[Lily_Marie]

I managed to write a nice long post yesterday, which FF then proceeded to eat!

This is how much the ep managed to get me think: I was so busy pondering the whole LG Vs. FAA debacle, that when I was in the shower, I used body wash for my hair and conditioner on my body!

So, first on the subject of 'stealing' clients, Yes, it was stealing. FAA were recruiting the firms clients using LG resources and during company time for a new firm. As a partner of the firm, Alicia has (had?) a fiduciary responsibility towards it. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but most lawyers keep in close contact with their clients. So, if a partner leaves, the clients generally tend to go with them. Which is why I really didn't get why everyone thought that it mattered that Diane and Will took clients when they left their old firms. Even if it is wrong, two wrongs don't make a right. FAA didn't have to be underhanded on the way out. It isn't just about taking clients that were theirs, they were downloading files illegally that weren't theirs.

Cary and the associates have all right to be pissed off. They did get screwed with the issue over the partnerships. Also, Diane, I love you but you didn't mentor Cary. But here's the thing, I thought accusing the partners of getting the associates to do all the leg work was silly because that's how it works! By the way, in season one, Alicia and Cary were battling in out b/w them because LG could only afford one of them, where did all of the rest of the fourth years come from?! Also, everytime I think about A/C running a firm with the rest of those morons.....

I knew from the get go that there was no way Kalinda was going to screw LG over. It did amuse me to see her play Cary though. As much as Kalinda does care about all of them, between Alicia's frigidness and Cary and her screwing each other over, I can't see her actually wanting to work there. I'm looking forward to her scenes with Will now. Will be interesting to see them (and Diane) work together against the person the care about most in this band.

Peter, Peter, Peter. Yeah, I really need him to start paying. Why exactly was Peter so upset that Alicia was fired? He didn't really think they'd throw her a party to send her off with the way she was leaving, did he? Also, I'm not sure that taking away the judgeship from Diane is a smart move. Last season, Peter was fairly certain that Will would bury the vid because of Alicia. So, can Will now turn over the video of the voter fraud w/o getting into trouble himself?

Alicia, I really don't know. She's come a long way, hasn't she? Once. she used to be disgusted by Peter and his shenanigans, now she's happily accepting it. But then, as long as Peter as abused his power to help her or the kids, she's never really been against it. So I guess this makes sense. But seriously? This was supposed to be Alica's crowning glory, where she branched out on her own. Now, she's just gone from being 'under Will' to being under Peter. Ugh! Speaking of A/P, I was in giggles over that scene where the head to the bedroom and then crank up the volume. All those people in the living room had to have been uncomfortable!

The show needs to stop selling Alicia as the moral compass and the paragon of virtue. It doesn't work, not anymore. Last season, one of the reason she wanted out of LG was because she was uncomfortable with the unethical-ness. Every time there was some shady business going on, we'd get the requisite scene b/w Alicia and Will, where she'd be all 'How could you do this?!' This episode had Alicia use Zach; remember when she wanted her kids away from this mess?. She was the one to suggest that they go to Bishop. Then there's the business with Chumhum and Peter, etc.

Alicia isn't obligated to LG. They gave her a job and she repaid them in full by doing a good job. Alicia isn't obligated to Will either. Everything he did for her, he did of his own accord. She didn't ask him to. Yes, she did get a job because Will gave her one, but she's not obligated to treat him the same way he treats her. Thing is, when someone does a lot for you, without expecting much in return, except at least your loyalty, you may not be obligated to grant them the courtesy of consideration of their feelings, you choose to do so. I know that her defiance during her confrontation with Will was supposed to be 'badass', but I didn't get it. She was confident in her clientele, on her way out anyway, what was the point of the 'No'. In that moment, there was no moral high ground for her to stand on and Will was well within his rights to ask her to leave.

Why were FAA so mad at getting fired? No was was LG going to keep them around after the got caught!

Also, 'It's not personal'? What did she think it was going to be?!

I have more to say, but I can't remember it This is it for now! Wow, it's been a while since I've written a post this long

because the show is not very clear on its characters, they kinda act mostly as they need to act for this or that arc.

This. As much as I loved the ep, it's becoming more and more clear that they don't have a handle on the characters. Like, why was Eli surprised at Peter?

ETA: The scene b/w Alicia and Will regarding Grace was a highlight! Like they took a break from being mad at each other to be adults about something.

ETA 2 :

Don't get me wrong, the way they are leaving is lousy but they never would have even got the itch if they hadn't been treated like dirt in the first place. And while Diane and Will were not responsible for the promotions getting canceled, they were the ones using Alicia's promotion to divide the 4th year associates. You start using warfare tactics on "friends", you can't expect them to just lie down. It would be too easy.

