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| Passionate Fan   Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,495
| Episode Discussion: 6x13 Dead Things Since we aren't going to have new episodes to discuss, we're going to have weekly episode discussion threads for old episodes. New threads will, of course, appear each Tuesday. Except when they don't.  Dead Things The episode opens with Buffy and Spike trysting in his crypt. They seem quite cozy, though the conversation eventually deteriorates. In the Evil Trio's new lair, technogeek Warren shows Andrew and Jonathan his new invention: a small globe he calls the Cerebral Dampener. Warren brags: the Dampener will turn any woman into an eager sex slave. Over at Doublemeat Palace, Tara finds Buffy working the counter. The Slayer confesses that Spike’s chip no longer works on her, and that she fears she came back wrong. Horrified, Tara agrees to research Willow’s spell. That same night, the Evil Trio is huddled inside their video van, cruising chicks by secretly watching them on monitors. As Warren scopes women with a tiny camera in his tie tack, he spots his ex, Katrina. He flashes the Dampener on her, and bam! she's his love zombie. When an exhausted Buffy comes home from work, she finds Dawn mad at her for not being around more. Xander says some frosty fun at the Bronze is needed by all, and Buffy agrees. Back at the nerd lair, love-slave Katrina serves champagne to the trio. Warren loves his ex obeying his every command. But when the Dampener whammy abruptly wears off, an angry Katrina tosses the evil-doing dork into the next room. Katrina is so furious, she fights the trio single-handed, until Warren cracks her head with a bottle of bubbly. Katrina is dead. The trio argues about how to get rid of the body, and how to stop Buffy from finding out. Warren gets an idea: maybe he can kill two birds with one stone. Over at the Bronze Willow watches lovebirds Xander and Anya spaz-dance, as Buffy finds Spike ready to do some "dancing" himself. While he and Buffy get it on in the balcony, Spike whispers temptations to join him on the dark side. At the Magic Box, Tara and Willow have to fight temptations to perform their own kind of magic. Needing a distraction, the Slayer goes out to slay. In the cemetery she finds a Rwasundi demon attacking what appears to be a very-much-alive Katrina. Now things get weird. Suddenly, Buffy is hyper-thrust from one location to another Â* and back Â* hearing voices, fighting demons, confronting Spike, even punching Katrina. In the confusion a shocked Buffy discovers Katrina's very real and very dead body. But lurking in the shadows is another "Katrina." From inside the van, we now see the whole thing was set up and monitored by the Trio. The "other Katrina," is Jonathan. Warren’s plan is working: he's got Buffy believing she killed Katrina. Spike comforts the stunned Slayer, but Buffy is tormented by nightmares. Awakening, she tells Dawn she's got to turn herself in for murder. Spike tries to stop Buffy from going to the cops. He tells her he got rid of the body because he loves her. She clocks him. The argument turns ugly, and Buffy beats him severely. She reminds Spike he has no soul. She can never be his girl. As she goes to the police to confess, she overhears the victim’s name. A memory-flashback of Warren and Katrina arguing makes her realize: the geek must've killed her. She bails on confessing. Back home, Xander tells Buffy the cops found Katrina's body. The coroner rules it a suicide. Anya explains Buffy's hallucinations with the Rwasundi demons. The Slayer now knows this is Warren's handiwork, and the evil geek is getting away with murder. But Buffy has other problems: Tara, having finished her research, assures her that there’s nothing really wrong with her. In tears she confesses to Tara that she’s been having an affair with Spike. Tara promises the guilt-wracked Slayer that she'll never, ever tell. RtS: #41; beat Him in the first round; beat Two To Go in the second round; lost to The Wish in the third round. This was the episode I'd been waiting for after Gone. For my money, the second best episode in S6 and a permanent part of my all-seasons top ten. It's not pretty, but there isn't a wasted moment in the whole hour, as we see the Nerds turn to true evil and we get almost too much information about the ugly, dysfunctional mess that Buffy and Spike have created. After watching Doublemeat Palace, I'd been worried that ME had lost their nerve and that they were going to bail out on the B/S they'd created. After this ep, I didn't worry about that any more. Please feel free to post your comments, screencaps, favorite scenes and quotes. Next: 6x14, Older and Far Away. __________________ Goodbye BtVS. 4 great years. 2 1/2 good years. Tuesday is now just another day. | |||
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| #2 | |||
| Absolute Fan Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,616
| My favourite moments:   __________________ { Spot the Cylon! } {Discover BSG } | |||
