Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Episode Discussion: 2x01 When She Was Bad

Ragnarok · 04-06-2004, 03:26 PM

Since we aren't going to have new episodes to discuss, we're going to have weekly episode discussion threads for old episodes. New threads will, of course, appear each Tuesday. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

When She Was Bad

Season 2 opens on Willow and Xander being bored to point of licking ice cream off each other, when they are attacked by the first vampire to be seen all summer. They are saved by the first Buffy Summers to be seen all summer, back from her LA holiday, and a total bitca.The next night, Buffy has a vision of the Master killing her, brought on by The Annointed One planning to resurrect the Master. The Scooby Gang are kidnapped by the Annointed One's gang, who mean to raise the Master by draining their blood over his bones. Xander is the only one spared, and tells Buffy it was her fault they were taken.Buffy, Angel and Xander charge in to the rescue, and Buffy destroys the Master once and for all by crushing his bones.

(Episode summary on loan from buffyguide.com)

RtS: #69; lost to Choices in the first round.

I have mixed feelings about this episode. Buffy certainly was a complete bitca for most of the episode. I actually found myself cheering for Cordelia when she confronted her outside the Bronze. Some very sweet Willow/Xander moments, especially in the opening sequence. If that vampire had waited another ten minutes to show up, the entire course of the series might have been changed. And this episode also contains one of the very few Self Righteous Xander speeches that didn't make me cringe.

Please feel free to post your comments, screencaps, favorite scenes and quotes.

Next week: 2x02, Some Assembly Required.

sum1 · 04-06-2004, 03:45 PM

I really liked Buffy being nasty. I get very tired of her friends' self-satisfied goody-goodiness and the way they expect her to act a certain way. I loved the way her behavior threw them. I also loved her putting Angel and Cordelia in their places.

There's a scene in which Buffy comes back and finds that the vampires have kidnapped Giles and Willow, with only Xander left behind, and Xander gets all self-righteous and tells Buffy he'll kill her if Willow dies. Well, his behavior in that scene made me feeling like killing him. But then I tend to only tolerate Xander at best, so it doesn't take much for me to want to throttle him.

Finally, I loved the way Buffy dusted all those vamps in one go. It reminded me of the great scene in Into The Woods when she gets surrounded by vamps in the alleyway and she dusts the lot of them. Think you can kill off Buffy, you morons? Pay the price!

Oh, and Cibo Matto sucked, particularly their lead singer.

[ 04-06-2004: Message edited sum1 ]

Miss Katie · 04-07-2004, 12:12 AM

this was the one eppy that I hated buffy in, I loved the opening scene with will and xander...awww I love him! and her! lol sorry gettin carried away.I am gonna watch this one as I fall asleep tonight

***Scythe*** · 04-07-2004, 02:23 AM

Oooh! New Season [img]smilies/pinkie.gif[/img] This is the episode that brought us "bitca"

Bronson · 04-07-2004, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sum1:
There's a scene in which Buffy comes back and finds that the vampires have kidnapped Giles and Willow, with only Xander left behind, and Xander gets all self-righteous and tells Buffy he'll kill her if Willow dies. Well, his behavior in that scene made me feeling like killing him. But then I tend to only tolerate Xander at best, so it doesn't take much for me to want to throttle him.
[ 04-06-2004: Message edited sum1 ]

Xander was entitled to be angry at Buffy for her nasty bitchy attitude. I would have cursed her out as well.

sum1 · 04-07-2004, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bronson:
Xander was entitled to be angry at Buffy for her nasty bitchy attitude. I would have cursed her out as well.

I think he was entitled to no such thing. Xander's an irresponsible self-righteous, self serving, sex-obsessed twerp who hides his insecurities behind stupid jokes rather than trying to face them and grow up. He's got no right to go criticising Buffy, whose life is dedicated to saving the world. If she acts negative for a day or so, she's still better than an idiot like him who's an unpleasant character on a regular basis. Xander's in no position to criticise. Particularly seeing as she was acting like that on account of being traumatised by the negative experiences she'd suffered on the job.

Plus he didn't just "curse her out", he said he'd kill her, which is pretty strong talk, even if it wasn't meant literally.

And he was giving out to Buffy on account of Willow being in danger, as if he was Willow's great champion. Except he usually took Willow for granted while chasing after Buffy and Buffy was usually a better friend to Willow than he was. Frankly, I gotta wonder if he wasn't giving Buffy that trouble over Willow because he felt guilty over the crappy way he was treating Willow.

Ragnarok · 04-07-2004, 09:39 AM

God knows I'm no fan of Self Righteous Xander, but I was on his side in this episode. Yes, Buffy had some trauma to deal with, but she made no effort to share what was bothering her with her friends and thus gave them no opportunity to help (a pattern she'd repeat in the future). The way she treated Angel, Xander and Willow in the Bronze was disgraceful. If she didn't want their help, the least she could have done was not take her issues out on them. So when Xander, having finally had enough, snapped at her, I was on his side. People's lives were in danger, and if Buffy had handled her issues in a more mature fashion, it might have been avoided. Xander may or may not be all of the things described, but that doesn't change the basic facts.

Jen

Excellent screencaps, as usual.

