[Gelfling]

And... I missed Kalinda, like in every epsiode since this season started... ¬¬

... and about 20 episodes in S3.
I just can't even believe they botched the Cary beating follow-up.

And the only character who doesn't even register a reaction to Cary's bruised face is........

As expected, the cutting down of Nick and Kalinda just makes the episodes feel disjointed. But...lesser of two evils at least it's almost over...I think--I hope.

Honestly, if that's they way they are going to go about it, just have someone say he got ran over by a bus off screen and drop it altogether. That's not even bad writing anymore.

[ylana]

A rather enjoyable episode! Very Alicia focused, great acting. Alicia's mom was great...the lines, LOL! And it was nice to see both sides of her, kick ass lawyer and mom/daughter/wife. I've got the feeling they're going back to the original name of the show, the GOOD wife. It should be interesting to see how things develop.

I do agree the Nick guy is a huge waste of time.
Cary, that poor dude!
Diane laughing...makes me day!
Will...so charming as usual.

And Kalinda? I'm just happy she had a drink with Alicia. It could have been worse. It could have been her and the creep in bed. Argh!

[Kimlegaspi]

It was a great episode, sometimes it was hilarious, sometimes it broke my heart, sometimes it was just entertaining and a joy to watch. Excellent acting, especially by JM. I was really touched by Alicia's pain and frustration and bravery. And it was good to have Owen back.

But what I didn't get AT ALL was Cary's storyline. I was soooo frustrated to see him walking around as if nothing has happened, telling lies about his black eye. Why would he lie about it? And why was everybody so completely oblivious? Kalinda didn't notice, Alicia didn't notice, Will and Diane did notice but didn't do anything but looking at him, and the rest of the firm didn't notice it either. SO WHAT'S THE POINT? Why did we have to see the beating scene again when all we got was a Cary/Nick conversation with a death thread?

What happened to the Cary/Nick/Kalinda/Alicia storyline? I was so convinced that in this episode Kalinda would notice Cary's injuries and would make the connection to Nick and would make the connection to Alicia and would finally DO something about it. But now? Is this all we get? Or does the inconsistency have to do with Thanksgiving? This is an honest question because I'm not American and we don't celebrate Thanksgiving where I live. Is it possible that 4x09 was just a decoupled Thanksgiving episode where every storyline freezes like Sleeping Beauty and will be resumed in the next episode? On the other hand, if the intention was to put the other storylines on hold why didn't they just send Cary on Thanksgiving vacation instead of emphasizing the storyline at the beginning and then give us a surprising healthy looking Cary threatening Kalinda's husband? Or could it be that the inconsistency was a result of quickening Nick's storyline so that he can leave earlier than planned?

[Jaundice]

But what I didn't get AT ALL was Cary's storyline. I was soooo frustrated to see him walking around as if nothing has happened, telling lies about his black eye. Why would he lie about it? And why was everybody so completely oblivious? Kalinda didn't notice, Alicia didn't notice, Will and Diane did notice but didn't do anything but looking at him, and the rest of the firm didn't notice it either. SO WHAT'S THE POINT? Why did we have to see the beating scene again when all we got was a Cary/Nick conversation with a death thread?

As always, I have a theory, and it goes like this. Originally, The Futon Critic listed episodes going only through 4.09--according to that site (which is based on information released by the networks), we were supposed to have a rerun on 11/25, and then "A Defense of Marriage" was supposed to air on 12/2. Once the press release for 4.10 came out, all the dates were reshuffled to what we currently have, with 4.09 airing on 11/25 and 4.10 on 12/2. So here's my theory. I believe that there were originally supposed to be TWO incidents with Cary getting roughed up, the first less serious and more ambiguous than the second. I think that originally in 4.08 Nick jumped Cary and gave him the black eye. It was probably unclear both to Cary and to the audience just who did the jumping, because it might have been Cary's angry ex-friend, pissed because Cary had put him on the stand to testify against his boss. The original press release for 4.08 said something about Kalinda's growing more suspicious of Nick, and that makes some kind of sense if Cary and Kalinda were to have had a conversation that led Kalinda to think that Nick was the one to punch Cary, especially since Kalinda knew that Nick was already acting jealous of Cary. This all would have culminated in Cary's confrontation of Nick at his job; that scene either could have taken place at the end of 4.08 or the beginning of 4.09.

