Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Betrayers #2: Who betrayed Buffy the most/worse? - Page 3

**Burning Up A Sun** · 08-29-2009, 03:39 PM

Oh yeah I'm not saying that having sex with a corpse is okay. I was just saying that in that instance when compared to Buffy not being in her body it's sort of the same thing. Both were horribly wrong and yes it is against the law to have sex with a dead body.

Rightfully so.

I wonder if it really is considered necrophilia that Buffy has sex with vampires. I wonder if it is if it's two vampires.

I guess I can see that.

That it's like being unconscious and someone having sex with you. I think for me it's because she had sex with Riley I don't find it as offensive. I mean Buffy does because Riley should have known it was her and blah blah, but since it was someone she knew and trusted and was already sleeping with it's not as grave as if it had been some stranger. Is that wrong of me?

wilywiccan · 08-29-2009, 04:01 PM

I think that in some ways having it be with Riley made it better while at the same time it made it worse.

On the one hand, Buffy didn't have to have her body defiled by some strange man that Faith picked up at a bar or nightclub. Then you know they would be having their sick way with Buffy's body. And Buffy might have had to see the man afterwards and have him know what it was like to be inside of her and to touch her and kiss her. It's disturbing.

On the other hand, having it be with Riley is just as wrong since Buffy cared greatly for him and the idea of him making love to FAITH must have hurt so much. The fact that something so wrong and intimate happened using her body just makes it so much worse in many ways than if he had just slept with Faith.

**Burning Up A Sun** · 08-29-2009, 08:40 PM

See I can agree with the first part. Knowing that some strange man had slept with you, knew every inch of your body, had been inside you. That is horrible.

But while it must have hurt Buffy to know that Riley slept with Buffy/s body while Faith was in control I don't think you can say that Riley was making love to Faith because to him he was with Buffy and nobody else.

It's not like he knew that it was Faith behind the wheel and still did it.

Sosa Lola · 08-30-2009, 12:42 AM

The scene could be also about Faith raping Riley, if he'd known it wasn't Buffy, he wouldn't have had sex with her.

wilywiccan · 08-30-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sosa Lola (View Post)

The scene could be also about Faith raping Riley, if he'd known it wasn't Buffy, he wouldn't have had sex with her.

ITA.

**Burning Up A Sun** · 08-31-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sosa Lola (View Post)

The scene could be also about Faith raping Riley, if he'd known it wasn't Buffy, he wouldn't have had sex with her.

I actually hadn't thought about that.

But I don't know if I could see it as that since he did consent to the sex... even if he didn't know Faith was behind the wheel.

If anything he could feel violated.

wilywiccan · 09-01-2009, 01:44 PM

He wouldn't have consented if he had known Faith was behind the wheel. It would be like if a man snuck into a woman's bedroom in the middle of the night and she thought it was her husband and started having sex with him. Even though she willingly slept with him if she had known it wasn't her husband there was no way she ever would have done that. So I think it does count as rape since the intruder (Faith) took away the person's (Riley) ability to make an informed decision regarding sex.

**Burning Up A Sun** · 09-01-2009, 05:41 PM

I don't think those are the same situations at all.

I mean for starters Faith was in Buffy's body so aside from her acting a bit off Riley had no way of knowing that it wasn't Buffy. He was enjoying himself being none the wiser. The woman that's asleep and some stranger comes into her room and starts to have sex with her... I would think immediately she would know it wasn't her husband and try to fight him off or whatever.

I think Faith violated Riley but I don't really think she raped him. Rape isn't just being able to make an informed decision about having sex... I mean a lot of people aren't completely informed when they have sex but that's not rape. And people that are actually raped have made that informed decision not to have sex but the other person forces themselves on them anyway. Again, I go by the legal definition of rape and it's forcibly and against their will. Riley was fully willing to have sex. Faith took advantage of the fact he thought it was Buffy and he was violated but not raped. Now if she had convinced him that she was in fact Faith and then proceeded to successfully force herself on him then it would be rape. IMO.

wilywiccan · 09-17-2009, 12:30 AM

I guess I see it more as a type of date rape. Like if a guy drugs a woman or has sex with her when she is much too drunk to make any kind of decsion and he knows that she will feel disgusted or ashamed of herself in the morning when she realizes what happened. He knows she will feel violated that a total stranger had privilege with her body and that she consented even though if she had been sober or in her right mind she never would have touched him.

