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Old 08-01-2019, 09:15 PM
  #16
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Considering the illusion was induced, however, perhaps there is a significant difference.
Yeah, I can't imagine a normal run of the mill fantasy being on the same level as a magical one. I've never confused my daydreams for reality, for one thing.

Quote:
Personally, because Buffy proved that it was about the person not achieving orgasm contrary to Cordy's own (possibly denial induced) misconception, it stands to reason sex needn't be involved.
Yeah, I wonder what Cordy's fixation on that was. It was like she needed to constantly remind herself he was a 'no-bone'...maybe to help distance herself from her own feelings and attraction to him?

Quote:
Exactly the reason I believe Angel could never bring himself to pursue a romantic relationship with Cordy and that Connor didn't break the curse because Angel knew to keep his happiness in check.
I read a fic where he lost his soul after basically because of this. Connor was still a baby, things were good on the baddie front, and Cordy told him she loved him. Bam. No more soul. (But oh, how I love the pain. )

Speaking of Cordy & Fred death parallels...


https://whatisyourchildhoodtrauma.tu...5x125x15#notes

Quote:
he's apparently looking to appeal to the Kalderashs to release him from the curse so he can be with Nina
LMAFO what? Since when is Nina someone who could make him lose his soul? Wasn't the whole point that she wasn't a risk to the curse?
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:54 PM
  #17
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I think Cordelia was very much in denial about her attraction to Angel that’s why she convinced herself that Angel’s curse being broken was about the sex instead of the person which we know isn’t true. There was a lot of denial from both Cangel which is one of the reasons they missed their chance.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:34 PM
  #18
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Yeah, I wonder what Cordy's fixation on that was. It was like she needed to constantly remind herself he was a 'no-bone'...maybe to help distance herself from her own feelings and attraction to him?
Precisely.
That's my theory, that she exaggerated the danger of the curse to justify avoiding her feelings for Angel because:

1. Subconsciously she was still competing with Buffy.
2. Her experience with Xander, eventually Wilson, and probably her parents as although we never meet them I can believe that they're the neglectful *******s fanfics portray them as considering their only response to the rebar was to send flowers. Or am I confusing canon with fanon again and they didn't even do that?
Not to mention her experience being hurt by Angel himself. First by his rejection in Sunnydale and then his beige period.

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I read a fic where he lost his soul after basically because of this. Connor was still a baby, things were good on the baddie front, and Cordy told him she loved him. Bam. No more soul. (But oh, how I love the pain. )
I believe I know the one:
What Now? by Dock.
Angel watches Cordy playing with Baby Connor, he admits his feelings for her and that he wants them to be a family, she reciprocates and BAM, Angelus crashes the party.
It's terrifying but brilliant how it's the simplest of moments.

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Speaking of Cordy & Fred death parallels...


https://whatisyourchildhoodtrauma.tu...5x125x15#notes
Wow didn't even pick up on that.
I did like Fresley. I'd rooted for them since their first moment on screen together when Wesley said "That wild girl just saved our lives" and was pissed that it literally lasted one episode before she died.

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LMAFO what? Since when is Nina someone who could make him lose his soul? Wasn't the whole point that she wasn't a risk to the curse?
When I read the back of the first issue in my local comic shop a few years back I could have sworn it said something like "so he can find happiness, maybe with Nina Ash" but I checked BA Wikia and this is how it's summarized there:

Quote:
Angel travels to Romania to find Clan Kalderash, and ask them to amend the Ritual of Restoration to allow him happiness. Instead, he finds the Clan struggling against the oppressive regime of Corneliu Brasov. Caught in the fight, is only direct descendant of Magda of the Kalderash: Natalya of the Kalderash, who may be the only one capable of removing the curse.
Judging by the panels we're admiring it seems Cordelia's death is part of what inspires him to find a solution to the curse and it's written by Jeff Mariotte.
I've read a couple of his Angel novels and from what I've read thus far they're the best in the bunch. He's fantastic, probably because he's worked under Joss's guidance so knows the characters personally.