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| #3 | |||
| Graphics Team Manager   | I agree with Rob, this is one of my favourite episodes too. It's dark, dramatic and gripping.  On of the best things about it was how well Buffy & Spike seemed to be getting along at the beginning. It was the first episode that we had seen her not looking so miserable since she had died. Buffy: You know, this place is okay for a hole in the ground. You fixed it up. Spike: Well, I ate a decorator once. Maybe something stuck. Buffy: I've been thinking about doing something to my room. Spike: Yeah? Buffy: Yeah, I think the New Kids On The Block posters are starting to date me.  I actualy started to dislike the Trio. I'm really glad that Andrew & Jonathan showed guilt about what had happened. Warren's coldness was quite shocking to me though. I thought that Catrina's part was acted really well. A great actress was chosen for the part.   There is a great essay from btvs-tabularasa called 'Pain, Love, Trust and Barriers in Dead Things' - by Linda Barlow I think my favourite part of the essay is this - Quote:
 This scene (dream or not) is probably one of my favourite Buffy/Spike moments ever.  And let's not forget the final scene which alwasy makes me cry.  Very powerful.__________________ Wifey Jen O'Neill With 2 L's! - LJ|fanforumers "Samantha Carter: The fate of the world is hanging in the balance and you've been sitting in your truck finishing this? | Jack O'Neill: I believe it was double or nothing. | Sam: Ok. 23 across, the atomic weight of boron. Answer is ten. | Jack: Yes? | Sam: You wrote the word fat. | Jack: And your point?" WATCH STARGATE!I love you. Remember that. Always... For all eternity. - Magnus & Druitt | |||
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| #4 | |||
| Master Fan  Joined: May 2002
Posts: 19,366
| Quote:
 That scene was so magical and emotional...kinda shows that they're not like other people, they're both a bit out of this world (btw I love the song!) and it also shows their connection... James is really a great actor but Sarah was really good in this ep too. That final spike-beating-up scene was so powerful!  __________________ ( * ) | |||
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| #5 | |||
| Loyal Fan  Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,462
| This was a good ep, I'll admit that seeing as I hated most of season 6. It was very dark and for me this was the first episode that made me realise I would never like Spuffy. I do agree that at the beginning Buffy and Spike were having a funny conversation and I enjoyed seeing Buffy happy. I had been fed up of the moping around. However I didn't like the way Buffy beat Spike up and I just never got comfortable with the idea of B/S. What shocked me was Warren's coldheartness. I detested him in this episode, the way he controlled Katrina and then killed her. I wanted someone to come along and kill him. I'm glad that Willow did kill him in the season finale ( not nice to say I know) because he WAS evil and in some ways, I never thought of him as a human. I loved the sad end scene. It was great to see the interaction between Buffy and Tara. It was a nice scene. __________________ Alan Fletcher is the best actor ever.period.end of. Shipper of: Karl/Susan, Dawson/Joey, Bridget/Mark, Willow/Tara | |||
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| #6 | |||
| Fan Forum's Finest   | Awesome episode! One of the best in season 6, no doubt. And the one who made me sure that Buffy did love Spike... Spike saying ''You always hurt the one you love.'' when Buffy beat him up, and then Buffy echoeing him when talking about Warren and Catrina, shows that she does love him...IMO, of course... __________________ Tar | iconbottom of my h e a r t | |||
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| #7 | |||
| Banned  Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 185
| Quote:
A fascinating, yet disturbing episode. Truly one of the best. | |||
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| #8 | |||
| Fan Forum's Finest  | I love this episode. I love it even more since I have seen the uncensored scenes now.  I remember after I watched for the first time I had to get online and read spoilers to see what was going to happen. SMG and JM gave incredible performances and I agree Tarhiliel this episodes hints alot at Buffy falling in love with Spike or at least having strong feelings for him. I don't know if she was even able to really love anyone then. She doesn't want to because like she says to Tara he is everything she is supposed to hate but she keeps letting him in. I wasn't surprised that Warren was So cold and started showing how evil he was. I had always suspected he wasn't just wanting play super villains like Jonathan and Andrew. Jen I have read that essay and it really is Great and So true. I think this episode really shows the complexities of the Spuffy relationship. It wasn't always pretty and the episode really showed how raw and intense it could be. I have never seen such a beautifully real unique relationship like this and the fact that they were able to forgive and build such a beautiful adult relationship in Season 7 really makes me appreciate this season because they really saw the best and worst of each other. They were able to accept each other for who they really are. I honestly don't think I would want to change a thing because through all the ugliness came such beauty.  __________________ | |||
