[witgit]

So I've had some time to think about it, and despite my earlier gushing (which is almost a natural response to a TGW episode for me, I am hardly ever underwhelmed about it) the episode was not perfect. But I do believe it was one of the most densely packed episodes of the show. They got a lot done and sometimes it did seem a bit choppy. But I'm just glad that I have the unfolding of all these stories to look forward to.
What I didn't understand : What was Cary's motivation? He seems to be driven purely by his rivalry and bitterness towards Alicia. He's almost lost a sense of self. No matter how bruising his termination may have been, he shouldn't be letting it define who he is. Was he fighting to get Simmons sentenced because he truly believed he was guilty or because he just wanted to see Alicia lose? After watching the episode twice I'm still not sure how him having already interviewed the lady didn't lead him to believe that there was a possibility that the CO could have done it.
Maybe it'll take a few more times. There is just so much being said in every frame that it's hard to catch it all in one or two viewings.
Is Alicia completely disconnected with Peter's campaign? I thought there would be some repercussions of the video being leaked on Alicia. This is a very minor problem to me because there is a very good chance that it will come up, especially if Childs is responsible for it. And also because, judging from the preview of next week, Alicia's going to be more homeward bound. So they mixed it up a bit with her being in lawyer mode today. And she was busy enough. the case was high profile, they didn't get a minute's rest while preparing as new things kept dropping on them. So I understand her absence. I don't think Peter expects her to run the campaign along with him as before. Maybe make a few appearances over the weekend, but nothing more than that. And since she spent the a lot of time at the JAG offices, you could explain away the lack of gossip and fresh humiliation. I don't want Alicia to be just an appendage to Peter, and be there to react to the bombshells that have to inevitably fall on him during his campaign. Sure I would have loved to see an interaction between A/P about the video, but never at the cost of the awesome lawyer stuff she pulled today. This is not me complaining about anything, just asking for more. Frankly, I don't know what I would have cut to include such interaction. Can't think of anything so far.
I thought Zach had grown up. Guess I was wrong, but why don't the kids just talk to their parents. Didn't they see how hurt their mother was last time when she realized that they were hiding something from her. And what was up with Zach almost accusingly asking Eli if it was his mother who was responsible for him not being allowed to play a bigger part in the campaign? Maybe I misread that, but it sounded like he was annoyed with her, like she thought he was a kid while his dad recognized him for the mature adult he is
Another couple of gripes and then I'll get to what I liked (promise, don't want to bring everyone down). Was the military court device more of a ploy to get rid of any last traces of reality on the procedural aspect of the case, or does stuff like this actually happen? I understood and agreed with quite a few of the judges rulings but sometimes it seemed like she wanted to hang the guy, and fast. I don't want to say that maybe the value for life and death is less considering they're seeing people die everyday, far from home, in conditions far more brutal but that's what it came across to me. And this is a post for the Judes thread, but TGW smartly seems to write the judges' personalities to suit the story.
Last and definitely not the least, Eli. Oh Eli. He was fast becoming one of my favourite characters, and then had to go get schooled by a schoolgirl. At least he acknowledged it. But you've been having more than an off day, Eli. Stop smacking down Becca and pick someone your own size. Or have you, and it's her?

