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Old 02-23-2020, 01:41 PM
  #241
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That psychotic!Angel scene should have won an Emmy along with the kiss in YW!
Easily CA's best two scenes!
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Old 02-23-2020, 04:27 PM
  #242
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Dawww. Missed you too.
So glad to see life in this thread again.
Welcome back . Hope you're doing well.

I have a question for this thread. Can anyone tell me anything about the Angel Legacy Edition Book One comics? I saw one at the mall and was only able to briefly look through it before I had to go. It seemed to have stories in it based around S1. Cordy and Doyle were in it, and it also showed some of the aftermath of Doyle's death. I'm not used to the Angel comics having our Queen C in them so I was surprised/happy to see her.

There was also a really cute moment of Cordy and Angel after losing Doyle. Angel was about to check out something potentially dangerous and Cordy was all "I'm coming with you" and Angel said back "No. You're not. I can't afford to lose you too."

It had big Protective CA energy.

I'm thinking about purchasing the volume. Hopefully there is more CA content than that one moment, but as I said, I didn't get to look through it long. Has anyone here read it?
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Old 02-24-2020, 12:54 PM
  #243
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Last Friday, the rewatch of Angel on a french network finished. And I've got another master of perception watching Power Play.

So, first I've got to say that I didn't really appreciate S5, the first part (til YW) was boring but the second part after YW was more dynamic and interesting.

But when I watched Powerplay and heard Angel say that Cordy gave him the vision and shows him where the "real power" was, It made me realize that Cordy was with him, in a certain way, during the last two months and made him more combative than he was in the first part of S5 and gave him more strength.
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:28 PM
  #244
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Welcome back . Hope you're doing well.
I'm well, thanx.
I had really only taken absence because the thread died.
I hope your finals went well.

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Originally Posted by straws (View Post)
I have a question for this thread. Can anyone tell me anything about the Angel Legacy Edition Book One comics? I saw one at the mall and was only able to briefly look through it before I had to go. It seemed to have stories in it based around S1. Cordy and Doyle were in it, and it also showed some of the aftermath of Doyle's death. I'm not used to the Angel comics having our Queen C in them so I was surprised/happy to see her.

There was also a really cute moment of Cordy and Angel after losing Doyle. Angel was about to check out something potentially dangerous and Cordy was all "I'm coming with you" and Angel said back "No. You're not. I can't afford to lose you too."

It had big Protective CA energy.

I'm thinking about purchasing the volume. Hopefully there is more CA content than that one moment, but as I said, I didn't get to look through it long. Has anyone here read it?
This confuses me.
I've not heard of this series but the preview offered on the Amazon page you provided shows it to be BTVS set, not AtS distinctive by panels containing BA and 'Sunnydale' setting tags.

What you're describing actually sounds a lot like this volume which I have:
https://www.amazon.com/Angel-Omnibus...s%2C225&sr=8-1

This collection contains stories set in season 1 as well that also explores the aftermath of Doyle's death including its effect on his ex-wife Harry.
There is also one story set in the time between Doyle's death and Wesley's entrance though it's a bit more of a Cordy solo as it follows her experience in a reality show she landed a spot in.

I ended up getting a deal on it at a used bookstore but it would have been well worth the full price as it's a fantastic collection. I wish we'd seen its content in the show.


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Originally Posted by Cangel91 (View Post)
Last Friday, the rewatch of Angel on a french network finished. And I've got another master of perception watching Power Play.

So, first I've got to say that I didn't really appreciate S5, the first part (til YW) was boring but the second part after YW was more dynamic and interesting.

But when I watched Powerplay and heard Angel say that Cordy gave him the vision and shows him where the "real power" was, It made me realize that Cordy was with him, in a certain way, during the last two months and made him more combative than he was in the first part of S5 and gave him more strength.
Meh. He was still something of a wreck after YW and the whole Jasmine 2.0 experience with Fred/Illyria didn't help.
- He willingly handed a newborn to a demon cult. I can vividly picture Cordy's disapproving look from the higher plane.
- He managed to do worse than his beige period when he intentionally betrayed the team, his family AGAIN for the purpose of a dangerous undercover mission. *Again, disapproving Cordy look (remember how she chewed him out for the Connor memory wipe)*
- Don't even get me started on TGIQ.
- NFA was more or less a suicide mission. EVERYONE except perhaps Lorne until he had to shoot Linsey had hit rock bottom and lost all reason to live.
I maintain that it was ATS when she'd legit restored his motivation.