Punching Cary impulsively out of jealousy seems a lot more in keeping with the Nick we've come to know than a psycho thrashing. I think that it was supposed to have been the conversation between Nick and Cary, in which Cary basically threatened Nick with the entire power of the States Attorney and indicated knowledge of what might be an ongoing drug running operation, that led to the really serious beating by Bill--at that point, Nick and Bill were sending a deadly message to Cary not to screw with their livelihood. While I can imagine little Cary acting tough to Nick when it was just a question of a black eye, I can't quite picture him being foolish enough to confront Nick after that beating from Bill. You'll notice that it's pouring rain on Thanksgiving night in 4.09. I think one of the final scenes in the episode (not THE final one, because I can't imagine a more perfect fade out than Peter and Alicia framed by the window blurry with rain) was supposed to have been the beating. (There was a cheesy establishing shot in 4.08 to show the audience that yes, it was suddenly raining, which I think gives further evidence that the scene was from some other place.) I imagine that they WERE going to indicate that Cary had been pretty badly messed up and was healing in the five weeks of time that would have passed for the audience between 4.09 and 4.10. If I'm right, this compressed narrative is really too bad, because it looks more than a little foolish to have a serious beating just result in nothing more than a black eye. I'd pay big bucks to know how close to right I am on this one!

[Jazzed]

Originally Posted by karma7 (View Post) This episode moved some stagnant plots ahead a little, thankfully. Cary's smiling threat toward Nick was masterful. They'll either manage to send him to jail again or scare him off forever. I prefer this than if he had confronted him directly about the beating.

I loved that scene in fact! So much going on, and I loved how Cary didn't budge and sent out a very clear message about what Nick was messing with, and how he risks paying the price for that. Far more powerful than calling him out on it or somehow having a scene at the office about it imo. I don't think that would be enough to convince Alicia at this point anyway to be honest, she's too far gone as she even let her work (which she obviously takes much pride in) and related relationships suffer over this a**hole ..
Denial can be a powerful thing.. My guess is they will need a stronger emotional trigger to snap Kalinda out of it.. What happened with Cary may well be part of it, even a catalyst of sorts, but it's not enough on itself, I think..

Obviously Nick did throw in a couple of nice threats himself so that may well be part of what will be the end of him and A/N .. For me this has gone on more than long enough leading to nothing really so please, please let it be very soon, very swift and very definite...

Alicia defying her mother by acting out sexually with Peter. Although it was petulant and impulsive, I hope the aftermath will be that she seriously allows herself to think about what will make her happy and start making some bold moves.

This was exactly what I didn't like about her going back to having sex with Peter. For me it seemed to be for all the wrong reasons. Maybe she needs to go through this and a few more changes to realize what she does want and need to be happy, so I guess it can be a positive thing in the end.. But to be honest to me it just felt like she reverted to the situation she was in years ago, mostly out of defiance to her mom and how she tried to meddle in her life when clearly not having been involved at all, and making a mess of her own.

I do think JM and most of the other cast did a great job acting this episode, and I liked the insight we got into her relationship with her mom (which fit the bill and explains a lot surely). But I definitely didn't like the endresult because to me it just was for all the wrong reasons. I hope it's just meant to be a catalyst to make Alicia think about what will make her truly happy, and then going for that.

I'm still no fan of Peter's though - once a cheat always a cheat imho. He's proved that more than once. I hope she realizes this at some point and indeed, can let go - regardless of their roles as parents to the kids..

