Karbear3916

Wednesday, August 18th @ 5pm(ET)
"Double or Nothing" TV-14-V, CC
When a demon Gunn once sold his soul to comes to collect on the debt, Angel, Fred and Cordelia help to save him.

Airing on TNT>

Dark omega zer0

I think it should have been Cordelia to visit Wesley instead of Fred. They've known eachother since BTVS, she's been gone, it makes sense for her to visit him. I didn't like them forcefeeding the viewers into the whole Wes/Fred thing. And the REAL Cordelia doesn't end up seeing Wesley til Season 5.

lunas_borednow

Worst Episode EVER!

kitsune

Yep, I agree 100%. I've said this a thousand times now.

lunas_borednow

Fred was always shown as wanting to forgive Wesley throughout the entire Wesley took the baby arch...

Didn't think that even scaled on the worst things to happen in that episode...

kitsune

I know she cared for him, but it doesn't change the fact that Cordy was closer to him. They had known each other the longest and she should've been there for him. The writers had suddenly gotten this idea in their head that Cordy only cared about Angel's feelings in concerns to all matters. The Cordy I knew cared primarily about her feelings and she always did what she thought was right. The Cordy that spent an entire year bonding with Wes and Gunn when Angel abandoned them, would not have left Wesley to rot in that hospital.

lunas_borednow

Oh, I can completely agree with that.

This was the start of Angel's Saint Cordy really. I wanted her to ask what the hell both of them were thinking and tell Angel he was an idiot and tell Wesley he was an idiot. But I also wanted more Fred/Wes scenes... because I love all of them even the ones that hurt like this one did...

saturn5

DOUBLE OR NOTHING

The Good;
The Groo and CC back which is marvellous. Lovely little scene with CC and Angel and also a lovely little scene of Pylean kinship between Lorne and the Groo over the 'ritual of the bereaved'. Wonderful final confrontation too, watched this ep first at a convention and people cheered when Angel delivers his line
The Bad;
The angry young man Gunn stuff is not so good. The cockney demon debt collector is deeply stupid, Guy Ritchie has a lot to answer for. When he first sees Caritas Gunn comments he's never seen anything like it but we find here he has (unless he's never seen karoke before?).
Best line:
Angel; "Am I the only one who owes this guy money?"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
CC staking the guy's hand to the table. Gunn being so mean when breaking up with Fred is also hard to watch as is the guy getting his soul removed by Jenoff. Jenoff's death is not half as yucky as his 'rebirth'.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; Angel loses the card game and actually cheats, breaking his word to the guy. We think Fred is going to be more sympathectic towards Wes but she rejects him.
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cordy's tatt; 10
Cheap Angel; 9
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3
Kills: Gunn kills a skench demon
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 39 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 10 vamps+ 11 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 1 vamp
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8

Characters killed:
46
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
6, Angel, Cordy, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
The demon fancies Fred, again weird, shouldn't demons like other demons? Groo comments Gunn is fortunate to have a woman such as Fred to 'take care of his weapon'.
Captain Subtext;
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Blonde Cordy! Angel seems unaware that Fred and Gunn were dating, I thought he overheard them in 'Waiting in the Wings'. No leprechauns in the Angelverse although considering how they appeared on Charmed maybe we should be grateful. Wes coming home to an empty flat is a real killer. Angel refers to the AI gang as family.
Marks out of 10; 6/10, fun but nothing special

livstevi21

Ok, so Wesley made a grave mistake. His actions were questionable, sure, notably when he went savage on Lorne before taking Connor. But the poor guy. I feel really sorry for him. I really wasn't expecting sweet Fred to tell him off when she started to say how she understood why he did what he did. It came off as almost similar to how it looked like Angel was going to forgive him. And Fred had always defended Wes after learning about his actions so that didn't make sense to me. Yes, ok, perhaps he should have gone to Gunn and herself, if not Angel and they could maybe have helped him get Connor to safety. He wasn't thinking. But he truly thought he was doing the right thing and again, he wasn't to know that the prophecy turned out to be false. I felt so bad for him when Fred told him that, that what he tried to do was all for nothing. You can see how awful he felt hearing that. The poor guy is in pain and can't talk. Again, if Justine hadn't caught him and done that to him he would have gotten Connor to safety and Holtz would never have been able to take him. I'm sure he's beating himself up for what happened more than anyone. It was even more upsetting seeing him have to go home to an empty apartment and no one offered to pick him up from the hospital.

I wished Cordelia had gone to see Wes when she returned with Groo (I guess Angel was right about her returning with gifts for Connor awww). I liked how she comforted Angel, gave Gunn words of encouragement but didn't like how we never see her concern for Wesley. Whatever bad he did, he doesn't deserve such cold treatment. Especially coming from Angel and his past.

I like Cordy's new blonde hairstyle. She looks so different.

Gunn and Fred were cute up until he went all nasty on her saying all those words to "break up" with her. I like how Fred knew he would never have said those things to her unless he was in trouble. And he sold his soul for a truck?! Seriously? Teenagers do some crazy things but that seems a bit dumb. I guess I understand it meant a lot to him and how it helped him and that he didn't think his soul was important because he didn't think he had a future, but wow lol.

Aww the ending with Angel taking down Connor's crib.