[☆♥~Buffyverse_Lover16~♥☆]

Too bad she had to sacrifice herself

[starryeyesxx]

It was so sad, but so beautiful & selfless too

[eternalfate]

It was, I really wish to have seen more of them.
As much as I disliked Connor during Season 4, it was great to see that Darla almost got through to Connor in 'Inside Out' episode, but it was sad to see how much evil!Cordy had corrupt him to that point. It was seriously the most sadness and guilt we saw from Connor about his actions though.

[starryeyesxx]

Yeah, he had just been so manipulated & let's face it, pretty much groomed & abused, his head was so messed up & real love from someone who genuinely cared about his wellbeing just wasn't enough at that point

[eternalfate]

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post) Yeah, he had just been so manipulated & let's face it, pretty much groomed & abused, his head was so messed up & real love from someone who genuinely cared about his wellbeing just wasn't enough at that point

I know. Angel really loved him, but he never saw it. Evil!Cordy just didn't really love him, and he fell for it cause he was attracted to her and he did need a woman's love which is where I believed Darla would've been the perfect person for it.

I wish we could've got more scenes with them, probably if the show lasted longer we would have.

[starryeyesxx]

Angel did love him, but Connor had been too brainwashed to believe him or trust him. That's why Darla had a better chance imo & was able to get through to him for a little while imo. I think Evil!Cordy's hold over Connor was stronger than just an attraction to her, even before she came along he'd been manipulated & brainwashed by Holtz, so that made it easier for Evil!Cordy to do the same thing.

I think that Inside Out does show us that in some way, Darla is still alive & watching over Connor, so I like to think that continued on after that ep too & maybe if the series had lasted longer she would have got another chance to talk to him

[eternalfate]

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post) Angel did love him, but Connor had been too brainwashed to believe him or trust him. That's why Darla had a better chance imo & was able to get through to him for a little while imo. I think Evil!Cordy's hold over Connor was stronger than just an attraction to her, even before she came along he'd been manipulated & brainwashed by Holtz, so that made it easier for Evil!Cordy to do the same thing. I think that Inside Out does show us that in some way, Darla is still alive & watching over Connor, so I like to think that continued on after that ep too & maybe if the series had lasted longer she would have got another chance to talk to him

Yeah, he was brainwashed by Holtz when it came to Angel, and when it came to Darla he was brainwashed by Cordy... woah interesting transition I just noticed.

I would love if Darla was still watching over Connor in someway. Although Darla is most likely in a bad place, she's watching over him.

[starryeyesxx]

Idk, the way that she was dressed in white & trying to convince Connor to be good, it made it seem like she's in a good place. Maybe when she gave her life for Connor, that one good thing redeemed her in the eyes of the powers.

[eternalfate]

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post) Idk, the way that she was dressed in white & trying to convince Connor to be good, it made it seem like she's in a good place. Maybe when she gave her life for Connor, that one good thing redeemed her in the eyes of the powers.

I was actually confused to the Darla we saw.
Because as much as I love Darla, she was one of the most evil vampires ever so she's going the same place Angel went when he died in Season 2 of BTVS! lol

That was a great thing she did in the end, but she sadly did entirely way more 400 years of bad then the good...

[starryeyesxx]

I agree, but I guess it goes back to that weird demon/soul thing that they had with the vampires? Like the demon in her would have gone to hell, but her soul, with all the memories of her entire life as human/vampire/human/vampire again & would have the same personality if that makes sense? I have no idea...

The other thing from the Buffyverse, is that we saw good characters go to hell. Like Angel, he was sucked into hell for the things Angelus had done, & Spike in s5 felt like he was slipping into hell even though he had just saved the world? Idk, it's weird. Probably best not to think about it too much

[eternalfate]

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post) I agree, but I guess it goes back to that weird demon/soul thing that they had with the vampires? Like the demon in her would have gone to hell, but her soul, with all the memories of her entire life as human/vampire/human/vampire again & would have the same personality if that makes sense? I have no idea... The other thing from the Buffyverse, is that we saw good characters go to hell. Like Angel, he was sucked into hell for the things Angelus had done, & Spike in s5 felt like he was slipping into hell even though he had just saved the world? Idk, it's weird. Probably best not to think about it too much

I think because no matter how good they are, and no matter how much they tried to redeem their past. They did way more evil then ever good.