ETA: I get why they're still keeping the Peter angle/storyline, it makes certain things more interesting and/or believable, wrt the connections Alicia has being 'the wife of', and the political angle.. However I'm starting to have some definite credibility issues by now..

[Rainha♕Primavera]

So, we meet Alicia's mother. Although she seem a little mad, I think Alicia and Owen had more luck than Cary. Hateful his father.

I think Alicia's mother was being protective when she spoke with Peter but Alicia will not give up the leadership of the situation. She don't want to give up anything.

And this hostility between Cary and crazy Nick has everything to not end well.

[Gelfling]

So, we meet Alicia's mother.

I love Stockard Channing! She's perfect for the part.
Actually we like to take credit for her being cast because we discussed it first here years before they even had Alicia's Mom on the show and then some media people picked it up and I'm sure the Kings read it somewhere and cast her because of that

Although she seem a little mad, I think Alicia and Owen had more luck than Cary. Hateful his father.

Heh she's an interesting character. Cary's father made me so mad! Poor guy. No wonder he turned out like he did. He's a good guy but he's always trying so hard just to make his father proud.

I think Alicia's mother was being protective when she spoke with Peter but Alicia will not give up the leadership of the situation. She don't want to give up anything.

And she shouldn't. Mothers sometimes know best but that doesn't mean they know everything there is to know about a situation.

And this hostility between Cary and crazy Nick has everything to not end well.

Ah Cary! he wants to be badass but he shouldn't take on more than he can chew

[Rainha♕Primavera]

I love Stockard Channing! She's perfect for the part. Actually we like to take credit for her being cast because we discussed it first here years before they even had Alicia's Mom on the show and then some media people picked it up and I'm sure the Kings read it somewhere and cast her because of that

Nice. Is valid when the team connects with the public opinions without necessarily giving up the work driving.

And she shouldn't. Mothers sometimes know best but that doesn't mean they know everything there is to know about a situation.

That's true. But I was referring more to the current posture of Alicia in relation to her life. In the desire to want to be at the center of the situations all the time, she ends up getting lost on the way.

[Kiki17]

Originally Posted by Gelfling (View Post) I love Stockard Channing! She's perfect for the part. Actually we like to take credit for her being cast because we discussed it first here years before they even had Alicia's Mom on the show and then some media people picked it up and I'm sure the Kings read it somewhere and cast her because of that

I take credit for this too actually It was definitely us

[Gelfling]

Nice. Is valid when the team connects with the public opinions without necessarily giving up the work driving.

well they should have listened to us more, obviously (if they had, they'd have never even brought Nick back after a few episodes ) but I think there was a lot of attention back in the first seasons regarding the input of the fandom.

I take credit for this too actually It was definitely us

And we never abused our powers

That's true. But I was referring more to the current posture of Alicia in relation to her life. In the desire to want to be at the center of the situations all the time, she ends up getting lost on the way.

true. it's a recurring thing with her.

[Rainha♕Primavera]

well they should have listened to us more, obviously (if they had, they'd have never even brought Nick back after a few episodes ) but I think there was a lot of attention back in the first seasons regarding the input of the fandom.

Yeah, I can see that they have the tendency to bad closing of script. Nick's plot for example. I want to believe that there is more than a presumption that Kalinda killed him.

[Gelfling]

Yeah, I can see that they have the tendency to bad closing of script. Nick's plot for example. I want to believe that there is more than a presumption that Kalinda killed him.

They left it so open, for no reason at all since they never intended on bringing him back, thankfully, that even Archie doesn't know what happened.
Personally I don't see what else could have happened but then why not make it more obvious since there was nothing about that storyline that was subtle?

[Rainha♕Primavera]

Yeah, they abuse of the outstanding issues and that's bad for a show. I for one do not like.

[break the window]

I don't even recognize this show half the time

[Gelfling]

I don't even recognize this show half the time

I know what you mean. It went from a fun and fresh character drama, to a self-conscious and confused mess in just a few seasons.