Now to the good stuff :
So Much Will!!
So Much Diane!! And them together!!
Diane and Kalinda Face off Against Will and Bond!!
And Will and Alicia are the team to beat apparently.
I guess, W/D are my favourite non couply pairing on the show. CB was sizzling in that scene after Will reneged on his promise. The grey area of TGW, their fights always embody that for me. I can't ever decide who was right, and whether there is a 'right' to speak of. I certainly saw both sides of that argument. And we're getting to know more about Will. Just a throw away line, but there was a lot of his father issues going around this ep. In the first scene, he's watching the desolate father of his client. In the end, even though the editing didn't let the scene focus on him, you can make out he was emotionally invested in the father son reunion. Alicia seemed to pick up on it too. If only Will and Cary had figured out they both had daddy issues, they'd have bonded over that if nothing else. I know it is too much to ask, since we're only going to see Alicia's family after a season, but can we have Will's dad on the show? I'll trade you a shirtless Josh scene for it, TGW
Diane is such a classy lady, I'm always in awe of her. "I'm suggesting that I want to be disabused of that notion". Why don't more people talk like that? Winning over Lou Dobbs with her finesse and convictions, even though for the opposite side, but also towards her job? Diane 1 Bond 0
And as for what Kalinda dug up, I think it's something innocuous, but may present itself to be anything but. Maybe even a trap laid by Bond and Blake? I'd love for that to be the scenario. I've been waiting for Kalinda to slip, get something wrong, and this would be the best opportunity. It's not just a case that can be forgotten in an episode, it's an integral part of the story and it won't go away anywhere. If she unwittingly walks into the trap/misreads a coincidence as something else and sets up a confrontation in the firm, that'd be great for the character and the story. Me? I didn't see any pre-existing connection between the two men from their interactions. Either Will is not aware of anything and Bond is playing him/everyone or Will and Bond are actors too good to be believable. And why the need for pretence during their chat in Bond's office if they thought no one was watching? I'd hate if the show goes there, it's become too soapy. I wonder if the 'Baltimore blood' line was more than just a shout out to JC now.
Speaking of, Will was pretty crazy in court. And I loved every minute of it. But the judge clearly was biased, they were doing their best and trying to catch up as fast as they could and yet she showed no signs of at least letting them put their best foot forward. I guess she was just angry about how easy they;ve had it so far. Will certainly didn't help her attitude with his initial missteps. Not getting up, trying to crack jokes about being in armed service, "6 o'clock???"
I could fill a post with my Will love in this episode but I'll take it over to the Will thread, this post is long enough.
I really did expect to see a lot more activity on the forum, though. Did the episode not capture the imagination??

[judemiranda]

I liked the episode. Loved the interaction between Will and Diane. I always love seeing their relationship though. And I want to know what Kalinda found out! I don't like cliffhangers!

I like how Blake gets under Kalinda's skin and how she was hurt that Alicia was using him and not her. But there was not enough Kalinda in the episode! And not enough Kalinda/Alicia interactions.

[amygardner]

i loved Will in that episode : josh charles never stops to amaze me

and i loved the storyline : derek/will/diane, so promising ... loved the trial story too

what i didn't like was the political scene at the beginning : i love Eli but am i the only who thought that the scene with Eli loosing his nerves was overacted ? almost ridiculous? (in the opposite to will he doesn't look good in action to me )

i also don't get how zach can be so naive with becca

[Lily_Marie]

Well, that was a good episode, not one of the best, but definately well above average. It was jam-packed and some stuff did get a little choppy, but that's fine with me, because I'm not really sure what they could have cut out either way, everything felt important. I guess I'll start with the stuff which perplexed me: Didn't the Chicago PD investigator on Randall's case do a background check on the guy? The marines should have been informed that he wasa suspect in the first place and the case should really have gone straight to millitary court. Mind you, then Will and Alicia wouldn't be on the case, so I guess that's reason enough to ignore the above.
Why doesn't cary seem mad at Will as well? Sure, Alicia was his competition. But Cary assumed she got the job because she was sleeping with Will, so shouldn't he be mad at him as well?
I understood why Grace wouldn't tell anyone as soon as the trackes approached her, and it's still up in the air as to whether she will be telling anyone (apart from Zack) about it, but Zack made no sense whatsoever today. You let the same girl that tweeted about you parents back into your house and on to our computer??? Anger as a motivation is fine, but it shouldn't make you do something stupid. There are going to be fireworks when Child's people manage to trace that to the florrick household! I don't trust Becca yet.
And one last thing, I'm still not getting Scott Porter's character. Also, nothing against the guy, but so far, he's the only recurring character who's acting, I feel, doesn't match up to the rest of the cast.
Now on to the good stuff!
Flustered Eli Gold was nice touch! And Alan Cummings knows how to do it without appearing cartoonish. On a shallow note, I like his office!
W/D fighting. I like that these two almost always have fights that have no real wrong or right to their solution. In this case,even though I'm leaning more on Will's side, I could see where Diane was coming from as well. It was a case of loyalty to your partner or loyalty to your firm and that can't be an easy choice. I do think that Derrick's playing them though. I do wonder what Kalinda found out though. I had a suspicion that these two may have met once, a long time ago, law school long, mock trial long (inter school, of course) and that it's something Will doesn't remember but Derrick does. It would also explain his fixation with Alicia (Derrick's). On the other hand, the next episode could also find Kalinda saying she had found nothing! Wouldn't that be a laugh.....for them not us.
And the case. If I was ever in trouble, I'd like Will to be my lawyer. He was good! So was Alicia, for that matter. When he passed got held in contempt and passed her the book, I was praying that she would get whatever he was trying to do (not that there was any doubt), because lawyers don't normally like getting themselves held in contempt. And I was reminded of why I like watching these two work together!
I've read a lot of views on the bias of the judge, but here are mine. Initiall she knew that they were civillian lawyers, who worked in the private sector and knew nothing about millitary law. I got the impression that she was irritated at that and she didn't think that they had the discipline or integrity for millitary law and that they're concern be about their client but about winning the case and the money (hence the denying of teleconferencing the witnesses). When landed himself in the brig, she changed her mind. At the end of the day, a lawyer's job is to do everything they can for their client, and Will went above that. Alicia's competence and following the rules helped (Will being cocky didn't).