I must admit that when he tells Wesley: "It all started 2 months ago, with a kiss" I had not expected the flashback to reveal him to have been referring to the YW kiss. I don't know what I was expecting but not that.

If it hadn't been established that the kiss had to have genuine love behind it, I'd say that reveal made a joke of that beautiful YW kiss and I can hear Joss hypothetically laughing. It would have been just like him to pull some **** like that.
I'm glad the love behind that kiss wasn't lost.
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:57 AM
  #245
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This collection contains stories set in season 1 as well that also explores the aftermath of Doyle's death including its effect on his ex-wife Harry.
There is also one story set in the time between Doyle's death and Wesley's entrance though it's a bit more of a Cordy solo as it follows her experience in a reality show she landed a spot in.

I ended up getting a deal on it at a used bookstore but it would have been well worth the full price as it's a fantastic collection. I wish we'd seen its content in the show.
The volume seemed like a collection of stories from various timelines. I think it did start in SD and it also had some Darla flashbacks.

It also said something about being in print for the first time in 10 years.

Description from Amazon:

Quote:
Officially picking up where the beloved Angel television series left off, this volume is the first of a collection of every printed Angel comic book, including hard to find and out of print stories.
So it's possible it's a reprint of Angel Omnibus or contains the stuff from Angel Omnibus. I wonder which one is the better purchase.

Quote:
Meh. He was still something of a wreck after YW and the whole Jasmine 2.0 experience with Fred/Illyria didn't help.
- He willingly handed a newborn to a demon cult. I can vividly picture Cordy's disapproving look from the higher plane.
- He managed to do worse than his beige period when he intentionally betrayed the team, his family AGAIN for the purpose of a dangerous undercover mission. *Again, disapproving Cordy look (remember how she chewed him out for the Connor memory wipe)*
- Don't even get me started on TGIQ.
- NFA was more or less a suicide mission. EVERYONE except perhaps Lorne until he had to shoot Linsey had hit rock bottom and lost all reason to live.
I maintain that it was ATS when she'd legit restored his motivation.
IA. Sadly it very much felt to me like Angel went on a suicide mission after he lost Cordy cause he'd completely given up. He stopped fighting the good fight to hurt the bad guys with a grand gesture. It was very against the lesson he learned in S2.

I love a lot of NFA and the final moments of it but I don't like how the show got there.

Quote:
If it hadn't been established that the kiss had to have genuine love behind it, I'd say that reveal made a joke of that beautiful YW kiss and I can hear Joss hypothetically laughing. It would have been just like him to pull some **** like that.
I'm glad the love behind that kiss wasn't lost.
I know what you mean. On one hand I love that we got a sneak attack Cangel kiss flashback and that Cordy was the one motivating Angel for that big fight when he finally broke away from W&H. Which would be all well and good if it wasn't a suicide mission and Angel didn't commit true evil to get it done. (I can't remember the name of the guy Angel kills but I basically have to head canon that the guy was in on the plan and gave his permission because otherwise wtf Angel, wtf?) I also can't see Cordy approving of what he did? That can't be what she gave him the visions for?

A part of me did also like seeing a Cordy clip in the penultimate episode (giving her a part in the grand send off) bc Joss had been trying so hard not to acknowledge her and CA's existence all season.

Everyone craps on S1 and I know it has it's issues and growing pains but I love that season so much. I love the potential the show had during that period and who Angel was then (not to mention, Cordy being alive! With no Jasmine plot line in sight!) We very much have lost that Angel by S5.