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| #9 | |||
| Extreme Fan  Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,476
| I agree with your post Jaime Bee Dead Things showed not only how complicated Buffy's life was at the time, but also the complexities of the Spuffy relationship. Ultimately Buffy was just kind of mentally screwed that season, so it was kinda dark and at times ugly. But there were lighter moments, along with some nice Spuffy moments as well. And there were indications that Buffy did in fact love Spike. And though their relationship during that season may not have been the healthiest, especially due to Buffy's self-hatred, and Spike still being souless I s'pose, and the way that all played out, I agree that what makes Spuffy more appealing to me is the fact that they were able to bounce back and ultimately forgive each other and become better people - to me that speaks volumes for their relationship and how beautiful it became in season 7. And back to Dead Things, I think it's a really good eppy because there are so many different layers to it, so many different emotions running high throughout the episode. I actually thought it was kind of a turning point for the season because it was quite an emotionally draining episode, lol. And yeah, how did Warren suddenly become so incredibly evil in that eppy? He was actually kinda scary, and I was like whooa, where did that come from? I mean, this is the trio we're talking about here, ya know? And I agree with you Star Dreamer. I mean, maybe it's wrong but with what a complete jacka$$ Warren became I really didn't feel much sympathy for him when he got killed either. __________________ Spuffy, Ross/Rachel, Seth/Summer, Brenda/Dylan "You risked everything to be a better man, and you can be. You are. You may not see it, but I do. I believe in you Spike." "I've seen the best and the worst of you and I understand exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one Buffy." | |||
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| #10 | |||
| Part-Time Fan  Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 433
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| #11 | |||
| Loyal Fan Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,944
| Quote:
Love your post and I agree with all of it. I would also add that it does show the contrast of Buffy believing she killed someone and willing to accept her responsibility for her "crime" whereas Whan Faith killed the Deputy Mayor by accident, not only did she not care she refused to accept reponsibility for it and worst tried to frame Buffy for it. | |||
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| #12 | |||
| Extreme Fan Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,476
| Quote:
__________________ Spuffy, Ross/Rachel, Seth/Summer, Brenda/Dylan "You risked everything to be a better man, and you can be. You are. You may not see it, but I do. I believe in you Spike." "I've seen the best and the worst of you and I understand exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one Buffy." | |||
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| #13 | |||
| Banned Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 185
| Quote:
But this episode also showed that Buffy's willingness to accept responsibility for the crime was tainted with self-interest . . . to give the law enforcement community the opportunity to help her escape from her other responsibilities - like Dawn, her Slayer duties, her relationship with Spike, her friendship with the Scoobies, . . . living. | |||
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| #14 | |||
| Passionate Fan Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,495
| Quote:
I'll agree that in the earlier scenes she was, for the first and only time in the season, trying on the idea that she might. But that was because she was finally facing the implications of Spike being able to hit her. Buffy had a lot of problems in S6, but she wasn't a complete moron. She understood what love felt like to a human. Whatever her feelings were for Spike, they weren't in the same time zone as human love. The kicker is that she had no way to know how a monster might experience love, except through observing Spike. She was way past the point of denying that he loved her. But even the most fanatic B/Ser ought to accept that some of the ways Spike expressed that were, in human terms, pretty repulsive. Which is to be expected from a monster (using the word to mean "something that isn't human", not "evil"). Some of Buffy's behavior had been pretty repulsive too. There isn't any real qualitative difference between her behavior in the crypt in Gone and his in