And that's all I have to say for this thread. the rest of my thoughts go everywere else! Now I run off to read everyone else's posts!

[Det.Logan]

But how long do we have to wait before the firm looses a single case? you know, it was a problem last season now it's more than annoying. And it's so predictable, a stunt move by Will, Kalinda doing her things (what a waste of talent) and Alicia saving the day (an abused policy).

I'm really sad to say this needs to change and very soon.

[GoodWifeObsessed]

Originally Posted by Det.Logan (View Post) But how long do we have to wait before the firm looses a single case? you know, it was a problem last season now it's more than annoying. And it's so predictable, a stunt move by Will, Kalinda doing her things (what a waste of talent) and Alicia saving the day (an abused policy). I'm really sad to say this needs to change and very soon.

Thank god I'm not the only one that feels this way - While watching Double Jeopardy it really hit me!!

I'm starting to think the firm is populated by super hero's

Mind you they do occasionally get their clients to take deals with the SA office.
Still it would be refreshing to see Cary and Co. win one for a change.

Also in real life I would think it is almost the opposite of what they are portraying on the show. Statistically doesn't the Crown or State win more cases than the defence?

[Det.Logan]

We are not alone in this, I read more than one comments outside , even fan of Alicia.
I don't have statistics but according to Law and Order () the balance is pending in favour of the State. And I wonder how such a super-hero lawfirm can possibly have economic troubles since they always win

[GoodWifeObsessed]

Originally Posted by Det.Logan (View Post) We are not alone in this, I read more than one comments outside , even fan of Alicia. I don't have statistics but according to Law and Order () the balance is pending in favour of the State. And I wonder how such a super-hero lawfirm can possibly have economic troubles since they always win

LOL - I know you'd think that they would have clients lined up around the block willing to pay for there super hero powers

I LOVE the show but they really need to balance this glitch don't they!

[silver girl]

I don't care that they always win. Mainly because for me it's not that they always win, it's that they don't straight out lose. They know when to fold. For example, last week Alicia didn't win. Winning was never even considered a possibility- a deadlock was the plan. Then they took a deal. We saw them take deals last season as well on cases that they weren't sure they could win (Stern, Doubt and Sweeney are the first ones that come to mind). I think taking deals instead of going all the way to a verdict is actually the most realistic move. My understanding was always that the large majority of criminal cases are settled in plea deals because you can't really know what a jury is going to do and trials are very expensive. Even in this ep, W/A were willing to take a plea deal in the first trial, the SA's office refused. Then when it was brought up again the client refused. Cary and Will both said that they thought the reason W/A won the first trial was because of all the evidence Will got excluded. The biggest reason they were able to win the second was that when he had his JAG friend prosecute, Cary only considered the additional evidence she could get admitted. He didn't seem to count on all of the additional information like the fingerprints being accessible to them in military court where they weren't in state court. The additional evidence hurt them but the additional information equaled more available strategies in their defense including being able to introduce a viable alternative suspect.

As long as they keep settling with or at least talking about plea deals sometimes and when they do win, I can clearly see how it happened as I could in this ep, I don't care about evening the sides. The only interest I would have in them straight out losing would be to see how Alicia would handle it.

[Det.Logan]

It's not that I care or not, the fact is that it is not credible and annoying a great part of viewers and it's an abused weapon to make Alicia's good at the expense of the opposite side (and she is just a rookie, she need a mentor but she is so brilliant, better that Diane?). And loosing means also no money, struggle in term of strategy to apply, tension between partners not to mention some good glory for the SA too that after Peter left seems to be a bunch of idiots (and it cannot be true).