Now that I know Nina is not involved I might have to check these out.
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Old 08-02-2019, 03:01 AM
  #19
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I think you are confusing canon with fanon because I don’t Remember Cordelia’s parents sending flowers on the show. I could be wrong but it doesn’t ring a bell.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:17 AM
  #20
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I think you are confusing canon with fanon because I don’t Remember Cordelia’s parents sending flowers on the show. I could be wrong but it doesn’t ring a bell.
Yeah I kinda figured.
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Old 08-04-2019, 08:17 PM
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Wow what a parallel.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:21 AM
  #22
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Someone needs to make a gifset of all the mentions of Cordy's home life/parents 'cause we know so little and it'd be useful/great to have it all in one place.

Did she ever mention her parents in ATS? I feel like maybe once or twice...they never visited. They were so absentee. Flop parents, for sure.

Quote:
I believe I know the one:
What Now? by Dock.
Yes. I love Dock's work.

Quote:
I've read a couple of his Angel novels and from what I've read thus far they're the best in the bunch. He's fantastic, probably because he's worked under Joss's guidance so knows the characters personally.
Like, paperback novels i.e. not comics? I might have to check them out. I never read any of the ATS novels before. I read some BTVS and they did not do it for me -- plus fanfic is right there -- so I stopped bothering.

I downloaded one of the ATS novels that was published around the time S3 was airing and it has some cute C/A in it from what I've skimmed of it. I need to read it properly and post the passages here.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:39 AM
  #23
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https://wordsandzombies.tumblr.com/post/42548495319

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Old 08-07-2019, 10:40 AM
  #24
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dp.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:26 AM
  #25
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Someone needs to make a gifset of all the mentions of Cordy's home life/parents 'cause we know so little and it'd be useful/great to have it all in one place.
Sorry, no can do. The only animation education I have is brief After Effects video coverage in my graphic design classes. As such, I possess zero GIF skills.

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Did she ever mention her parents in ATS? I feel like maybe once or twice...they never visited. They were so absentee. Flop parents, for sure.
I can recall two mentions in AtS:

1. In 'Sense and Sensitivity' Angel tells Cordy that her mom had called the office looking for her but Cordy totally ignored.

Though I'm not sure that's logical considering her parents were in jail for most if not all of AtS as Tax Evasion/Fraud is a maximum 5-year sentence. This isn't established on-screen but by a producer in the 'I'm Cordelia' DVD featurette.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0twZ...index=54&t=64s

2. In one of the Pylea episodes, 'Through the Looking Glass' I think, she mentions the IRS thing to Groo while he's telling her literally his life story.


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Like, paperback novels i.e. not comics? I might have to check them out. I never read any of the ATS novels before. I read some BTVS and they did not do it for me -- plus fanfic is right there -- so I stopped bothering.
Yes published paperback novels. They're available on Amazon. As they're by a variety of authors some are better than others.
So far my favorite, of course, a Jeff Mariotte is 'Haunted'.
It's post-'Dead End' but pre-Pylea season 2 and does CA in such a clever way that it appeals to both shippers and those who prefer them as friends.

One author I DO NOT recommend is Doranne Durgin. I adore her 'Ghost Whisperer' work but she pretty bad with 'Angel'.

For clarity, I'm pretty sure they're just glorified fanfiction.

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Originally Posted by straws (View Post)
I downloaded one of the ATS novels that was published around the time S3 was airing and it has some cute C/A in it from what I've skimmed of it. I need to read it properly and post the passages here.
Ooh which is it?


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IT'S CONFIRMED! I KNEW IT!
I KNEW they were all vamps! Just look at the reunion pictures, no one really looked different! Especially CC and DB.