Which is why I can't fault Cary or the other associates leaving LG started it, the fourth years are just repaying them

None of these people are faultless in this mess and I like that. It makes me think about things and it's so much more fun that the complete boredom of last season!

ETA 3: Alicia really threw herself off the pedestal Will placed her on, didn't she? I'm glad.

[thegoodwifefan]

Oh and welcome to the board

Thank you! Pleasure to be here.

Nah I don't know if that's it.

Maybe not though I got the impression that AP was hinting at that in that HuffPo interview. I could be wrong, of course.

Also, wanted to add that I get that Will feels betrayed...(By the way, I love the way JC plays Will even if I don't like Will as a character) but let's face it, part of the reason he hired Alicia was probably because with what Peter had done, he felt he had a chance with her, so it wasn't all altruistic...

[Solar]

Don't get me wrong, the way they are leaving is lousy but they never would have even got the itch if they hadn't been treated like dirt in the first place.

So true! What was done to the fourth years wasn't nice at all - if it were me, I'd be pissed -, so the partners maybe should have approached things differently, I don't know.
And lousy is an euphemism for what they are doing to leave I almost feel bad for Cary and Alicia

By the way, in season one, Alicia and Cary were battling in out b/w them because LG could only afford one of them, where did all of the rest of the fourth years come from?!

This has been bugging me too. Did I miss something or is it just inconsistent?

[MsRedO]

In terms of this episode, are Will and Diane forgetting that they merely offered the 4th years partnerships so they could get money from them when the firm was in trouble, and then played the 4th years off each other (to drive a wedge between them...ie giving partnership to Alicia alone)? And now they're surprised that there's backlash...?

Hmmm. I don't think that Will and Diane forgot what happened with the 4th years promotion. But there is another way to see this, in the context of the time: if Will and Diane hadn't come up with their plan to save the firm, every one, including the 4th years, would have lose their job. So it is not like what the partner did was selfish at first. They saved everyone's job. Also, this partnership offer wasn't expected by anyone, it was a "good" surprise for them. It is not like they had been waiting for years. What was ****ty was to rescind the partnership offer, but that was David Lee's idea, not Diane and Will. And they were to give the 4h years bonuses (which is why they wanted to delay their departure). So yeah, the partnership deal was not cool, but it is not like the 4th years were "robbed" or treated like dirt either. They had the right to feel disappointed and even a bit angry. But to me, no matter how big their disappointment or resentment, that doesn't justify or equate what they did when they decided to leave: stealing clients and illegally downloading those files. I am not saying that they shouldn't have done that: good for them to go and make it on their own. But don't come with some "excuse" or "justification", like it is even or fair play.

[Srta_Parker]

They have the right to leave but without stealing clients. That wasn´t right.

[Izmar23]

By the way, in season one, Alicia and Cary were battling in out b/w them because LG could only afford one of them, where did all of the rest of the fourth years come from?!

I think Cary might have been the last associate that they hired and then Will got Alicoa the job so they put them up against eachother so only one would get a position. There is no way a firm as big as LG only has one associate per year, there was probably more than 5.

[MaggieTheCat]

Hello everyone!

This is my first post and I'm glad that I'm writing my first post at the very best episode!

I loved every minute of it! Let's see...

Will... Oh god. This episode was really a Josh Charles episode. I totally loved all of the emotion swings, first the shock, then the anger and becoming the badass Will. I think he has all the right to be angry anyway. And "Angry Will" is soooo much better than "The puppy dog eyes Will" at the 4th season. It's good that he is not going to cry after her. Go and kick their asses Will!

Alicia, you are my girl. I like you always but this was... bad. I really wanted her to have her own firm, to stand on her feet, be strong. But betraying a friend like Will, not cool. I also don't think that she should stay because he gave this job to her, come on. But that was not the only thing he did for her. Scumbag Peter made an investigation because of his relationship with Alicia, he always kept it cool, said she doesn't need to be sorry, always understanding, always caring. He never sold Peter out because of her, even Peter was coming after him. She may not like his management ways, she may not agree with him on ethical issues (oh come on, you are married with to the "Unethical King" darling) she has a right to leave, I want her to leave. She didn't have to stab Will in the back like this.

And this wasn't meant personally? She knew it's a lie even when she was saying that, she is just trying to convince herself. Also of course he will think it's personal, he loves you stupid, like you love him.