***Scythe*** · 04-07-2004, 09:44 AM

[img]smilies/sigh.gif[/img] I feel so appreciated [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

sum1 · 04-07-2004, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
God knows I'm no fan of Self Righteous Xander, but I was on his side in this episode. Yes, Buffy had some trauma to deal with, but she made no effort to share what was bothering her with her friends and thus gave them no opportunity to help (a pattern she'd repeat in the future). The way she treated Angel, Xander and Willow in the Bronze was disgraceful. If she didn't want their help, the least she could have done was not take her issues out on them. So when Xander, having finally had enough, snapped at her, I was on his side. People's lives were in danger, and if Buffy had handled her issues in a more mature fashion, it might have been avoided. Xander may or may not be all of the things described, but that doesn't change the basic facts.

Well, I'm a big fan of Buffy herself and I don't have much respect for Xander, Willow or Angel (as people who've read many of my posts may know [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ), so I couldn't really care less how she treated them. And I actually enjoyed how she disturbed them. They needed a bit of a shock, with their annoying self-satisfied goody-goody-ism. As for Buffy handling things badly and immaturely and taking out her issues on people, well, Willow, Xander and Angel have all done worse in that area in their time.

As for Buffy putting her friends lives in danger, well, if it weren't for her, they'd already have been dead by then, or vamped or alive but in even more danger (see The Wish, for example).

But really, I wouldn't be on Xander's side against Buffy even if she was trying destroy the world and he was trying to save it! [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] His self-righteous arrogant ranting at her just made me want to dump a building on him.

And let's face it, Xander's thing he said to Buffy about if-Willow-dies... well, you know me -if Willow'd died, I would have thrown a party. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] So, not really sharing his feelings there.

[ 04-07-2004: Message edited sum1 ]

T O B Y · 04-07-2004, 03:19 PM

Interesting discussion regarding Xander and Buffy. God knows I love bashing Xander.

However, for once, I didn't completely hate him. His fall into major Self-Righteousness and my hate for him pretty much stems from this episode and it never looked up from there. His comment to Buffy about killing her if Willow was hurt, shows how much of a pompous ass he is, and it's pretty ludicrous and every time I hear him say it, I wanna kil him myself. Either that or roll my eyes so hard they pop out of my head. I did however like earlier in the episode where she got on Willow's case, and he loudly spoke out against her saying 'Okay, that's just about enough.' I thought at the time, that was appropriate to say to Buffy - I wanted her to shut it too.

I do sit on the fence here slightly though because, to me, Buffy has every right in the world to be as angry and 'off' as she wants, considering the life she leads. I would be too.

ETA: I forgot to mention I truly like this episode, and it's prolly my favorite season opener. Go Bitch Buffy!

[ 04-07-2004: Message edited T O B Y ]

Mootrix · 04-09-2004, 05:55 PM

Good episode. I am watching it now. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Angelic pixie · 04-10-2004, 02:51 AM

I loved this episode. I'm by no means an Willow/Xander fan, but I thought their opening scene together was too cute for words.

Also, I loved the Jenny/Giles scene towards the beginning of the episode. Those two were so cute together... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Cordy confronting Buffy after the Bronze scene was great as well... you gotta love Cordy. Or at least, I do. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

The last scene with Buffy, Willow and Xander talking was sweet too... silent forgiveness. Awww.

nikz · 04-10-2004, 08:09 AM

[img]smilies/love.gif[/img] this ep to bits.

One of my faves ever, and my fave season opener for sure.

Definitely use "bitca" today now in my everyday speech. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I felt so sorry for Buffy here. At first, I didn't coz she was being a real bitca, but when she broke down while smashing the Master's bones... [img]smilies/bawl.gif[/img] I really felt for the poor girl - I mean, dying and then not dying - all at 16! It's gotta be [img]smilies/spinface.gif[/img] for her.

Oh, and Buffy's sexy dance with Xander...and Willow, Angel and Cordy looking on. I love that scene to bits...

Fave line was: Buffy - Cordelia, your mouth is open and sound is coming from it. This is never good.

[img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

Shwaz · 04-10-2004, 08:46 PM

I really liked this ep. 'Bitca' Buffy was pretty amusing, even if uncalled for, lots of good quotes.

X: Yo, G-man, what's up?
G: Nice to see you, and don't ever call me that. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I really loved the following exchange for some reason. It was just well-delivered I guess.

C: Oh, look, it's the 3 Musketeers.
B: Was that an insult?
X: It kinda lacked punch.
W: The 3 Musketeers were cool.
C: I see your point.
X: I would have gone with Stooges.

C: Did you guys fight any demons this summer?
W: Yes, our own personal demons.
X: Yeah, such as lust and... thrift.
B: I would have to go with Stooges also.

And some more:

B: Xander, did I ever thank you for saving my life?
X: No.
B: Don't you wish I would?

C: You're really campaigning for bitch of the year, aren't you?
B: As defending champion, are you nervous?

C: You know, we've never really been close, which is nice, 'cause I don't really like you that much....

[ 04-10-2004: Message edited Shwaz ]

**ROCKSTAR** · 04-10-2004, 08:48 PM

I love this episode! It's almost perfect.

The beginning is priceless with Willow and Xander.

My favorite line is Buffy to Angel, "Kick. My. Ass." [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]