UPDATE:
I just came across an old comment in the following video that revealed another DB ad-lib:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uYw...n&index=2&t=0s

That big ole 'Halloween' flirt smile in BtVS. Yeah apparently Angel was supposed to look uncomfortable and disgusted but DB just couldn't do it.
All hail DB for giving us BtVS CA!
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Last edited by Ashes Fall; 08-07-2019 at 02:26 PM
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Old 08-08-2019, 04:36 PM
  #26
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Sorry, no can do. The only animation education I have is brief After Effects video coverage in my graphic design classes. As such, I possess zero GIF skills.
I want to make it but my computer is so slow now it takes hours to make gifsets and I just can't justify wasting that kind of time.

Quote:
1. In 'Sense and Sensitivity' Angel tells Cordy that her mom had called the office looking for her but Cordy totally ignored.

Though I'm not sure that's logical considering her parents were in jail for most if not all of AtS as Tax Evasion/Fraud is a maximum 5-year sentence. This isn't established on-screen but by a producer in the 'I'm Cordelia' DVD featurette.
Well, inmates do get to make phone calls in prison, so it's possible.

Also, I didn't know that her parents being in jail was confirmed canon. I always assume they fled the country and went into hiding, which is why they never saw Cordy--and also went to show how awful they were since they left her behind.

Quote:
It's post-'Dead End' but pre-Pylea season 2 and does CA in such a clever way that it appeals to both shippers and those who prefer them as friends.
You're making me want to read it.

Quote:
For clarity, I'm pretty sure they're just glorified fanfiction.
Oh, for sure. (and I prefer fanfic, because fic is way more shippy and smutty lol) But I'm desperate for C/A content and will take them in any form I can get.

Quote:
That big ole 'Halloween' flirt smile in BtVS. Yeah apparently Angel was supposed to look uncomfortable and disgusted but DB just couldn't do it.
All hail DB for giving us BtVS CA!
Yeah, I caught that too when I read the Halloween shooting script years ago. The CC x DB friendship was too strong for Angel to convincingly dislike Cordy.

But knowing where CA went, Angel being charmed by her despite himself is totally ATS S1 canon-compliant and makes Angel's statement to Cordy about "I like them both" (the old her and new her) ring true because even way in BTVS S2 we see it.

Quote:
Ooh which is it?
It's The Longest Night.

Like, I said, I haven't read much of it, but there's some cute bits with definite C/A subtext.

Quote:
“Coincidence. Hmph.” Cordelia, trim and attractive, leaned back in the high chair behind the desk. Her expression was stern now, and she looked like the prettiest judge in the world. All that she needed to complete the effect were a robe and gavel. “Daddy used to say there was no such thing as a coincidence.”
Prettiest judge in the world . Angel does say she's the most beautiful woman he's ever seen WITW.

Quote:
“Are you really sure about this?” Angel asked. He was watching Fred weave red-and-green bunting between the balustrades on the stairway and having second thoughts.Or tenth ones, more accurately.

“Sure I’m sure,” Cordelia said. She wore a long, clingy, deep red dress that shimmered like moonlight on the sea when she moved. Her rich brown hair was pinned up at the back, and a luminescence danced in her eyes. She had been looking forward to this night, Angel knew, and now it was here. “Angel, you can’t change your mind now. Again. It’s too late, there are already guests here. And I don’t understand how you can possibly not like parties.”

“It’s really not hard,” he said. “I just think about how much not-fun I’ve had at them over the centuries.”

“But—gaiety and laughter and good cheer. People having fun together. It’s great.”

“People acting much sillier than they do in small bunches, which is already pretty ridiculous to begin with much of the time. Sorry, Cordy. I understand they’re sometimes a necessary evil, but—”

“Look who’s talkin’,” Gunn said.

“What?” Angel asked. “Me?”

“Not evil,” Cordelia assured Gunn. “Just not exactly Mr. Sociable.”