I guess I am more flexible with the R word in that I believe that there are a lot of different kinds of sexual assault and a lot of them don't involve the standard "guy forces himself onto girl" variety. Statutory. Making the person think you will harm someone else if they don't do what you say. Having sex with them when they are way too inebriated to to say "no". Forcing them to become prostitutes against their will like with human trafficking. Glamouring or wearing a mask so that they think they are being with someone else.

**Burning Up A Sun** · 09-18-2009, 07:46 AM

It's not that I'm not flexible with the word but I just think in these instances it's more of a violation.

Riley wasn't date raped or anything like that... he quite enjoyed himself and he was awake and alert and aware of his surroundings... except for the whole Buffy/Faith thing. I don't really think of it as date rape because of those things. Would he have slept with Faith if he had known she was in Buffy's body? No definitely not. But he did willingly sleep with Faith because she was in Buffy's body. He was deceived and violated but I don't think... in the Buffyverse he could have pressed charges and said that she raped him.

I think there are other parts of rape that you mentioned that I do agree with like Date Rape, being drugged, or too out of it to say yes but I guess I'm just stuck on the fact that Riley was awake and happy and ready/willing to have sex. I'm not saying that what Faith did wasn't wrong.... I'm just saying that I don't see it as rape really, it's more of a violation and a deception to me.

But do we have any new topics?

chemistry86 · 09-18-2009, 11:42 AM

I think it was wrong for Giles to conspire with the principal (his name escapes me), in season 7 to kill Spike. I feel like Giles had a vendetta against Spike for a long time and used someone elses vendetta against Spike as an excuse to pretend like he was teaching Buffy a valuable lesson, lol. Or even if he did not have a vendetta he didn't trust Buffy around Spike so he went behind her back to find a way to get rid of him.

**ashleyt** · 09-18-2009, 10:27 PM

^ His name is Wood.

I understood part of Giles motives here. Spike was a threat to the potentials and Buffy since the First was able to use him and the Scoobs had no way of discerning how or what the ultimate plan was. The thing was that it wasn't Spike's fault that he was being used and if he could have fought the trigger (at the time) he would have. That's where I didn't disagree with Giles. If Spike was a willing partner than I'd be all for his death but he wasn't. He was a victim too.

I also didn't agree with him going behind Buffy's back. But I don't blame Giles for that. I blame the crappy writing because it's too OOC for me. Giles doesn't have to agree with Buffy but he always respects her decisions and stands by her side.

I didn't expect Buffy to see that he had a point nor was I expecting their relationship to crumble as it did.

S7 sucked

**Burning Up A Sun** · 09-18-2009, 10:36 PM

I don't like that he went behind Buffy's back and I don't agree with him teaming up with Wood to do so but I don't blame it on the writing.

I don't think he was OOC. He was just different than what we had seen. But then again I don't think any character is OOC ever. I don't believe in it. I don't think we know everything there is to know about the characters to say whether or not they are acting OOC.

**ashleyt** · 09-18-2009, 10:44 PM

Ever? So there's no such thing as bad writing to you?

**Burning Up A Sun** · 09-18-2009, 10:46 PM

There's a difference between bad writing and OOC. Gossip Girl has bad writing but I wouldn't say that that makes the characters OOC. OTH has bad writing but I don't think that the characters are OOC. Maybe because we didn't get an explanation on why Giles was acting the way he was people think it's OOC but maybe it really is just bad writing in that they didn't do a thorough job explaining things. I don't know if that makes sense to you but I just think people use OOC a lot as a reason to excuse characters behaviors or write them off when they don't like those behaviors.