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HELL NO!
Ugh, curse my hypocrisy because this is the exact reason (well one of two reasons) I can't find an ounce of respect for Bangel shippers in me but it's difficult for me to accept that Cangel must be left in the past.
Angel does have a right to move on though, I know that just like he had a right to move on from Buffy but I DO NOT support Angel/Fred.
I felt more of a brother/sister vibe from them.

I'd have voted Faith as Angel's new romantic interest. I believe they have something just about as strong as Cangel.

I've heard that no one knows, he just kinda vanished. Though that's probably not true, it's too surreal.

As do I. I've tried and failed to find it's equal. Or more accurately an equal which has a complete AtS gallery.

www.screencapped.net/tv/angel/
^ This one is great but it's only got the first two seasons of AtS.
BtVS however is complete.

::Shadow of Reflection: Version 23 - Top of the Class...:::
^
This is the other real good one I've found but it has NO AtS at all, just BtvS.

I didn't save much from SCP, just several WITW shots.

Jaime Bee

I UC shipped Fangel.

Yeah that's what I heard about David Greenwalt.

It annoys me that's all we know & he loved Cordy.

I bet Cangel would have been well written if he hadn't left.

Thanks for the links to those sites. It sucks they don't have Season 3 at least of ATS for Cangel caps though.

Joss can't seem to come up with anything else to describe Bangel than they are like Romeo/Juliet.

That's not a good thing ship wise to me.

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He certainly would not have allowed the whole higher being/Jasmine thing to happen to Cordy. He was her number 1 fan and always wrote her with such respect to her strong points.

Indeed, I agree.

How Ironic.
In one of the fanfic's I've read, I can't remember which one or even if it was one of the good ones, I've read so many recently, Cordy has it out with Buffy in the middle of class over Angel disguised as the class discussion of Romeo and Juliet.
Cordy hates Romeo and Juliet because it's fairytale-ish and overdramatic most importantly because they didn't really know each other.
Angel tells Cordy at a later point that his ideal love in literary terms is Pride & Prejudice.

straws

I'm the same. Like, obviously CA is my #1 choice but since that's not happening, I'd be okay with Angel being with someone else *if* it made sense.

Angel/Illyria makes no sense to me. Buffy and Cordy both made Angel more human, and brought out his positive qualities. Illyria can only make Angel more vampire. IDGI. She thinks of humanity as an "infection." Angel's entire purpose is to fight for humanity and save them.

Angel and Faith at least have the groundwork to start building a romantic relationship. They have a solid friendship and unique bond. They make way more sense to me romantically. (I'd rather see Faith's sexuality explored, but since the writers are determined to make her hetero, Angel is the best fit.)
I think that's one I recommended because I recall that scene. My Senior Year by Dock possibly?

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My sentiment exactly and like Cordy Faith accepts Angel's dark side, in her case because she can relate to it.

Yet Faith/Buffy is somehow a popular ship.

Oh, possibly--that sounds somewhat right.

Finished This Time It's Real.
It's hard to make me a fan of one resurrection let alone multiples and while the grammar wasn't the worst I've seen and got worse as it progressed, the story was otherwise interesting.

Smutty Ficlets anyone?
Maxim
Freedom's Prize

Jaime Bee

That is

There are Bangel shippers that think being compared to Romeo/Juliet is a good thing.

Joss even said on one quote that he thought that meant Bangel were boring in relation to Romeo/Juliet when he chooses Spike as his choice for Buffy out of Angel Riley & Spike in the quote.

I wish Joss loved Cangel.

I think it's more than obvious Spuffy are is fave ship out of them all.

My sig is what he said at the EW reunion about Spike.

I have such a love/hate thing for Joss since Cangel are my second all time fave Buffyverse couple & in my top five fave ships ever!



There are lots of more reasons why I love/hate Joss than that though as well.

Nothing will make me love Cangel any less of course.

I wish so much David Greenwalt never left & really am bitter about this.

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Joss straight up came out as a Spuffy shipper not long ago:
http://www.screencrush.com/joss-whed...ter_mobile_top

I had considered that as a backhanded vote for Cangel but you said he used a Romeo and Juliet analogy for them and apparently when he does that it's an insult.

Jaime Bee

Nope for Bangel not Cangel.

I think he probably does like Cangel more than Bangel.

He is never is asked about Cangel though.

They are a lot like Spuffy the way they were a mature relationship.