Angel looked at her for a moment until she added, “And definitely necessary.” She brushed his arm with one hand and then went to the door to greet more guests.
Quote:
As he watched them fade into the crowd, Angel thought, I may have the name, but sometimes I think Cordelia’s the real angel around here.
^^this was after Cordy swooped in and saved him from a socializing blunder
Quote:
“Hasn’t Angel come back yet? And the others?” Fred’s expression was one of concern—brow furrowed, lips pursed. “I was hoping they wouldn’t have to miss much of the party.”

“Wes and Gunn probably agree with you,” Cordelia told her. She doesn’t know them well enough yet to understand how much Angel hates forced sociability, she thought. “But Angel probably wouldn’t mind not coming back until the last guest has gone home and all the dishes are done.”

The Host tugged at the lapels of his bright red dinner jacket. “I think I’m with Fred on this one,” he said.“I know Angel isn’t a party machine, but I think he’d try to stay close to home tonight if he could. He knows how much this little soiree means to you, hostess with the mostest.”

Cordelia shrugged. “Somehow I don’t think Angel makes his decisions based on what he thinks I care about, Lorne. He’s his own man.”

“He is that,” the green-faced demon agreed. “And part of being his own man is that he cares about you,little lady. Angel likes it when you’re happy, and if it takes attending your party to do that, then he’d do what he could to make sure he was there.”

“I think Lorne’s right,” Fred put in. “Angel wouldn’t have been gone this long unless there was something important going on.”
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:24 PM
  #27
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I want to make it but my computer is so slow now it takes hours to make gifsets and I just can't justify wasting that kind of time.
ARG computer slowness how I hate you! My condolences.

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Originally Posted by straws (View Post)
Well, inmates do get to make phone calls in prison, so it's possible.
But can outsiders call them?

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Originally Posted by straws (View Post)
Also, I didn't know that her parents being in jail was confirmed canon. I always assume they fled the country and went into hiding, which is why they never saw Cordy--and also went to show how awful they were since they left her behind.
I suppose it's a matter of opinion since it's said exclusively BTS.
A lot of Harry Potter fans don't consider statements stated by J.K Rowling but not established in the text such as Dumbledore's homosexuality as canon.
I've read NO fanfics that put Cordy's parents in prison, all go the fled the country route. Probably for the reason you stated, it better paints them as neglectful.

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You're making me want to read it.
DO EET!
Cordy gets cast to compete in a reality show in which a group of people has to live in a "Haunted" house for a 100K prize but she's also hoping for a jump start to her acting career.
There are some good narratives where Angel contemplates how he's watched her grow and will miss her.

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Originally Posted by straws (View Post)
Oh, for sure. (and I prefer fanfic, because fic is way more shippy and smutty lol) But I'm desperate for C/A content and will take them in any form I can get.
Amen!

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Originally Posted by straws (View Post)
Yeah, I caught that too when I read the Halloween shooting script years ago. The CC x DB friendship was too strong for Angel to convincingly dislike Cordy.

But knowing where CA went, Angel being charmed by her despite himself is totally ATS S1 canon-compliant and makes Angel's statement to Cordy about "I like them both" (the old her and new her) ring true because even way in BTVS S2 we see it.
So true!

There is also Angel's comment to Buffy that he hated the women of his time "Especially the noblewomen. They were just incredibly dull. Simpering morons, the lot of
them. I always wished I could meet someone... exciting. Interesting."


Cordy is the exact polar opposite of an 18th-century woman, strong, independent, outspoken, alpha! Even in BtVS, though she was more or less a 20th-century noblewoman she could never be accused of being dull, uninteresting or a moron.

I can't see Angel disliking her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by straws (View Post)
It's The Longest Night.

Like, I said, I haven't read much of it, but there's some cute bits with definite C/A subtext.

Quote:
"Coincidence. Hmph.” Cordelia, trim and attractive, leaned back in the high chair behind the desk. Her expression was stern now, and she looked like the prettiest judge in the world. All that she needed to complete the effect were a robe and gavel. “Daddy used to say there was no such thing as a coincidence.”
Prettiest judge in the world . Angel does say she's the most beautiful woman he's ever seen WITW.

