ERussia

The Catch is cancelled.

Gelfling

Well characters wise, it's true. But the acting was mostly good, despite the material. Not counting Krause. And I don't even like Michael C. Hall in Dexter. And ofc Frances Conroy was head and shoulders above the rest of the cast, even when she had nothing to do. Which was most of the time.

That's a good point. It's exactly like that. Just because they started as "leads" and it's from a book so they have to remain leads.

That was really weird. It didn't work for me at all in s2. They took it too far in the s1 finale. She got better but yeah it was BS. And ironically, Pennsatucky is one of the names in the book. The real Piper said she started off prejudiced about people like her, uneducated, crackheads from the Bible Belt but she was really surprised by her warmth and how she was trying to better herself and get an education so she could get a new start from her time in jail, and how open-minded she was with others. So basically, the exact opposite of the character in the show

They did a bad job selling that story. She's just been abused and used her whole life so it's got to be "normal" to her. But he seemed sorry and he was "otherwise" "treating her well" so she fell in love with him. She's like a puppy who gets kicked and keeps following his master around lovingly. It's pretty sad but they didn't sell it right.

Because the character got to be super popular thanks to the great performance of Uzo Aduba so they killed it by trying to make it more mainstream.

I'm relieved. Mireille Enos can do so much better! And she just wanted a part where she was going to be all glammed up so that people would forget about The Killing. She got it. Now she can move on.

ERussia

If only some shows like ER and TGW were like that, lol. Some get rid of actors too easily. Grey's Anatomy also.... They had an explosion in last episode again, btw. So hilariously bad.
Yeah... And while he is in higher position, she didn't really try to say no... That looked strange.
Evil Shonda promised her a hit, probably.

Gelfling

Yeah some shows suffer from the GoT syndrome

what's the damage?

I really don't think so. I think she went in thinking it would tank but that she'd get enough exposure from it, since it was a Shondaland show, that everyone would forget about the sweaters and chapped lips Detective Linden. She needed a part that was completely the opposite of that and that was going to be visible enough while not making her a prisoner of network for years.

Now she can go shop for cable parts without being told she's "too sad looking"

ERussia

My eyes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUdY1cM6TBQ
I don't think anyone would like to flop on purpose and originally it was a different show before they replaced some actors. People said it was much darker.
Considering that Shonda only had one flop show before (Off The Map or something), it was clear she was looking for a success. I agree she wanted to get rid of her image, though.

Alwayshappy

I'm sad for the Catch, especially because it ended on a cliffhanger (so I hear, haven't seen it yet). It wasn't the best out there, but it was entertaining and it was nice to see Enos in another role. But yeah, I agree that she took the role for her image. Don't think they tanked it on purpose though. From what I hear they never made a chance, because lot of fans were against Scandal the year the Catch debuted, so they kind of boycotted Shonda's new show. Shame.

At the same time ABC renews Once Upon a Time....with 6 original cast members leaving the show I hear that the coming season finale delivers a lot of closure, because they knew who would be back and who wouldn't, but I just wish they would have just cancelled the whole show...especially since the closure is there. But I love the show, so I will keep watching anyway.

Saw that explosion on Grey's yeah. CGI wasn't great, but to be fair...it's no GoT, or something. We watch a lot of network shows and nearly 99% of the shows have the same kind of CGI. But you don't have to watch it if you don't like it or are annoyed by it so much imo Can't wait to check out the season finale next week. Will miss it this summer. Summers are hard, nearly all of our favorites are gone Thank god for GoT and 1-2 others.

ERussia

It's not only CGI in Grey's... They are walking aroung the same decorations during all episodes, pretending them to be different floors and parts of hospital. It just looks so cheap. And most viewers have love/hate RS with this show, so I'm not alone.
I don't think Scandal sabotage has anything to do with The Catch. The story was just not it and some of actors too.
OUAT is renewed because they got rid of expensive actors, but it's a huge mistake. No one will watch it.