The real kind & YW really was pro Cangel.

He keeps comparing Bangel in quotes to Romeo/Juliet.

He hates Twilight & called Bangel a kiddie romance like it.

I had a gif in one of my PBs of that at a Con a few years ago.

It doesn't work now. I don't feel like looking & reuploading it though.

Look again who does he refer to?

I saw this. He tried to act like he liked both at EW Reunion but basically like here gives Bangel a backhand compliment calling Angel Romeo but clearly thinks Spuffy are better b/c of the realistic mature relationship.

"I’m a Buffy/Spike shipper. I always felt like he was a more evolved person, but that’s like saying Juliet’s going to be so happy with Benvolio and everyone will love it. Buffy/Angel is for the ages; Buffy/Spike is maybe for me."- Joss Whedon

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Oh that is such a relief! BOOYAH!



Ironically, I'd just gotten off a 4-year Twilight high when I started AtS and BtVS and I totally saw a lot of Twilight in Bangel minus the triangle (Unless you'd count Xander or Darla).

Screw that. Angel is so NOT Romeo.
I'd go with Othello, especially in season 4 of AtS.
As I've never read it, I can't assess whether or not the fanfic's comparison to Pride & Prejudice is accurate.

straws

I love Faith/Buffy.

It doesn't compute to me that they had Buffy hook up with a girl in the comics and it wasn't Faith. Fuffy had the foreshadowing and subtext already there.

But I don't like how that story-line was handled at all. How they tried to make it like Buffy was 'experimenting' yet ~so hetero.

Satsu is a cutie though.

Giiiiiirrrrrrl.

I don't think Joss cares about Cangel at all. Maybe he kind of liked it at one point, but after throwing his mantrum at CC, I don't think he liked anything Cordelia was a part of. He basically tries to pretend CC/Cangel never existed.

He also said James had more chemistry with DB than CC, and she admits hearing that hurt her.

Joss also said "[Angel and Buffy]’s the grandest love story I will ever tell. You can’t argue with that.”

I don't think he hates BA. (Though the Twilight comic arc would heavily suggest it!)

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So Buffy turned Bi?


He seemed to be interested enough in the idea, he wrote WITW and YW illustrated that he did care to some degree as he wrote the final scene with that masterpiece of a kiss.

Although the episode as a whole was not initially meant for her, he ended up feeling that YW was a satisfying ending for Cordy.
Truthfully, he hadn't wanted the ATF appearance, that was writer Bryan Lynch's doing, but this was the only reason.

CC has publically stated that she and Joss have reconciled, so I'm told.


What's the order? Quote first or Twilight Comic arc first?
If the quote came first then the Twilight Comic arc could indicate that his opinion changed. It is possible for opinions to change.

As painful as this is to admit, I initially liked Bangel myself, very briefly. I blame the fact that I was in a Twilight hangover when I started watching AtS and BtVS (yeah in that order, I watched up until Faith's appearance in AtS before BtVS). Now I hate them.

There seems to be some double play from DB as well.
He's praised Cangel pretty hard. He even brushed Buffy aside as nothing more than a part of Angel's past in the midst of protest from an interviewer who was a Bangel fan (the interview was about where season 3 was going as a result of Connor's birth if I recall correctly) and stating that Cordy is what Angel needs but FuriosityShell once shared a quote with me where he called Cangel weird and said Angel's heart would always belong to Buffy.
*sigh* Oh David.

EDIT: Here is another fantastic fanfic:
Storm

Wolfram & Hart dropped Angel to the bottom of the ocean, not Connor (Connor doesn't exist) and erased all memories of him including his own but Angel and Cordelia's connection survived.

Jaime Bee

Buffy slept twice with this random slayer basically that was in love with her & Buffy knew she was. Her name was Satsu.

This bothers me b/c we had things that showed she had feelings for Spike when she was using him but couldn't really face them until won his soul back.

There is a lot that showed there were feelings to me.

Buffy even admitted there were feelings but she couldn't trust him enough for it be love.

This is what gets me about that scene though going back to Bangel.

It always bugged me that Angel asked her if she loved him & she said she did but didn't trust him in the first time she told him.

This was when he told her about his past after months with Drusilla only b/c I feel he had to since she was in town & Buffy saw them together.

The quote is from EW Reunion but I just can't believe it's that sincere. Maybe it's just shipper biased but there are so many quotes before this that don't fit it.