Quote:
So, first I've got to say that I didn't really appreciate S5, the first part (til YW) was boring but the second part after YW was more dynamic and interesting.
I don't care much for S5 as a whole but IA that the second half is better. I also really like Illyria.
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Old 02-26-2020, 12:01 PM
  #246
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I love that we see him taking her fashion advice.
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:42 PM
  #247
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The volume seemed like a collection of stories from various timelines. I think it did start in SD and it also had some Darla flashbacks.

It also said something about being in print for the first time in 10 years.

Description from Amazon:

Quote:
Officially picking up where the beloved Angel television series left off, this volume is the first of a collection of every printed Angel comic book, including hard to find and out of print stories.
So it's possible it's a reprint of Angel Omnibus or contains the stuff from Angel Omnibus. I wonder which one is the better purchase.
Yeah, I'm still confused. It'd be better if I could see the volume you're talking about in person.

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IA. Sadly it very much felt to me like Angel went on a suicide mission after he lost Cordy cause he'd completely given up. He stopped fighting the good fight to hurt the bad guys with a grand gesture. It was very against the lesson he learned in S2.
All of them except perhaps Lorne had hit rock bottom and seemed prepared, content even to die in that battle.


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Which would be all well and good if it wasn't a suicide mission and Angel didn't commit true evil to get it done. (I can't remember the name of the guy Angel kills but I basically have to head canon that the guy was in on the plan and gave his permission because otherwise wtf Angel, wtf?) I also can't see Cordy approving of what he did? That can't be what she gave him the visions for?
Are we talking about the guy guarding "the hole in the world" with the truth-telling curse? Yeah, I don't remember his name either and I barely remember that Angel had killed him.
What I remember best for some reason is that his curse was flawed because it didn't account for lies that are believed to be truths since he called Angel evil.

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A part of me did also like seeing a Cordy clip in the penultimate episode (giving her a part in the grand send off) bc Joss had been trying so hard not to acknowledge her and CA's existence all season.
Agreed. I did appreciate that Cordelia was given a role in that final battle and just general acknowledgment.

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Everyone craps on S1 and I know it has it's issues and growing pains but I love that season so much. I love the potential the show had during that period and who Angel was then (not to mention, Cordy being alive! With no Jasmine plot line in sight!) We very much have lost that Angel by S5.
Wait what? Everyone craps on S1? That's news to me.
Season 1 was the era of the outcasts.
It was when Angel and Cordelia were lost and found their way in each other and in Doyle and then helped Wesley find his way.

Granted I've seen some mixed opinions on Doyle, I believe there is a good fraction of fans who didn't like him though for some reason Cordelia/Doyle is considered a ship and the Wiki even lists Doyle as her ex-boyfriend even though it barely had a chance to show potential.

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I don't care much for S5 as a whole but IA that the second half is better. I also really like Illyria.
Sorry I have to disagree. I didn't care for any of season 5 and found Illyria to be a useless repeat of Jasmine that essentially stole Cordelia's death aftermath.
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Old 02-28-2020, 07:55 AM
  #248
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Yeah, I'm still confused. It'd be better if I could see the volume you're talking about in person.
I'll probably purchase it when I get the chance. I think I have the digital versions of Angel Omnibus somewhere. I should see if I can find them and take a look.

Quote:
Are we talking about the guy guarding "the hole in the world" with the truth-telling curse? Yeah, I don't remember his name either and I barely remember that Angel had killed him.
What I remember best for some reason is that his curse was flawed because it didn't account for lies that are believed to be truths since he called Angel evil.
Yeah, him.

That's such an interesting point re: the spell not catching lies that are believed to be truths.
I mean, if the person telling the lie believes it to be true, then for them, it is the truth, so I can see how that works.
I guess it would take a much more sophisticated spell to be able to discern such a thing? Plus the spell would need to basically be all knowing to be able to discount "fake truths". I also wonder how it would react to partial truths? And how does it decide what true is? Based on pure fact and no opinions?
This is why magic gives me a headache but it's fun to think about.
The simplest version of the spell does seem to be stopping the person from knowingly telling a lie.