Alwayshappy

Again, that's basically the same for a lot of network tv shows out there And I'm not saying you are the only one (there are plenty of fans of every show out there who love/hate a show, that's not just Grey's) I'm just different I guess, if I begin to dislike/hate a show I'll just stop watching. Saves me lots of frustration

PetiteFleur

Sorry for disappearing on you too, and I have no excuse (well, apart from being lazy and apathetic )

And still:


I've felt kinda low in the recent couple of days, partly because of FD interview with Steinberg. He said sooo many beautiful things about the characters, and re: the ending he has his own settled view of it, but he refuses to impose that on anyone else. And they basically said to him that they appreciated the ambiguity of the ending, but only the dark version makes sense, with that Jack's speech at the end, and has a "cathartic" effect because of the darkness/light theme. How ***ing rude is that?? To say that to THE WRITER OF THE ***ING SHOW?!
I take my words back, I don't recommend listening to that podcast.

Also, I have an issue with people who pretend to be this open-minded and praise the show for the way it treats its LGB characters like it's a non-issue and how "a viewer could totally forget that aspect of [Flint] so many times because it really didn't matter at all."
I mean, it's true that sexuality isn't the only aspect of the characters on the show and they're all portrayed as complex individuals, but to *forget* that Flint is gay, one has to make an effort, and I wonder why one would feel the need to
Flint's vendetta against civilization is so personal, and is caused exactly by his sexuality having been used against him. And people who refuse to read Flint from the angle of his sexual identity are missing out on so much depth and meaningfulness. Especially in his Freedom In The Dark speech.

Oh, and people who think the story wouldn't change AT ALL if Thomas was a woman. Get out of here.

Oh, I completely get why she had to go from the narrative point of view (Steinberg previously said he had fought it for quite some time though), I just meant that it was so painful, and with all the additional layers that you notice upon rewatch I just want to diiiie It's just never enough Miranda for me
Also, her dead body being thrown vegetables and stones at was foreshadowed by that scene when she was working in her garden and some neighbor's kid called her a witch and threw something at her. This show is torture sometimes.

Haven't started American Gods yet, but I saw they hyped the gay sex scene from 1x03 being almost pornographic on twitter, so apparently Starz have no problem with it (also, Spartacus), I wonder what was the case with Black Sails. It's not like a sex scene was absolutely necessary, but some intimacy wouldn't hurt.

Yeah. I kinda appreciate the concept of Root ultimately "becoming" The Machine, keeping in mind her love for her, but at the same time, with Root/Shaw relationship, which is another example of something that wasn't planned from the beginning but was developed beautifully, it feels really cruel (not to mention that we have another name on the Dead Lesbians list)

Waiting patiently for your thoughts

I take it you didn't like ghost Miranda then?

On another note, did you watch The Young Pope? A few of my friends whose opinion I usually trust were singing it praises, but its premise is not something I feel I would like, and I don't believe in Jude Law's acting abilities.

I hate-watched Sense8 second season. IDK, I like the concept, but not the execution. I mean, the idea that what matters most is what we have in common is great but not when you pretend that the differences don't exist. Like, are we actually supposed to feel that being called a pig for a white cop from Chicago is exactly the same as being called a ********* for a gay man? When the latter comes from the place of power and oppression, and the former is what those who feel oppressed use, I don't know how do they not see the difference?
And the dialogues sometimes feel so contrived, as if they're from some Social Justice 101 textbook.
And I just hate Kala/Wolfgang storyline, and apparently everybody loves them? He's not even hot, why would she fall for him at first sight? Just because they're sensates is the lame excuse, really.

I was looking for something light to watch (not comedy shows though), and someone recommended the Australian show Newton's Law. It's a court drama with the leading lady recently separated from her husband, who returns to working for a big firm of an old university friend who obviously has had feelings for her, sounds familiar? I almost don't watch procedurals any more, but it's only 8 eps, so I decided to give it a try, and from the first couple of eps, I can say that it's really cute Oh, and an old university friend is played by Toby Schmitz
Did I say he's a delight?

Gelfling

I doubt it was much darker considering the teenagers they had cast in the leads but I do believe the show changed a lot from its first incarnation.
The problem was the writing really. Everything went down so fast because the writing team was a bunch of beginners from the Shondaland bench who had almost no experience and were brought in to turn the show into some lame soap for ABC female audience.

