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Old 04-30-2018, 06:41 PM
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Any favorite scene in the torture season 4? lol
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:19 PM
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I actually really loved the scene where Oz showed Willow that he could control his wolf transformation during a full moon

also the scene which this thread title is based on
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:34 AM
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Any favorite scene in the torture season 4? lol
Their goodbye in Wild at Heart. Yours?
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:10 PM
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It's a toss up between the scene when Oz showed Willow how he finally learned how to control his wolf side or when Willow told Oz that a part of her will always be waiting for him.

Both scenes were sad and important.
I always wished that down the line Willow would be waiting for him which is why I wished the writers would've made Willow bisexual for she can be a person who loved who the person was, not just falling in and out with a gender. Sadly we can't change it but that's how I would have written it.
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Old 05-02-2018, 02:01 AM
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I think a part of her will always be waiting for him. I am sure of it. I don't think she turned out to be a full fledged lesbian after Oz left.
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Old 05-02-2018, 12:20 PM
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^ Unfortunately if I am going by the way it was written, I truly believe she did... I mean even in an episode of season 7 when all the girls were under a spell of falling for the same guy, Willow said that she can turn him to a girl when they mentioned how he was a man.

They completely wrote her as a lesbian from everything that I watched...
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Old 05-02-2018, 12:39 PM
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they set her up liking girls starting in that S3 episode the wish so there were hints of what was going to happen in S4 but I do think she's ultimately bi but liking girls more in the later seasons but the thing with Kennedy was so unnecessary
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Old 05-03-2018, 09:00 AM
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I don't care how it was written, in my mind, she was bi

They didn't have the same understanding of sexuality as they do now - plus, so many different writers were involved in Willow's story, so I'd say that would all write her differently at different times. I doubt the people writing Willow in seasons 1-3 wrote Oz as a 'phase' to her, even if they knew that they might explore a lesbian storyline with her down the road. She didn't date & fall in love with Oz because of 'the evils of heteronomativity', it was real. She can say she's gay, but she's been attracted to & in love with men before, so I don't see why it would be impossible again even if 99% of the people she's attracted to are women

Anyway, I got off track

My fave season 4 scene is definitely the goodbye in his van, it was so heartbreaking because it was obvious there was still so much love there, & a little bit of hope for the future, even though they were parting.
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:24 AM
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I'm just going by what I've seen... They literally made Willow not be attracted to any guys after Oz. It wasn't even a hint of it.

They made it ALL Girls or nothing at all....
I guess I go by what's shown on screen. lol

I do believe she very much loved Oz but after Oz, she just didn't...

And Willow HERSELF idenitied to herself as a lesbian. "Hello, gay no."

It's how it was written!
If it was me, I would have written her as a bisexual but we can't pretend that Willow was written as a bisexual late season 4-7... there was zero hint of any attraction towards women... and Willow herself identified herself as a gay woman.

So are we going to say that Willow was going crazy and she was in denial? lolol

I do believe BTVS writers should've done a better job at Willow being a lesbian though which was probably why fans were a little confused....
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:25 AM
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I'm just going by what I've seen... They literally made Willow not be attracted to any guys after Oz. It wasn't even a hint of it.

They made it ALL Girls or nothing at all....
I guess I go by what's shown on screen. lol

I do believe she very much loved Oz but after Oz, she just didn't...

And Willow HERSELF idenitied to herself as a lesbian. "Hello, gay no."

It's how it was written!
If it was me, I would have written her as a bisexual but we can't pretend that Willow was written as a bisexual late season 4-7... there was zero hint of any attraction towards women... and Willow herself identified herself as a gay woman.

So are we going to say that Willow was going crazy and she was in denial? lolol

I do believe BTVS writers should've done a better job at Willow being a lesbian though which was probably why fans were a little confused....

Willow as a bi would've made more sense to me but... yeah. loll
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:49 AM
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I know Willow herself said she was gay - but she's fictional character, not a real person, so I think it's open to interpretation. Especially, as I said, so many people were involved with the portrayal of her character & they probably weren't always on the same page with what they were depicting.

I don't think saying that I view her as bisexual equates to saying that 'Willow was going crazy and she was in denial?' I just think that it's possible she realized that she was attracted to women, & took that to mean that she was gay. Besides, it's not uncommon for people to just say gay when what they mean is not straight.