Quote:
Wait what? Everyone craps on S1? That's news to me.
Season 1 was the era of the outcasts.
It was when Angel and Cordelia were lost and found their way in each other and in Doyle and then helped Wesley find his way.
Hard agree.
But, yeah from what I've seen over the years S1 doesn't tend to be one of the more popular seasons.
S1 has a lot of trial and error while the show tries to find what works and what doesn't/its tone (and it has a lot of weak one off episodes) but none of that bothers me. I find S1 so charming and comforting in its own way. So much more hopeful than so many of the other seasons. And yeah, I love seeing Cor, Angel, Doyle, and Wes find each other/get to know each other/try to make their place in the world and make a difference.

Plus the budding CA friendship/relationship is so perfect. How they are so different and bump heads yet slowly become vital in each other's lives.

I find myself re-watching S1 way more than the later half of S3, 4, or 5.

Quote:
Granted I've seen some mixed opinions on Doyle, I believe there is a good fraction of fans who didn't like him though for some reason Cordelia/Doyle is considered a ship and the Wiki even lists Doyle as her ex-boyfriend even though it barely had a chance to show potential.
I haven't seen too much Doyle dislike. Usually I find people are very protective of his character. He made a huge impact on the show/fandom for only having had 9(?) episodes.

Quote:
I didn't care for any of season 5 and found Illyria to be a useless repeat of Jasmine that essentially stole Cordelia's death aftermath.
I can see the similarities (all powerful begins takes over woman's body to be born and kills her, and I can see why people would be 'nope, I'm out' after that garbage dumpster fire version in S4) but I feel like Illyria was that plot done 'right'. I 100% believe Fred was in there still, despite what we were told, and that Joss was planning to bring her back had the show continued (kind of like we see in the comics). So for me it wasn't a senseless death for Fred, but an amazing opportunity for Amy Acker to flex her acting muscles and a super interesting plot to explore with Fred.

Unlike what happened to CC...but I don't get me started on my 9000th rant.
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:11 AM
  #249
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Old 02-28-2020, 11:01 AM
  #250
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That's such an interesting point re: the spell not catching lies that are believed to be truths.
I mean, if the person telling the lie believes it to be true, then for them, it is the truth, so I can see how that works.
I guess it would take a much more sophisticated spell to be able to discern such a thing? Plus the spell would need to basically be all knowing to be able to discount "fake truths". I also wonder how it would react to partial truths? And how does it decide what true is? Based on pure fact and no opinions?
This is why magic gives me a headache but it's fun to think about.
The simplest version of the spell does seem to be stopping the person from knowingly telling a lie.
This is precisely why magic is unreliable, too many grey areas.


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I find S1 so charming and comforting in its own way. So much more hopeful than so many of the other seasons. And yeah, I love seeing Cor, Angel, Doyle, and Wes find each other/get to know each other/try to make their place in the world and make a difference.

Plus the budding CA friendship/relationship is so perfect. How they are so different and bump heads yet slowly become vital in each other's lives.
As far as I'm concerned, it all worked.

It was the rise of all the characters no one had believed in, who were disrespected and took for granted in BtVS or in the case of Doyle just in life learning to believe in themselves by believing in each other.

Season 1 was CA's kyrumption by literal definition, destiny fulfilling itself. We saw the chemistry a bit in BTVS, how Cordelia was able to bring out a more lively and social side of Angel that no one else did. That was a sign from the universe and season 1 of AtS was the road that sign was pointing towards.

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I can see the similarities (all powerful begins takes over woman's body to be born and kills her, and I can see why people would be 'nope, I'm out' after that garbage dumpster fire version in S4) but I feel like Illyria was that plot done 'right'. I 100% believe Fred was in there still, despite what we were told, and that Joss was planning to bring her back had the show continued (kind of like we see in the comics). So for me it wasn't a senseless death for Fred, but an amazing opportunity for Amy Acker to flex her acting muscles and a super interesting plot to explore with Fred.