the balcony in this episode. She was enjoying the violent, angry sex as much as he was. She was, as she'd openly admit in S7, "behaving like a monster". Spike could hit her, and Spike's chip only allowed him to hurt monsters. Pretty hard to avoid the conclusion that she might well have become a monster, too, and if she was, then she could expect to love like a monster and she'd better get used to the idea. And if she wasn't happy about it? Spike usually seemed pretty unhappy about the fact that he loved her. Once she found out she hadn't come back "wrong", all of that went out the window. Tara was the most sympathetic possible audience, and practically begged her to say she loved Spike. She couldn't do it, because it wasn't true. __________________ Goodbye BtVS. 4 great years. 2 1/2 good years. Tuesday is now just another day. | |||
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| #15 | |||
| Extreme Fan Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,476
| I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's entirely true. I just want to address that whole "Did Buffy love Spike" issue, (regarding season 6, because there isn't even a smidgeon of doubt in my mind that she loved him in season 7.) Ok, season 6, in all, was a dark season with a dark premise. It was mainly about Buffy trying to get her life back on track, and dealing with her own self hatred. Now Spike seemed to be the only one she could connect with. She was "dead inside" (as she vicariously called herself while she was hitting Spike), and he was the only one who could make her feel anything. Perhaps part of it was because she felt like she could relate to him: he was literally dead, whereas she "felt" dead, and he was a "monster" (as he didn't have a soul), and she felt like a "monster". However, Dead Things was pretty much the first time she showed emotion all season, and it was almost a complete breakdown for her. She felt guilty about taking out her problems on Spike, and about how she has been completely shutdown all season. She desperately wanted to get her life back on track, to feel human again. Ultimately, due to these issues, I felt that during season 6 Buffy was kind of lost on the concept of love in general. The rule is you have to love yourself first, and she most definately didn't. Personally, I believe she was developing strong feelings for Spike that could be interpreted as love, though she didn't quite have the concept down pat at that time as a result of her psychological issues. But the two even started to develop a bond as far back as season 5. She did, afterall, inform him of her mother's illness before even Riley, her boyfriend, knew about it. In Hells Bells she admitted that it hurt to see him with other girls, (and if no feelings were involved, I don't see why she'd care.) Not to mention in First Date she said "Why does everybody think I'm STILL in love with Spike?", meaning she did, in fact, love him in season 6. (Or at least loved him to the extent that her rather unstable state of mind would allow her). When she talked to Tara at the end, I saw a girl who was just completely confused, emotionally broken, and insecure. She didn't even understand her own emotions, and I think that while she did love Spike, (or at the very least have strong feelings for him), the thought that she could be in love with a "soulless monster" terrified her. As she said, he was everything she was supposed to be against, yet the only time she could feel anything was when she was with him. It's the calling of the slayer to kill vampires, and thus, though she did have undeniable feelings for him, it made her feel as though she was becoming the very thing she had been taught to kill her entire life: a monster. Especially after what happened with Angelus, she could never quite accept the fact that a souless vampire could love, and it made her feel wrong for having strong feelings for the very thing she was supposed to hate. If Buffy truly, adamantly, and absolutely had no strong feelings for Spike (yes, such as love), then why would she not vehemently deny it to Tara? Granted, she couldn't say that she did love him, but conversely why then couldn't she say that she didn't? She was coming clean to Tara about everything else, so the fact that she hesitates to answer this question indicates to me that there are feelings she can't deny. However, Dead Things, along with the entirety of season 6, seems to completely polarize BTVS fans on pretty much every issue imaginable, so I'm sure anything I say could be argued a myriad of different ways. But then again that's one of the things I love about BTVS: you take what you want out of it, and it always makes for a good debate  __________________ Spuffy, Ross/Rachel, Seth/Summer, Brenda/Dylan "You risked everything to be a better man, and you can be. You are. You may not see it, but I do. I believe in you Spike." "I've seen the best and the worst of you and I understand exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one Buffy." | |||
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