Whenever she was actually on screen. She was supposed to be the lead but by mid-season in S1, you already saw less of her than of the Boring Brit Crime Family.

Well, good for the crew I guess. Then again, they've had how many cast members by now? I'm sure they'll live.

But then they shouldn't act like they are. IF you don't have the budget for a decent explosion, either write something else or shoot around it and don't show it. But I guess it would take smart writing.

I'm only looking forward to 3 shows this summer:
Game of Thrones
Orphan Black
UnReal

you are none of these things and I told you already, you are welcome as long as we're here

and on the continuing Black Sails obsession

Well, that's what great writers do. They write subtle and complex characters and scenes and they let people make their own mind about it

I was about to say that! What's the point of interviewing the guy if you're just going to make the same boneheaded conclusion you did before? Plus, they are being contradictory. If it's ambiguous, then it's impossible for only one ending to "make sense". It's either one or the other. Ambiguity means they both make sense and you pick the one you prefer.

Right. Like it needs to be forgotten so you can like him or something as if he was a child rapist

yeah because obviously they were treated just like any couple would have been. It's not like they had to hide or were persecuted or blackmailed or anything

Now if they mean their love was written just like it would have been if they had been man and woman, then sure. But if they mean they could have made Thomas a woman just so the bigots and the homophobes in the audience would be more comfortable watching the show, then

She was such an interesting character. It's rare to see such a unique supporting character in a tv show, let alone in what seemed like a dude show.

That's just like you said before. The writers like these little foreshadowing and symmetry and the full circle thing. Bastards

yeah somehow I feel like if it was a straight scene, nobody would call it that. It's actually pretty well shot. And I'm now eagerly waiting for the dudebros outrage because yeah it was shot just like they would have done a straight sex scene, and it even got full frontal. So hmmm but it's not what I'd call porn.
And two Muslim actors to boot so it's going to get ugly in the comments section for a while (and it must have been tough to cast even though Omid Abtahi already played a closeted guy in Sleeper Cell) but hey, it's all in the book so anybody who claims they've been deceived can just learn how to read

They probably thought they would lose too many viewers. American Gods was a guaranteed hit so they went straight for it (pardon the pun) and also, again, it's in the book so I'm sure Fuller asked them for carte blanche if he was going to do the show at all.

That completely spoiled me though. From the first scene of the premiere I knew Root was a goner and the Machine was the one talking.

It really was nicely developed, very organically, from the actresses chemistry, unprompted unmanufactured chemistry, for a change. But yeah that trope has got to go and even though this show was the last one I was expecting happy ending from, it just bugs me that she was the one to bite the bullet.

I completely forgot I owed you! Apologies and I'm asking for your patience a little while longer. Again it's very late and I need some bedtime

It wasn't a dream sequence really. It was a physical reenactment of internal thoughts.

Heh that's exactly what stopped me as well. Jude Law is a no-no for me and I'm not into religious shows because I get mad

I am making it last because who knows when s3 will be released but I'm enjoying it more than S1 so far. Although I do understand what s1 was about and all the mechanisms of control society imposes on us, I felt they just dragged the individual storylines way too much instead of getting into the main arc.

I don't think they don't see a difference. I think the point is that we all feel isolated from each other sometimes. I don't think there is a single group that is immune to feeling rejection at one time or the other. Some forms of rejection are obviously worse and more traumatic, or deadly, than others but that doesn't mean they don't impact people.

Ugh. I feel like they don't know what to do with either of them so they did this. I don't really care about them at all. It's not even the love at first sight, it's the opposite attracts BS as well. Come on. A little more personality on these two, perhaps?

