve it because she's immature about CA.

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Wow, if that's true I never caught that. Not saying her name even once...hmm that is a bit weird. Then again, Groo wasn't his birth name, but a name he'd earned and felt honor in being called by. So maybe the princess title was his idea of being respectful? IDK.
Again, it's possible I'm just not remembering as I haven't re-watched the season 3 Groo arc but I'm 99% sure he never uses her name.

Valid point about his own name.
In retrospect, the one person I can recall Groo referring to by name is Angel which also happens to NOT be a birth name but one bestowed onto a strong and respected warrior even if the bestower was Angel himself or so Groo probably assumed.

Angel has said at least once, specifically in "Untouched": "It's just a name" but I headcanon that he chose it in honor of his sister Kathy who had welcomed Angelus and her death into their home believing him an angel (Arguably that's where the Latin name Angelus and the moniker 'The demon with the face of an angel' came from as well).

Groo's birth name is no doubt a reference of revulsion since he's considered an abomination in Pylea (like Quasimodo which literally translates to 'Half-Formed') so I can see him being wary of birth names.

Though one would think Cordy would have a talk with him about it. I understand that she enjoys being a princess until it comes down to unwanted, vision stealing cumshucking but to never have her partner use her given name? I suppose that is part of how she was OOC during that time.


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Fred did tease Cordy a bit about Angel's feelings for her in WITW:

Quote:
Fred: "And then we have to find a dress for you. Something that will make Angel crazy."
Cordy: "Fred, sweetie. Angel *is* crazy."
Fred: "Well, I know he's gonna wanna look his best for you."

But Cordy brushed it aside as if Fred was joking or reading Angel wrong. Maybe others did mention it off screen and Cordy similarly laughed it off because she wasn't ready to believe/didn't think he ever wound want her that way?
Oh right, that.
Damn that girl was buried so deep in denial it's kinda ridiculous.

Although the dress she ended up with was a bit redundant of her prom dress, it did succeed in driving Angel crazy. His eyes had never fallen so far out of their sockets.

Though the dress probably didn't matter, it was how she embodied it---and no doubt a bit of how much skin it showed, we do see later on that there is still a bit of Liam in him.





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Plus, Groo's return and Cordy leaving was just so convenient for Jasmine.
No, it was too convenient to be a coincidence.

I've suggested this before but while Groo clearly was not a willing participant or even aware that he was one at all, I feel Jasmine deliberately threw him in between CA.

1. The timing could not have been more sublime as Angel was right in the middle of going for that next step.

2. Groo was a guaranteed safe distraction from Angel that provided the time needed to insta-grow Connor.

3. Someone with an agenda had to have steered Groo to the Hyperion. There is no way he would have found Cordy by himself with how huge L.A alone is nevermind Earth. He wouldn't have even known how to use the internet or a phone book or even what those things are.

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Cordy not being there was a game changer. Had she been there for Wesley to turn to, Connor's kidnapping may have gone very differently.
I argue Connor's kidnapping wouldn't have happened at all.
She would not have allowed it.

If she did fear the prophecy she would have been a lot smarter and talked to Angel or at least not have practically baited Connor for Holtz by wandering around with him out in the open. Do we even know where Wesley was going? Did he know?

I can see her taking Connor to her apartment and revoking Angel's invite or perhaps even going so far as to getting Buffy involved. For Connor, she would have tossed their unresolved issues and the awkwardness of explaining his existence through that portal to Quor-Toth that Holtz jumped into.

I can't recall whether the contamination to Angel's blood supply was identified before or after the kidnapping but if it was before as I lean more towards feeling, that definitely would have made Cordy skeptical. It screams W&H set up like her planted visions.
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Old 06-06-2020, 06:31 PM
  #44
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Still on for tonight? I'll be on discord gaming, so I'll be easy to reach.

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Yup, that quite heavily suggests that she considered it a miracle that he was letting someone else drive his car.
She's so cute there. And the way she turns to Wesley with that look like 'Hah ha! I get to drive his car and you don't'.

Quote:
It's a good fic.
Basically Angel is in a deep brood mode over Darla (because he couldn't save her) and Willow invites he and Cordy to Sunnydale for Christmas to help cheer him up.
It's not actually a Christmas fic that just provided the excuse to get them to Sunnydale but it's about how this trip tests both old and developing feelings.
I read it last night and it was super cute.

I loved when The Scoobies found CA cuddling. I'm trash for cuddles in fics lol.

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Angel has said at least once, specifically in "Untouched": "It's just a name" but I headcanon that he chose it in honor of his sister Kathy who had welcomed Angelus and her death into their home believing him an angel (Arguably that's where the Latin name Angelus and the moniker 'The demon with the face of an angel' came from as well).
It's interesting to think about how he got his name.

I also imagine Angelus originally took on that moniker as a twisted mockery of his sister calling him one. I wonder when he started going by 'Angel' and dropped the 'us'. And why did he decide to drop the 'us' (if it was indeed him)? I can see it being him reclaiming it by taking on what Kathy called him.

Kathy was his sister's name, right? My memory sucks. I should know this with all the CA fic I read lol.

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Quasimodo which literally translates to 'Half-Formed'
I did not know that. Good fact.

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I understand that she enjoys being a princess until it comes down to unwanted, vision stealing cumshucking but to never have her partner use her given name? I suppose that is part of how she was OOC during that time.
Yeah, being called 'Princess' is cute and all, but it'd get a little...dehumanizing? too impersonal? (not sure what to call it) to have him never use her name? It'd feel kinda like a 'are you in love with me or just the idea of me as your princess?' thing.

I love that that's the line he focused on. Of course.

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Someone with an agenda had to have steered Groo to the Hyperion. There is no way he would have found Cordy by himself with how huge L.A alone is never mind Earth. He wouldn't have even known how to use the internet or a phone book or even what those things are.
Holy crap. Why did I never consider where Groo came from before? I guess I always assumed he found Lorne's cousin in Pylea for info and, in turn, Lorne, when he got to L.A. But you're right that he'd need immediate help upon getting to Earth bc things would be so wildly different from Pylea. The portals were randomized too. He could've arrived half way across the world and had to journey to L.A.

The idea of Skip or a Jasmine minion steering him in the right direction? It tracts.
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Old 06-06-2020, 11:12 PM
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It took her a few years...but in the end she was right. She got her man.
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