Like with Buffy, her going to heaven made since. She killed vampires, and when a human died she felt so bad about it and put all the blame on herself, I never really got why her friends would think she would go to hell.

Angel and Spike, although they had a soul they both did some horrible things 100+ years of evil, so of course they would pay for those sins...

It's like some mortals has souls, but there are some evil people who won't be seeing the bright lights when they go.

That's why I believed Darla also went all the way down because most of her life she was evil. It's sad but very true.

[starryeyesxx]

I don't know, I never really thought that it was fair that someone's soul would have to pay for what they did as a vampire. I thought that Angel only went to hell because of the particular circumstances of his death, & otherwise he might not have done.

Plus, I always kinda got the feeling that the Buffyverse was a little more complicated than heaven & hell. Like there were different versions of heaven & hell in different dimensions & sometimes if you died, you would just going to a different dimension & still be fighting for good somehow? Like when Cordy became a higher being - even though it was a trick - I just always thought that some of these characters would still be fighting the good fight in some way even after they died.

[eternalfate]

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post) I don't know, I never really thought that it was fair that someone's soul would have to pay for what they did as a vampire. I thought that Angel only went to hell because of the particular circumstances of his death, & otherwise he might not have done. Plus, I always kinda got the feeling that the Buffyverse was a little more complicated than heaven & hell. Like there were different versions of heaven & hell in different dimensions & sometimes if you died, you would just going to a different dimension & still be fighting for good somehow? Like when Cordy became a higher being - even though it was a trick - I just always thought that some of these characters would still be fighting the good fight in some way even after they died.

I actually do think it's fair... only because if that's the case, every mortal with a soul would just automatically go to heaven. I'm sorry I just can't see a vampire really going to heaven. Vampires are one of the most evil creatures ever and as I said before Spike and Angel did way more evil then good at that point.... and even when Angel had the soul, he did some horrible things. Same with Spike. It's not like they were saints with the soul.

I do agree with you though, that I believed in the Buffyverse that there was more than black & white heaven and hell. It was different universes and dimensions. So that I definitely agree with you with, but I personally don't have a problem with Angel or even Spike paying for their past sins by dealing with the worst in a hell dimension because I believe it's realistic.

[starryeyesxx]

I'm not saying that every human soul would go to heaven, but that if you had been good as a human before you became a vampire then you shouldn't have to pay for what the demon did. If you still did bad things with a soul, then yeah you'd go to hell.

I thought that Angel & Spike were meant to pay for their sins by living & saving people. They were fighting for redemption & with the shanshu prophecy it wouldn't really make sense to reward them with humanity once they had saved the world how many times over & then once they died as humans to they'd go to hell. There's gotta be like a reset button in there at some point.

[eternalfate]

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post) I'm not saying that every human soul would go to heaven, but that if you had been good as a human before you became a vampire then you shouldn't have to pay for what the demon did. If you still did bad things with a soul, then yeah you'd go to hell. I thought that Angel & Spike were meant to pay for their sins by living & saving people. They were fighting for redemption & with the shanshu prophecy it wouldn't really make sense to reward them with humanity once they had saved the world how many times over & then once they died as humans to they'd go to hell. There's gotta be like a reset button in there at some point.

Spike and Angel did do bad things with the soul though. lol It's just the way it is, they didn't ask to be a vampire but they were. Buffy didn't ask to be a slayer but she was. I think no matter what, you do have a choice... more so with a soul.
Also they are vampires, they aren't humans anymore... it doesn't matter of the fairness behind it, life isn't fair. Vampires going to heaven or in a good place is just a not a chance. Demons don't go to a good place, it's sad that their human side has to pay for the darkness of the demons inside of them but you know... sometimes life just isn't fair.

I understand your confliction when it comes to the prophecy though...
Now probably if Spike and Angel were humans the next time they died, things would be different.
I guess we will just agree to disagree on this topic.