Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Episode Discussion: 2x07 Lie To Me

Ragnarok · 06-01-2004, 06:37 PM

Since we aren't going to have new episodes to discuss, we're going to have weekly episode discussion threads for old episodes. New threads will, of course, appear each Tuesday.

Lie To Me

Buffy spies Angel talking to Drusilla, but from her viewpoint, mistakes it for kissing. The next day in school, Billy "Ford" Fordham, her fifth grade crush has transferred to Sunnydale High. Xander is unsurprisingly jealous, as is Angel, especially since Buffy is suspicious of him after seeing him with Dru. That night at the Bronze, Ford sees Buffy stake a vampire, but he already knew she was the Slayer. We then discover that unknown to Buffy, Ford has cut a deal with Spike: he will be made a vampire in exchange for giving him Buffy. Spike makes the mistake of bringing Dru along to see him kill Buffy. She holds Dru hostage, and Spike is forced to let Buffy go. The next night, Ford rises as a vampire and is staked by Buffy.

(Episode summary on loan from buffyguide.com)

RtS: #34; Beat Same Time, Same Place in the first round; lost to Primeval in the second round.

Another good S2 standalone. Jason Behr, who never impressed me very much on Roswell, was excellent in this episode. And let's not forget the debut of Chanterelle/Lily/Sister Anne, another of the recurring characters on BtVS/AtS. Some first rate Angel scenes, confronting Dru, giving the backstory on Drusilla to Buffy, and especially visiting the Vampire Club with Willow and Xander. Loved the scene between Ford and Spike, though I still can't believe Spike was stupid enough to bring Dru along to the club and put her in danger. The sad little scene in the graveyard at the end was really the perfect ending.

Please feel free to post your comments, screencaps, favorite scenes and quotes.

Next week: 2x08, The Dark Age.

***Scythe*** · 06-02-2004, 12:54 AM

I just love the end where Spike is like "er...where's the doorknob?"

Ford: That doesn't matter. I've got something to offer you. I-I'm
pretty sure this is the part where you take out a watch and say I've got
thirty seconds to convince you not to kill me? (smiles) It's
traditional.

Spike: Well, I don't go much for
tradition.

Drusilla: Wait, love.

Spike: Well?

Ford: Oh, c'mon! Say it! It's no fun if you don't say it.

Spike: What? Oh. You've got thirty
seconds to convince me not to kill you.

Spike: Everybody STOP!

Buffy: Good idea. Now you let everyone out, or your girlfriend fits in
an ashtray.

I also really love the Buffy/Giles scene at the end:

Buffy: Does it ever get easy?

Giles: You mean life?

Buffy: Yeah. Does it get easy?

Giles: What do you want me to say?

Buffy: Lie to me.

Giles: Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are
easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we
always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody
lives happily ever after.

Buffy: Liar.

Eternal Love · 06-02-2004, 01:48 AM

Loved "Lie to me" The last sceene with Buffy and Giles was really great. Even through I don�t like Dru much, I like how they showed mistery around this charakter and her backstory with Angel. The sceene with Spike and Ford was funny.

**sort of beautiful** · 06-02-2004, 03:44 AM

Loved this episode,fave part when Angel asked Buffy if she loved him and she said yes!

.

***Scythe*** · 06-02-2004, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tru-calling4eva
Loved this episode,fave part when Angel asked Buffy if she loved him and she said yes!.

Yeah, but she doesn't trust him.

Ragnarok · 06-02-2004, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scythe
Yeah, but she doesn't trust him.

She didn't seem to trust any of them after she found out they'd been sneaking around investigating Ford without telling her.

Very nice choice of scenes and screencaps.

**sort of beautiful** · 06-03-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ragnarok
She didn't seem to trust any of them after she found out they'd been sneaking around investigating Ford without telling her.

Very nice choice of scenes and screencaps.

Agreed!

she didnt trust Spike for years!

***Lethe's Bramble*** · 06-04-2004, 06:36 AM

oh I loved Lie to me!!!! I couldn't help but like Ford even though he was a total a$$!!

Spike was so cute in this ep! And cool!

I loved how Buffy told Giles to lie to her, shows that she's still not ready to come clear with the fact that being a grown up isn't always easy.

and of course! Chanterelle! I loved Julia Lee!! Especially when she came back to Buffy as Lily and later on Angel as Anne

T O B Y · 06-04-2004, 06:53 AM

Great ep.