I think this just pushes my buttons because a few weeks ago someone posted on one of my Willow/Oz gifsets about how Willow was always gay, but she was just flattered that Oz paid attention to her & she was brainwashed by heteronormativity, so that's why she was with him for two years. I don't care if that's what people believe - but why hijack my post with that? I've also seen people say seen people comment that it's 'disrespectful' to ship Willow with a man & I just can't

Anyway, I'm not changing my opinion. It's a tv show, & what I'm headcannoning isn't baseless, we did see Willow in romantic relationships with both a man & a woman.
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Old 05-03-2018, 05:20 PM
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^ I understand that.
For me when I watch it I completely agree with you but I guess I am going by what I saw in season 5-7... and why someone post that under hashtags??? If Willow was in denial, why did she have a crush on Xander for years and not a secret crush on a woman?

Probably that person should realize that the only reason Willow got turned gay is because Seth Green left the show... now that's ACTUAL facts. lol

No need to post that under a Oz/Willow post.
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Old 05-05-2018, 05:29 AM
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I'm just going by what I've seen... They literally made Willow not be attracted to any guys after Oz. It wasn't even a hint of it.

Well, there's no need to feign confusion over this. Joss and Marti were trying to turn the show into something else entirely in the College years, and using Willow's character to do it. They were trying to force the acceptance of lesbianism onto us. Simple as that. No need to beat around the bush.


They went too far, in my opinion. It was made clear from the beginning that Willow's attraction to Tara had nothing to do with the fact that she was female. They had the loneliness and the witchcraft in common. Willow was completely lost after the Oz devastation. He left a huge void. No-one can ever tell me that their love wasn't real.


Honestly, I hated much of when Marti Noxon took over the Executive reigns of the show. She pushed Spike/Buffy so dark that they fell off people's love lists (will never forgive the writers for the attempted rape story line) and they made Willow obsessed with Tara's memory to the point where she wanted to destroy everyone who wasn't her.


I have nothing against a show needing to branch out and cover relevant social topics and mature their characters. That said, I prefer the simpler times for Willow's character when she was in love with Oz and another werewolf wasn't around the corner ready to snatch him up (god, I hated Veruca)


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Old 05-05-2018, 11:44 AM
  #59
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Has anyone else made the parallel/formed the association of Oz finding an attraction to other werewolves and Willow finding an attraction to other witches in S4 cause I'm just really seeing that now that you have both of those things together side by side

I agree Willow being attracted to Tara had more to do with them both being witches than anything else

only really liked them together in S4 before it became pretty toxic with Willow wiping Tara's memory and whatnot and Spuffy was pretty good in 4 and 5 before it got really abusive in S6 (I wish Spike's S7 redemption arc wasn't based so wholly on what happened in seeing red which I haven't and will never watch)

I just wish that Spuffy scene hadn't happened at all and their abusive relationship just ended with Buffy basically telling him she was done fooling around with him (not sure if that was before or after seeing red)

Buffy's depression arc was done exceptionally well IMHO though even if it was very difficult to watch at times

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Probably that person should realize that the only reason Willow got turned gay is because Seth Green left the show... now that's ACTUAL facts. lol

No need to post that under a Oz/Willow post.
^ yeah it sucks when stuff like that gets in the way of ships :/
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:00 PM
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Has anyone else made the parallel/formed the association of Oz finding an attraction to other werewolves and Willow finding an attraction to other witches in S4 cause I'm just really seeing that now that you have both of those things together side by side
Great observation. Bestiality and witches, both of which Oz and Willow seemed to grow unhealthily addicted to as they grew apart. I liked the metaphor for College being experimentation period, but they took it too far. I didn't buy the Oz/Veruca thing for one moment. Oz might lose himself when the wolf takes over, but he was already starting to sense her when they first caught sight of each other. Marti Noxon depicted it was more of a sexual attraction, which is what I hated. Oz is better than that.


Quote:
I agree Willow being attracted to Tara had more to do with them both being witches than anything else
It definitely drew them together. Willow noticed how Tara was more involved with magic at the Club than the other girls were. That outsider feeling drew them close.


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I just wish that Spuffy scene hadn't happened at all and just ended
Filming it nearly made James Marsters ill, he was terrified of upsetting Sarah. What kind of writers would put the actors through that kind of stress?


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Buffy's depression arc was done exceptionally well IMHO though even if it was very difficult to watch at times
Agreed. It was one of the most interesting storyarcs, I just didn't like how they used her relationship with Spike to make her completely self-indulgent. It felt like a far cry from the days of Willow and Oz dealing with his werewolf transformation.
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