Never heard of it but with GoT and Orphan Black coming up, I feel the need to shore up on light hearted shows to balance my chi (thank the tv gods for UnReal) and Aussie tv usually delivers

ERussia

HTGAWM is dark despite teenagers. They probably thought 2 dark shows won't work, so they light The Catch a bit. Either way flop 2 season show doesn't look good in her resume, I feel bad for her. I really like her and you can tell she is attractive, even in TK.
My main problem with show is how cheap it looks, I just can't handle. They are using green screens and CGI everywhere and they are not realistic, AT ALL. Thinking of it, they only use a real helicopter once (for a pilot) and ever since 4th season show is looking worse and worse every season. Why I keep watching? Why I finished ER (when last 2 seasons were really bad, not Grey's level bad, though)? Why I finished DH? Etc. I'm watching it for years + maybe I'm somewhat emotional involved, IDK.
I'm glaid for Jerika Hinton, though. She is so much more than this show can give.

Speaking about sense8. It looks like porn, tbh. Like it's LGBT-bait, but that's it. I mean, who doesn't like sex scenes, but it's the only thing I heard about.
I once read an interesting comment about TGF. Someome asked "Is it lesbian enough for me to watch?". I don't understand people who watch shows only for sex/one character/their ship/people of color they like. Meh.

Alwayshappy

Once Upon a Time never had a real big cast though. Nine main actors I believe, with a lot of returning guest stars/recurring stars. So when 6 out of 9 leave I'd call that a big cast shake-up, one the series is not going to survive imo. I bet next season will be its last. I'll keep watching, cause I'm curious, but I'm having bad feelings

Regarding Grey's...well, if Shonda wants to write an explosion...she has to show one, I don't see another way around it. Yeah, not write an explosion. But Grey's is known for their absurd disaster episodes, so it would change the DNA of the show and it would cause a lot of fans to drop out. I guess most Grey's fans are like me...they watch it for the (often over the top) story, the characters or the drama/humour and not for the CGI. And again, it's not like it's the only show out there who has cheap CGI.

Anyway, we'll be watching the season finale this friday, can't wait to see it. I still love the show and considering the show is heading into its 14th season I'm not the only one thankfully

PetiteFleur

You don't know me



I just can't ****ing stop! And I'm not exaggerating a bit when I say that for me it's the best show. The best piece of any media in the recent years, really.

Some kind soul have written up his FD interview, so help yourself.

To be fair, they were much more polite at expressing their opinion than I made it seem to be But still, where's this need to tell the creator, who repeatedly said he won't impose his views on anyone (although I'm pretty sure he's on a light side ), what version YOU feel is better, is coming from?
And what nuance is gained through this idea that Silver killed Flint in the exploration of the darkness/light theme I. JUST. DON'T. GET.
I'll be forever bitter about it, I guess.
Oh!! And they interviewed Louise Barnes! (it'll be uploaded later, in a couple of weeks most probably) I can't wait to hear what she has to say about Miranda, or anything really, but imagine my horror at the same time, considering some opinions of one of the podcasters, Liz, about her.

And she's such an enigma, but no one would say it's because the character is underdeveloped. (And if someone does say it, I will fight them. Although, I'm gonna need some training. Or help. Yep, a little help from my friends. Or Flint, it's even better )

And there's so much of it from the very first episodes! Like, it was Silver who brought the knife when Randall was stuck under the ship (the most obvious one). Or Eleanor's father told Mr. Scott that she would get herself killed either "by English noose, or Spanish sword" (thanks, Woody, for saving her from the former and bringing the latter on her).
And I'm sure there's more, these are just off the top of my head.

Yeah, I saw some gifs of the scene popping up on my tumblr dashboard (because I never bother to block spoilers, heh), and I've been really surprised at how tender it looks. I haven't read the book, but if the intention was to show connection between the characters, they really achieved this (and that's only from the gifs!), and it's never what porn is about.
Oh, and dudebros are already whining that they want their eyes bleached. And I think that's actually a solution!

I've been thinking about it in regards with Max/Anne as well. Some people say their sex scenes are mostly for male titillation, and I don't think I can agree. While they're explicit as it often happens with female sex scenes, for me they never felt forced or fetishizing, you know? IDK, maybe I'm biased, as I really like both characters individually and as a pairing, but if you pay attention ( ) you can actually see how Anne gradually lets her guards down, and it's important for her in order to understand she's not who she thought she was. And Max - damn, she's so protective and gentle with her, since the very beginning when it's not even clear if she genuinely cares for her.