Quote:
As he watched them fade into the crowd, Angel thought, I may have the name, but sometimes I think Cordelia’s the real angel around here.
^^this was after Cordy swooped in and saved him from a socializing blunder

Quote:
“Hasn’t Angel come back yet? And the others?” Fred’s expression was one of concern—brow furrowed, lips pursed. “I was hoping they wouldn’t have to miss much of the party.”

“Wes and Gunn probably agree with you,” Cordelia told her. She doesn’t know them well enough yet to understand how much Angel hates forced sociability, she thought. “But Angel probably wouldn’t mind not coming back until the last guest has gone home and all the dishes are done.”

The Host tugged at the lapels of his bright red dinner jacket. “I think I’m with Fred on this one,” he said.“I know Angel isn’t a party machine, but I think he’d try to stay close to home tonight if he could. He knows how much this little soiree means to you, hostess with the mostest.”

Cordelia shrugged. “Somehow I don’t think Angel makes his decisions based on what he thinks I care about, Lorne. He’s his own man.”

“He is that,” the green-faced demon agreed. “And part of being his own man is that he cares about you,little lady. Angel likes it when you’re happy, and if it takes attending your party to do that, then he’d do what he could to make sure he was there.”

“I think Lorne’s right,” Fred put in. “Angel wouldn’t have been gone this long unless there was something important going on.”
EEEEP! That sounds like exquisite canon-compliant writing! So gonna read this!
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Last edited by Ashes Fall; 08-08-2019 at 10:09 PM
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Old 08-11-2019, 02:24 PM
  #28
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Nooooo! I accidentally backspaced mid-sentence and my entire post got deleted. It was a long one too, and now I'm too mad to retype it.
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Old 08-11-2019, 08:36 PM
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I've been there. Just a few posts ago actually, I had to redo a post because FF screwed up.
You HAVE to retype your post or the conversation will die! PLEASE!
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:34 PM
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Okay, attempting to type this again. *crosses fingers*

Quote:
But can outsiders call them?
IDK because I am not American, nor have I tried to make a phone call to an American prison. I assume family can contact the prison and important messages can be passed on provided that the people working at the prison/guards aren't complete *******s. So, maybe Cordy couldn't call her back and could only wait for her mom to get phone privileges again.

In any case, I much prefer the explanation that her parents fled the country, because as you said, it's pretty much canon to me after all the fic I read.
Quote:
DO EET!
Cordy gets cast to compete in a reality show in which a group of people has to live in a "Haunted" house for a 100K prize but she's also hoping for a jump start to her acting career.
There are some good narratives where Angel contemplates how he's watched her grow and will miss her.
Cordy competing in a reality show about going in a haunted house sounds like it could've been a hilarious and awesome episode of the actual show.

Cordy already lives with one ghost and helped kick poltergeist butt, she'd totally win that competition. Plus, I can't see the reality show's antics scaring her considering her usual job is being a seer for TPTB and working for a vampire.

Quote:
There is also Angel's comment to Buffy that he hated the women of his time "Especially the noblewomen. They were just incredibly dull. Simpering morons, the lot of
them. I always wished I could meet someone... exciting. Interesting."

Cordy is the exact polar opposite of an 18th-century woman, strong, independent, outspoken, alpha! Even in BtVS, though she was more or less a 20th-century noblewoman she could never be accused of being dull, uninteresting or a moron.

I can't see Angel disliking her.
Agreed.

Plus, Cordy--even Queen C mean girl Cordy--was always so full of life, and considering how lonely and cut off Sunnydale Angel was, I can see part of him being drawn in by that. I think he was both unsure how to handle her attention bc he's a socially awkward dork but also that he secretly liked it. He never verbally rejected her advances and even sought her out in Some Assembly Required. Sure, he claimed he was looking for Buffy, but he's a vampire, he can track Buffy by scent. He knew that wasn't Buffy.
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