Anyway, I am so not sorry Diane didn't get the judgeship. I love her with Will, they are the perfect couple, especially when fighting together. I also knew Kalinda was playing with Cary (she was so cute, she is never that cute) and I am happy to see her on Will's side, like always. I am rooting for L/G because Diane and Will didn't deserve this all along. Yes they did deserve to lose Cary & the other ass. Cary has all the right to leave and screw them, not Alicia. Also I can not root for Alicia's fail, because I'm too invested now I want her to be successful without Will or Peter which does not apply to this moment.

One last note. I hate you Peter. Even when you are trying to make a good thing, you make it wrong. Coming after the lover of your wife with you governor power?

I am only rooting for your fail. Don't take Eli with you, even he is more mature than you right now.

[Gelfling]

Maybe not though I got the impression that AP was hinting at that in that HuffPo interview. I could be wrong, of course.

I think she is just a little tired of always taking a backseat and the character being a very low priority. If they had booked Juliet Rylance for a number of episodes, the way they did with Melissa George and just about any other recurring character, they wouldn't have lost her again. You can't expect actors to wait by the phone for TGW to call every time they need Kalinda to get freaky with a lady to shake the ratings during sweeps.

Also, this partnership offer wasn't expected by anyone, it was a "good" surprise for them. It is not like they had been waiting for years. What was ****ty was to rescind the partnership offer, but that was David Lee's idea, not Diane and Will.

True, but they (especially Will) could have had the courtesy of informing them about it. And later on, it was Will's idea to offer a promotion to Alicia to divide the united front, wasn't it? That was not very cool either.
Not saying it justifies the dirty play because you can always be bigger than your opponent, but Will and Diane shouldn't be surprised things turned sour.

I managed to write a nice long post yesterday, which FF then proceeded to eat!

Marie! is eating your posts again? not right! But then they are so big and yummy how can resist?

So, first on the subject of 'stealing' clients, Yes, it was stealing. FAA were recruiting the firms clients using LG resources and during company time for a new firm. As a partner of the firm, Alicia has (had?) a fiduciary responsibility towards it. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but most lawyers keep in close contact with their clients.

Good point. I'm just really surprised a law firm the size of L&G wouldn't include a "non compete" clause in the lawyers contracts. Everyone I know who is working in an agency of some kind and has to deal with clients on a management level (account directors etc) has one. If they leave, they can't work with the same client, even in another firm, for 2 years at least.
So for lawyers? I don't know. Does that not exist in the US or is it an oversight?

Also, Diane, I love you but you didn't mentor Cary.

I like how Diane has been the "Phantom Mentor" to everyone in the firm. We heard a lot about it but never saw her actually do it

As much as Kalinda does care about all of them, between Alicia's frigidness and Cary and her screwing each other over, I can't see her actually wanting to work there.

Kalinda is a very loyal person as a rule but her loyalty is not a one-way street. If it was S1 or S2, things might be different, but in this situation, it would have been totally OoC for her not to side with L&G.

I'm looking forward to her scenes with Will now.

I hope we get a lot of them. And with Diane too. Let's see what happens.

his was supposed to be Alica's crowning glory, where she branched out on her own. Now, she's just gone from being 'under Will' to being under Peter.

I am not as invested in Alicia as I once was, I'm not gonna lie, but this all feels like she's being cheated of a huge character development here. Instead of leaving for the right reasons, the right way, to make things right and try her wings and be more independent, it feels once again that it's about anything and anyone but her.

Speaking of A/P, I was in giggles over that scene where the head to the bedroom and then crank up the volume. All those people in the living room had to have been uncomfortable!

Not as uncomfortable as they'd have been with the sound of lovemaking

The show needs to stop selling Alicia as the moral compass and the paragon of virtue. It doesn't work, not anymore.

Somehow I wished MJ Fox would come back to the show ( what's wrong with me? ) just to see ALicia get outraged at his methods and his ruthlessness again. Because I'm sure she would and well... you can't play the blushing virgin when you've been around the block quite so publicly

Also, 'It's not personal'? What did she think it was going to be?!

That line just killed me Not personal? Really?
It's as if two athletes who were long-time friends were pitted against each other in the finals of a competition and one of them cheated and then said "oh nothing personal, really, sorry"
If she had left to create her own firm, let Will know her intentions, that would have been fair and square. If he'd been offended, she could say "it's not about us or you, it's about me". But doing the whole thing on the down-low, stealing clients using firm resources... how can you do that to someone who considers you a friend (not even getting into romance here) and be so naive you think it won't be taken personally??

[Chanel123]

What an episode!

