Karbear3916

Tuesday, August 17th @ 5pm(ET)
"Forgiving " TV-14-LV, CC
As Fred and Gunn search for Wesley, Angel searches for Sahjhan and casts a spell to make him corporeal so he can be killed.

~*Magical*~

I can't wait for this episode. It is one of my tops for season 3. Just the ending alone made this a great episode. I never expected Angel to try and smother Wesley like that. Not that I blamed Angel one bit, I just didn't see THAT coming. And I was on Angel's side in terms of what he was feeling. David did an outstanding job in that scene and I litterally felt Angel's anger and grief through David's acting. That scene blew me away.

More thoughts on the episode after I watch it again tomorrow.

Fiona

I get angry every time i watch this episode.

I can't believe the gang would believe the worst of Wes - only Fred seems realise their must have been a damn good reason for Wes to take baby connor. Wes is the one who is ready to make the tough decisions and take whatever action is necessary no matter what the personal cost to himself. A trait that Angel doesn't see or understand until s5 "Lineage"

It breaks my heart when Fred tells him it was all for nothing... *sob*

saturn5

FORGIVING
The Good;
Some great acting from Amy Acker as Fred is horrified that Connor has been lost to a portal, just as she was. The little girl in the White Room is a really creepy little moppet.
The Bad;
Gunn and the orderlies seem to overpower Angel at the hospital very easily (although I guess that settles the whole question of Angelus' confrontation with Xander in 'Killed by death'. Thinking back on the cops/security guards in that scene would probably have had tasers which is weapon that seems to affect vamps a lot. Although bullets are no joke to them either)
Best line:
Angel; (heartbroken) "Cordy will be back soon, with presents for Connor"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Lilah cutting her hand just like Darla, the whole 'women cope better with pain' idea certainly gets a lot of mileage in Joss's shows. Angel meanwhile prepares to stick a needle in Linwood's eye. Angel attempts to smother Wes and is quite prepared to kill Lilah to get his son back. Justine is beaten to a pulp, so much so that even Gunn feels sorry for her. Fred using the hot coals against Sahjhan is pretty damn ruthless.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; we think Angel will forgive Wes after he's so compassionate to the poor guy at the accident but oh boy he doesn't! Sahjahn mocks the standard Hollywood buddy-cop thriller. AI are getting hammered by Sahjahn but get saved by Justine?
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cordy's tatt;
Cheap Angel; 9
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4
Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 39 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 10 vamps+ 10 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 1 vamp
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8

Characters killed:
46
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
7, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat; Gunn refers to the shotgun Wes keeps that we saw in Epiphany
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Angel tell Justine he isn't her boyfriend and she should find someone else to smack her around.
Captain Subtext;
Sahjhan once again demonstrates his insecurity about his masculinity, insisting he flitted in a 'manly way'
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Linwood get's kidnapped and threatened with torture
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Shouldn't Linwood know who Lorne is? Surely Lorne's concern for humans and disregard for 'slimy demons' is hypocritical. Like any good Watcher Wes keeps comprehensive diaries. Why do people always cut the palm of their hands in films? Surely that's one of the most sensitive parts?
Marks out of 10; 8/10 here comes the emotional pain but it's SUPREMELY well done.

livstevi21

omg the ending The way Angel turned like that on Wesley, he almost killed him! I get that he's angry. He misses his son so much. But it's not Wes's fault. He believed the prophecy was that Angel was destined to kill Connor and he took the baby in order to protect them both. If it wasn't for Justine he might have gotten Connor to safety. It's sad to find out from Sahjhan that he made up that prophecy, that it was all false. Just makes the turmoil that Wesley went through when he deciphered it all the more depressing. He took drastic measures and probably could have gone about it in a better way. In some ways, maybe he should have told Angel about it and that the only way to make sure Connor was safe was to take him away, at least for a while? But then, Wes was only doing what he thought was best for both.

I would think Cordy would be kinda mad to find out so much has happened in her absence and no one told her. Fred was right, she would want to know, she wouldn't care if it ruined her holiday because she cares about her friends. I get why Angel didn't want her to know until everything was right again and that she did deserve a break, but still.

Fred was right about a lot of things in this episode. She's just so sweet. But man, I loved when she clocked Justine for telling her and Gunn that she slit Wesley's throat. Good for you, gal!

It's truly a miracle how Wesley survived for that long, out there in the open. I thought for sure that he was dead. Then that homeless guy found him and got him help...though I thought he might have been up to no good when he dragged Wesley to behind the bush and then covered the tracks. I mean, that's not exactly what you do, is it? You call for an ambulance. Wes's phone was right there. And then he did also take Wes's wallet as well, though he was checking for his ID.