Angel is Romeo. It makes it sound like Bangel are really just some fairytale like romance that is just tragic but to me stupid b/c I thought Romeo/Juliet were idiots.

"Buffy with Angel are too Romeo/Juliet when it happen & you get bored." -Joss

So again it's like a backhand compliment to me.

" In terms of Long-term relationships, Spike's your guy & he got a soul for her. He evolved in a diff. way." - Joss

So which sounds better?

Joss even explains Spuffy but not Bangel.


YW makes me think that Joss would like Cangel over Bangel too.


Plus the way Angel was written in Chosen was being so petty b/c Buffy had been with Spike.

It had nothing to do with wanting her back just not wanting Spike to be with her.

Buffy was luckily the mature one about things.

I didn't think other than the kiss was much fanservice.


I'm glad the Comics have had some good Cangel moments.

We need some arts b/c all I have to post are SpuffCan in the PB that is working.

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Interesting.

Ironic because I read a suggestive fanfic last week or so. I posted the link on the first page of this thread, it's called Seeing and Believing.
There is a scene in which Buffy catches Angel and Cordy having sex and almost fingers herself to it.
From that point forward there are various narratives that suggest it was Cordelia's body that aroused her on not Angel's and the next day she asks Willow an awkward form of how she knew she was a lesbian.

It doesn't go anywhere, unfortunately. While it's a good story, it's kinda badly written and that is one of two major developmental flaws.

I thought the idea intriguing though I don't support it at all.

Sounds like Bangel problems all over again.
Remember in IWRY, how it was Angel turning human which made her want to be with him again?


I admit I forgot to look at it exclusively through a Bangel lens. I can see how he's Romeo with Buffy. Just Buffy.


A backhanded compliment to Cangel? Yeah, feels like it to me as well.


Oh god, I hated Angel so much in that crossover but I've established the headcanon the kiss was just his attempt to feel something, anything because he was numb from loss, losing Cordelia and losing Connor both in a couple week span and that his Spuffy jealousy was more about the fact that Spike had obtained a permanent soul and could love freely. (In Angel's POV)How the hell could Spike have earned that and not he?

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I've just returned from what is becoming my traditional Halloween comic shop spree with a friend.

I came across the last issue of Angel season 11 and scanned it. Having done so I caught some of the scene in which Angel and Illyria kiss.

What irked me the most was that Illyria sounded possessed by Cordy in the lead-up.

Angel and Illyria somehow traveled back in time to when Angelus was newborn, the night his family is slain.
As I said I just scanned it but it seemed Angel wanted to kill newborn Angelus to undo all his sins and Illyria, ILLYRIA, NOT FRED (Fred would have made a lot more sense) gave him this 'You're Welcome'-ish speech about how that would also undo all of Angel's good and I think about how everything happened for a reason and he's a hero.

In retrospect, perhaps that's why Angel kissed her because he felt Cordy's presence in her words.

Otherwise, it seemed like a real interesting story.
Angel got to see his little sister Kathy again and hold her and tell her how much he missed her. It looked really sweet.

So I bought the first three issues and the second and third volumes of Angel & Faith.

Ashes Fall

I've just returned from what is becoming my traditional Halloween comic shop spree with a friend.

I came across the last issue of Angel season 11 and scanned it. Having done so I caught some of the scene in which Angel and Illyria kiss.

What irked me the most was that Illyria sounded possessed by Cordy in the lead-up.

Angel and Illyria somehow traveled back in time to when Angelus was newborn, the night his family is slain.
As I said I just scanned it but it seemed Angel wanted to kill newborn Angelus to undo all his sins and Illyria, ILLYRIA, NOT FRED (Fred would have made a lot more sense) gave him this 'You're Welcome'-ish speech about how that would also undo all of Angel's good and I think about how everything happened for a reason and he's a hero.

In retrospect, perhaps that's why Angel kissed her because he felt Cordy's presence in her words.

Otherwise, it seemed like a real interesting story.
Angel got to see his little sister Kathy again and hold her and tell her how much he missed her. It looked really sweet.

So I bought the first three issues and the second and third volumes of Angel & Faith.

Edit: Just finished reading this and it's made my list of most amazing C/A fics of all time:
Shadow of the Beast
It's a C/A telling of Beauty and the Beast and it's just perfect. Well very nearly perfect, there's this thing at the end--but it's not the worst.