And ahhh, same with Thomas. He's so... impossibly tender and gentle, even though he's always very determined to get what he wants. But never aggressive? Yeah, I'm talking about their first kiss here, but the scene is really telling about him as a person. And it's so very important to have a character who don't go "I know what you want better" and just shuts another character's mouth with a kiss for a change. He's waiting for James' response, and well, he does respond. And it's beautiful

No worries, take your time! It's not as if I'm in a hurry or something

Fair enough. Although isn't it what dreams are usually about?

Oh, I totally get that was the intention, that's why I wish the execution was better. It just feels really insensitive to put some things in the same line. Besides, being a cop is a choice, unlike most of the things mentioned in that scene.

Two words: teenage drama Oh, I'm so bad, stay away from me - Oh yes, I will, except when I won't! But It's bad, it won't happen again! Except when it will!

Also, talk to me about The OA, or rather explain it to me I feel stupid, I really liked it but at the same time I didn't understand what happened And I don't even think it matters if she was telling the truth (although I would argue that she's an unreliable narrator only because the idea that ahem russian oligarchs would put their children on some bus is ludicrous ), but I still want to know.

People want to feel represented and to watch a story they can relate to in some way, it's pretty understandable and... human? And ultimately the stories are a very powerful tool that shapes our reality.
Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but that's exactly why I'm still riding high because of Black Sails: it's such a meta show about narratives and stories and who gets to tell your story, more than that, it's about stories of all kinds of minorities that were erased from history, distorted to fit into the narratives of the civilized world. Ahhh, watch it, people!
For me personally, it wouldn't be enough to start watching a show if all I know about it is that it has queer content, but if I hear the show is good AND it has interesting queer characters it'll definitely go up on my list to check.

On a different note, my English is... not good enough

Gelfling

Well yeah but they're not the leads or the only actors.

They just started with an idea and one of the Brits in the production team said "hey we could totally rip Hustle" and it ended up being this Frankenstein monster with 20 different stories and the look of a comedy that is trying too hard to be dramatic at times.

I like her too and I wish her luck. Honestly I don't think flops matter anymore. Matt Perry has tanked a dozen shows since Friends and he's a drug addict, and still he keeps getting leads and guest spots. Visibility is more important than success now.
You probably get more visibility from being in 6 different shows in 5 years than being in the same show for 5 years. People and the media kinda forget about you after a while. New shows get promoted.

well yeah because that's the only thing the media are going to talk about. It's not as if they were going to discuss the complex themes. Especially if they're not watching. You don't get that from the press release and twitter feeds
There have been a couple of sex scenes, not only LGBT related, and they were not even graphic by nowadays network standards. But sure, have a straight couple **** for 20 mn on screen, you won't even get a press mention out of it, but show two guys in bed together, you're going to hear about it for 6 months

I really don't either but then I never identified as anything except a twin and I don't really need twins to watch a show (I guess I'd be in trouble if I did )
I can get that some people feel the need to identify with characters in a show to be involved but it seems to me that if you're reducing yourself to your sexuality, you are missing out on a lot of things you are

That's nowadays perspective. I have no problem with an explosion happening in a show without it being seen on screen. The important part is the fallout, not the explosion. It would be way better, and easier, actually, if someone who wasn't there heard about it on tv or something. The emotion you'd get out of that person's reaction would be way better than the one you get out of a badly produced pyrotechnics extravaganza.

I'm making my own reality. I don't know what you look like either

Cool. I was going to listen to it anyway but now I can discuss it

... and yet they want to ignore the possibility of a happy ending for him?

Heh here it is again. I can't help but love modern writers who still take inspiration from classics thousands of years old

Because they want the conclusion to be concluding things. They want their feelings vindicated so they say that to him, hoping they get the thumbs up.
It's like all those people debating what the end of Inception "truly means" and who's right and who's wrong when Nolan himself said, after being asked a million times, that people are focusing on the wrong question and that the point of the movie is that reality is subjective. Still, he'll get the question for years.