Unlike what happened to CC...but I don't get me started on my 9000th rant.
Cordelia was still in there as well, she just "wasn't driving" to use Skip's phrasing. This is also established when she herself reveals in YW that she remembers the entire horror show up until the coma.
I must grant that I've heard that there were plans to revive her from her coma and have her be the one to off Jasmine instead of Connor but due to her full-term pregnancy that was about ready to pop, CC wasn't able to give such a performance.

Execution aside, Illyria's character was pointless. She did nothing but mope around with no idea what to do with herself after finding her kingdom in ruins and seemingly comfortable doing so.
Though I'll admit that there was some depth to the Illyria/Wesley relationship which of course had to be destroyed like everything else!

I did also hear that in the original plans for season 6, as the cancelation was abrupt, Willow was going to crossover to help find a way to split Fred from Illyria.

Fred was still revived in the comics but Illyria was not eliminated. Instead, Illyria and Fred seem to agree to joint custody of Fred's body.
Starry, I believe it was (unless it was you, it was definitely someone here) once told me that in the comic series considered season 11 though it seems to continue from Angel and Faith, it's Angel, Illyria, and Fred and apparently Illyria and Angel become lovers with Fred's blessing!

The bull isn't done ****ting there. I actually once glanced at an issue in my local comic shop and Illyria of all people not even Fred which would have made a bit more sense gave Angel a speech that sounded verbatim like something that would come from Cordy.
At first glance, it seemed like a rather good arc. Somehow Angel and Illyria/Fred travel back in time to the night Angelus slaughtered his family and is able to hold his sister and tell her how much he's missed her. Angel wants to dust Angelus to save his family and his countless other victims and Illyria has to talk him out of it by reminding him that it would also erase all the good he's done, all the lives he's saved with his soul as Angel would never come to exist.

Actually, however, Fred's first comeback was in ATS.

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https://therearenopeoplelikeus.tumbl...t/190949166075

I love that we see him taking her fashion advice.
I meant to respond to this in my last post and forgot.

It's crossed my mind how many times we see Angel wearing color in season 1 alone.

i.e He wears a dark green shirt in 'Eternity' during the whole drugged!Angelus experience, another green shirt in 'Parting Gifts' when Cordelia kisses him to try to get rid of the visions and a deep red shirt I think in 'To Shanshu'.
I believe we also see him in blue.

Could this be a certain influence?


I love how Angel throws her this: "Shut up, what is wrong with your brain woman?!" look.
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Old 02-28-2020, 07:30 PM
  #251
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Thanks for posting some of my gifsets here
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:47 PM
  #252
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Blah. I have been as sick as a dog all week. Just trying to post now is making my head spinny. Hope y'all cangel fans are in better health than I.

Quote:
I love how Angel throws her this: "Shut up, what is wrong with your brain woman?!" look.
I feel like she got that look a lot in S1. Though I also think her lack of tack ultimately became one of the CordyTM things he couldn't help but love about her.
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Old 03-05-2020, 04:38 PM
  #253
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Blah. I have been as sick as a dog all week. Just trying to post now is making my head spinny. Hope y'all cangel fans are in better health than I.
Aw. :hugs: feel better.

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I feel like she got that look a lot in S1. Though I also think her lack of tack ultimately became one of the CordyTM things he couldn't help but love about her.
Or judging by their BtVS moments perhaps he secretly always loved it.
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Old 03-15-2020, 01:35 PM
  #254
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Or judging by their BtVS moments perhaps he secretly always loved it.
I can get behind this as well.
Quote:
Aw. :hugs: feel better.
Thanks. How's everyone doing? The news is so scary right now.

Quote:
i.e He wears a dark green shirt in 'Eternity' during the whole drugged!Angelus experience, another green shirt in 'Parting Gifts' when Cordelia kisses him to try to get rid of the visions and a deep red shirt I think in 'To Shanshu'.
I believe we also see him in blue.
I like to believe it was him taking her advice.

And then later on (like in S3) he also wears more color because he knows it makes her happy and that she wants to see him wear more than just black.
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Old 03-15-2020, 11:51 PM
  #255
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Nice gifset.
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