This episode was without a doubt in my top 3. I have loved every minutes of it and what can I say about Alicia, I just love this new side of her, I love that she's not giving up without a fight and will basically take no **** I feel sad that she left L/G but I have to admit I kind of enjoy them (Alicia/Will) being on the opposite side. they're both very competitive people and I think its fun to watch as we all know neither of them will back down without fighting

I ship them more than ever

The only thing I didn't like about this episode is the fact that Peter took away Diane's judgeship without any valid reason, she didn't do anything to neither Alicia or Peter personally and I don't think she deserves this but its of course my own opinion

[DR76]

I am not as invested in Alicia as I once was, I'm not gonna lie, but this all feels like she's being cheated of a huge character development here. Instead of leaving for the right reasons, the right way, to make things right and try her wings and be more independent, it feels once again that it's about anything and anyone but her.

I disagree. It's about time we see the more ambiguous side of Alicia. After four seasons, I thought she was in danger of acquiring a sainthood. Then again, a lot of fans usually don't deal well with a morally ambiguous leading woman . . . unless they're watching a comedy show.

[Gelfling]

After four seasons, I thought she was in danger of acquiring a sainthood. Then again, a lot of fans usually don't deal well with a morally ambiguous leading woman . . . unless they're watching a comedy show.

no need to come off so aggressive. I have no problem with morally ambiguous characters, heroes bore me to tears (and I hate sitcoms ) my gripe is with the way things are done, that make it look like Alicia is not in charge of anything but more reacting to other characters' decisions, which is not the way it should be.
And that's one of the reasons I care less about Alicia. No matter what they do with her, it always seems to be about someone else. Will, Peter, Cary, the brats etc. It's got nothing to do with her being more ambiguous (which I don't really think she is either anyway)

[EndlessღLove]

Also, Diane, I love you but you didn't mentor Cary.

Also, everytime I think about A/C running a firm with the rest of those morons.....

Kalinda, Will and Diane against Cary, Alicia and the 4th year idiots... yeah I would be scared if I were FAA. But again I wonder how long the powerful trio will last.

Now, she's just gone from being 'under Will' to being under Peter.

I don't see what's wrong being "under Will" to be honest. She has been working only 4 years as a lawyer and she got partnership already She should be thankful tbh.
And yes, I thought the whole point of leaving the firm was "independence". L&G won Chumhum fair and square but then Peter says a couple of words and FAA wins the client, yeah, no I know that it's how it works in RL (or not ) and I really hope they avoid the "Peter helping FAA" route.

Also, I'm not sure that taking away the judgeship from Diane is a smart move.

Has he ever made a smart move? Peter is as one dimensional as you can get. I am really trying to "understand" or even "like" him but I can't. Asking your wife to renew your vows because you were tempted by the blonde chick you saw probably twice at work... yeah no

By the way, in season one, Alicia and Cary were battling in out b/w them because LG could only afford one of them, where did all of the rest of the fourth years come from?!

Maybe they belonged to Derrick Bond's part of the firm Cary left and came back as a 4th year so maybe the reached some kind of a deal with Derrick's employees to stay when he left.
The Kings probably don't even remember Bond tho.

[Substance]

Originally Posted by EndlessღLove (View Post) Has he ever made a smart move? Peter is as one dimensional as you can get. I am really trying to "understand" or even "like" him but I can't. Asking your wife to renew your vows because you were tempted by the blonde chick you saw probably twice at work... yeah no

Alicia can't be a good wife without a bad husband. That's what Peter's character ultimately comes down to. I still like Peter. I think he has never had a badly written scene in the show.

[wardengrill]

Originally Posted by EndlessღLove (View Post) Kalinda, Will and Diane against Cary, Alicia and the 4th year idiots... yeah I would be scared if I were FAA. But again I wonder how long the powerful trio will last.

Yeah,I'm all for L/G being beaten by Alicia but not by a bunch of,excuse me,frat boys.


(by the way,why everyone has left the beautiful Will/Kalinda party,please don't leave me alone there! )

[StarryFlower]

Originally Posted by EndlessღLove (View Post) Has he ever made a smart move? Peter is as one dimensional as you can get. I am really trying to "understand" or even "like" him but I can't. Asking your wife to renew your vows because you were tempted by the blonde chick you saw probably twice at work... yeah no

Peter made a lot of silly moves this episode! Threatening Will on the phone when he knows Will has that video of the voter fraud. Giving that speech on social networks paying tax - how is he going to explain going back on that? And won't the press make the connection of him giving that speech and then his wife signing Chum Hum that same day? Also, by not giving Diane the judgeship, he is effectively giving her back to Will as an ally to take down his wife. Not to mention that she will be even more angry and vengeful at the Florricks now that Peter took away her judgeship. I don't think he really thought that through!

by the way,why everyone has left the beautiful Will/Kalinda party,please don't leave me alone there!