They just will bend anything to make it fit their theory. I think people in general like things well wrapped and concluded and they are very black and white in their view of the world, unfortunately. So they have this idea that the show is about who's good and who's not and at this point, they pick a side.

well that should be fun. And I doubt she will be too shy to set the record straight

That's what is brilliant about her really. She's a supporting character in the true sense of the word. She doesn't really have her own story even though as the show develops, her arc is folded into James's journey as it related to Thomas anyway. And yet, her own character develops through that supporting role. Even though there is so much we don't know about her, and her past, this connection is what makes her so vital to the show.

OMG I literally eeeeeeeeked at that one

especially considering we don't know either character at this point.

poor homophobes, there is really nothing left for them to watch that's truly made for them. but hey, they can still rewatch westerns from the 70ies so

I agree with you. Even with Max and Eleanor, their sex scene was about establishing the connection between them to give more impact to the eventual betrayal because you assume their relationship is purely sexual, even mercantile, only to realize later that it's much more than that, at least for Max.

I'm fine with sex of any kind in a movie or a tv show, as long as it's not gratuitous. If it's about the characters and/or their connection, it's not gratuitous.

that's where the change in Anne's character is the more visible throughout and you can tell it's not gratuitous titillation because without these scenes, there would definitely be something missing.

And again, going against stereotype because most people have these bizarre misconceptions about same sex relationships that somehow they are about imitating traditional gender-based relationships and since Anne is dressing like a man and acting tough, unlike Max, she was going to be acting like a guy in the relationship whereas Max is the one who is the most protective and who takes the lead most of the time.

I love that scene. I have no idea how much comes from the direction, or if they had different takes with different dynamics but I feel it's mostly the actors truly inhabiting their characters beautifully. They just come together. Nobody is the aggressor and it's all the more important in a relationship between men because again, misconceptions, and you wouldn't want anyone to believe Flint is being forced into something he doesn't want. It's very clear at this point that they are both willing and reaching for each other.

I feel I need to rewatch, not the whole season maybe, but the finale, to think about things we discussed

Depends. Most of the time that's what they want to be about I guess but they are so on the nose (or there's the classic "let's pretend it's not a dream but hey everybody acts really weird and oh no! it's a dream! shocker" ) it's hard to take them seriously.

I get your point, although he is a cop's son and well, that kid's disappearance when he was young, informed his life more than he'd wanted, but yes it's a choice. And it's definitely not the same as being persecuted for loving someone people disapprove of.

never! I've enjoyed our talks way too much and you are entitled to act out

you join a pretty big club. Isn't that a beautiful thing to enjoy something without being able to wrap your head around it entirely? Smart tv is too rare

EXACTLY! Thank you! Damn, I don't know how many times I've posted this on imdb and other places. It's about the journey, not about the question. As in Inception, reality is subjective and the fact that these four people believe her is way more important than whether or not she is credible or truthful. Damn, I hope s2 doesn't try to explain too much.

She's definitely not reliable as a narrator but she's a compelling one so you keep forgetting you shouldn't trust a word she says because nothing can be corroborated or verified
Hell, we don't even know if she ever had a father. For all we know, she could have been born to one of these teenagers her "aunt" was using to make babies for rich Americans and because she was "blind", she was set aside.

So no, you're not stupid, you get it. It is impossible at this point to know if she's telling the truth. Anyone who pretends to know for sure is either lying or denying a part of the facts.
Most people just assume that she's lying because of the books found under her bed. Why? IF her story is true, wouldn't it be natural for her to buy books about angels and anything Homer related and other dimensions? Those books don't mean we've been Kayser Soze'ed.

It's about the connection between them. The added mystery of what truly happened is the bait but the real story is the characters.

I get that but there is more to any person than who they are attracted to. There are many ways you can relate to any given characters that are not about who they sleep with.

on those tweets.

ERussia

He is a man and Friends are like the biggest show ever.
They are. But true + they look like they are 30.
But it's not like Grey's is any better, yet it still on air. Why?
It's true. And these type of people is also the one who scream "racism!!!1", "anti-feminist" first.
SO true. Shonda is all about cheap explosions/guns/omg moments. And it's not like she is main Grey's writer, she barely wrote 30 episodes of like 300.