As I said not too long ago in RtS, this is probably one of the most foreboding and foreshadowing eppies ever. The end scene in the cemetary was a great preview for things to come in everything Giles said, as well as Buffy having to actually literally kill someone she had known very well and at one time cared about. Giles's dialogue still gives me chills to this day.

Everyone's right on in this ep. I even like Xander in this ep, go figure! 'You could say that.' Or whatever he says to Ford about Angel. Jealous Angel was also fun to watch, and I love when he says something about the way the wannabe vampires are dressed and then the guy walks up dressed the same as Angel. Heh.

Good Spike ep here too - it showed both his comedic (sadistic) side, his tender (sadistic) side, and his malicious side as well.

One thing that always amazes me though - he kept his promise to Ford.

*Krissy* · 06-04-2004, 08:54 AM

I love this episode. I'm a huge Jason Behr fan so I'm sure that has something to do with it. I agree with what everyone has said. The Buffy/Giles scene in the graveyard was very well done. Spike was great, as he usually is. When Ford told Buffy what was going on with him, why he wanted to be immortal, I couldn't help but feel bad for him. I also liked getting to know more about Dru and what happened between her and Angel. And Angel was funny in this ep. I too liked the line about how the wannabe vamps dressed.

Ragnarok · 06-04-2004, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by T O B Y
Great ep.

As I said not too long ago in RtS, this is probably one of the most foreboding and foreshadowing eppies ever.

Jealous Angel was also fun to watch, and I love when he says something about the way the wannabe vampires are dressed and then the guy walks up dressed the same as Angel. Heh.

Good Spike ep here too - it showed both his comedic (sadistic) side, his tender (sadistic) side, and his malicious side as well.

One thing that always amazes me though - he kept his promise to Ford.

Agreed on all points.

It's also interesting to note that this is the first instance of Buffy making a deal with the bad guy. She agrees to trade Drusilla for the club members. It's tempting to think that this is why Spike knew he could cut a deal with her in Becoming.

The business with Angel and the guy dressed just like him was priceless.

saturn5 · 10-24-2009, 03:18 AM

Lie to Me;

The Good;
The central story is very strong and it makes great fun of all the vampfans out there (Twilight lovers I'm talking to you ). The scene with Dru and the kid in the playground is scary as hell . First appearance of Chantrelle/Lily/Anne and she's great. Angel in the vamp club is hilarious. Ingenious the way Buffy defeats Spike and co, once again you see that this girl has brains and guile and not just looks and brawn. Adore the Angel/Will scene, her hiding her undies and telling him she's not allowed boys in her room. Willow finally realising what the Divinyls song 'I touch myself' is really about (you know if that had been sung by a guy they'd have never played it on the radio). Willow still in her 'startled virgin' phase which they play for laughs and will eventually be taken over by Dawn as Will grows more and more worldly. The Divinyls also provide music for the Buffy movie. Lovely scene between Giles and Buffy at the end.

The Bad;
Not much, strong ep

Best line;
Giles; I believe that's called 'Growing up'
Buffy; Then I'd like to stop now, ok?
but also
Willow (about Angel) "Ours is a forbidden love"
Xander (after Chantrelle describes vamps as 'the lonely ones') "Actually we call them the nasty, pointy, bitey ones"
and Giles' wonderful speech at the end.

Questions and observations;
Cordy identifies with Marie-Antoinette. One day she too will be a Queen with people having their heads cut off. Ford likes Jack Palance as Dracula which is also the version Angel recommends (you wonder did he ever meet the real thing? He was certainly in Romania) Don't bother looking for Ford in the Buffy movie, I assure you he's not even mentioned. Jason Bher (Ford) will work with SMG again in The Grudge. We get the story of Angelus and Drusilla for the first time, explaining why Angel was reluctant to talk it over with the Scoobies.
Ford is SUCH a scumbag. Ok, you're dying but that doesn't mean you kill dozens of other people to enable you to 'live'. His scheme also seems unecessarily elaborate, why not just catch a vamp, chain it up in the open and tell it either to sire you and you'll release it or it'll be dead by sun-up?
Buffy entered a beauty contest at Hemery (check out 'I know what you did last summer' for SMG in a swimsuit pageant). Giles and Jenny have their second date at a monster truck rally which I think would have been a great episode in itself. Spike keeps his word and sires Ford, as with his love of Dru he seems a very atypical vampire.
Great stuff 8/10

**ashleyt** · 10-24-2009, 11:37 AM

Ford was such an unsympathetic character. Yes you're dying but that doesn't make it right to kill innocent people. I also think that he's a bit insane too. He came across as less evil and more unbalanced.