[tvdramafan]

The LG team always winning did not hit me until last night's show...they do have deals, but I think the formula is getting a bit repetitive... not great that so many of us are noticing.

And I guess "winning" is always problematic... Dylan Murray was brought back for a second go last season... they had gotten him off 1st go but alicia had suspected he was guilty ( and I think he admitted he was.)

Also it takes away from the drama if LG always pulls it out of the hat ... and how dumb can the State Att's office be?

[GoodWifeObsessed]

Originally Posted by Det.Logan (View Post) It's not that I care or not, the fact is that it is not credible and annoying a great part of viewers and it's an abused weapon to make Alicia's good at the expense of the opposite side (and she is just a rookie, she need a mentor but she is so brilliant, better that Diane?). And loosing means also no money, struggle in term of strategy to apply, tension between partners not to mention some good glory for the SA too that after Peter left seems to be a bunch of idiots (and it cannot be true).

The LG team always winning did not hit me until last night's show...they do have deals, but I think the formula is getting a bit repetitive... not great that so many of us are noticing. And I guess "winning" is always problematic... Dylan Murray was brought back for a second go last season... they had gotten him off 1st go but alicia had suspected he was guilty ( and I think he admitted he was.) Also it takes away from the drama if LG always pulls it out of the hat ... and how dumb can the State Att's office be?

Yup it sometimes seems as if The Keystone Cops have taken over the State's Attorneys Office

" Peter, the office called they need you back.... "

Not meaning to poke to much fun but I do hope they soon address this little problem.

[silver girl]

It's not that I care or not, the fact is that it is not credible and annoying a great part of viewers and it's an abused weapon to make Alicia's good at the expense of the opposite side (and she is just a rookie, she need a mentor but she is so brilliant, better that Diane?). And loosing means also no money, struggle in term of strategy to apply, tension between partners not to mention some good glory for the SA too that after Peter left seems to be a bunch of idiots (and it cannot be true).

A great part of viewers? I saw it mentioned in one of more than a dozen reviews I read and this is the only board I read talking about it much. I don't deny that it's annoying some people but that seems to be overstating the outcry a little. I disagree that it isn't credible for SLG to do well frequently. I also disagree that it's just being used to make Alicia look good at the expense of the opposite side. Will was the lead attorney this ep until very near the end and most of the cases last season had a partner in first chair. When was it ever even implied that Alicia was better than Diane? Since they said last season most of their money comes from divorces, all the partners have clients other than criminal, and I don't think they only get paid when they win anyway, they would have to lose a lot and very publicly for criminal court losses to affect their reputations enough to truly hurt their bottom line. Criminal court win/loss record is not why they were going under.

We don't really know what the SA's office was like when Peter was there. Peter himself said that he wasn't that great at the job, only okay and the office was apparently full of corruption and back-stabbing. And now we're only seeing their losses against a few attorneys at one firm. Their overall numbers are likely still good considering most of their cases would be against public defenders and lower level attorneys, not high dollar attorneys like SLG. Big firms only do so much pro bono work and most people can't afford a big firm attorney. Against big firm attorneys, the SA's office would realistically be outmatched for a lot of reasons beyond skill. Most big city SA/DA's offices are low paying, overworked, and understaffed. Other than a few exceptions among those with a passion for the work and those wanting to progress in public office, most of the really good attorneys go to work where they can make better money as soon as they can. Firms like SLG can also overpower them in hours invested in each case, people available and money to spend on winning. This is not all a question of skill as I think the show has shown more than once in their portrayals of the different offices.

[Det.Logan]

Originally Posted by tvdramafan (View Post) The LG team always winning did not hit me until last night's show...they do have deals, but I think the formula is getting a bit repetitive... not great that so many of us are noticing. Also it takes away from the drama if LG always pulls it out of the hat ... and how dumb can the State Att's office be?

We started noticing and complaining last year, around mid-season (add to the fact that the case were not always that interesting), after almost a year nothing has changed. Alicia is still this super-power-attorney always with a trick in her hat (I wonder why she need mentoring...?). I suppose it's a do-ut-des for all the crap in her life but I'd love her so much more when dealing whit a bad defeat, maybe with an innocent client. Not to mention that loosing is so much more dramatic than winning, especially against Cary for the reasons we know.
My only hope is to start seeing some changes, the Kings themself said it but they also said that the case would be more personal and that the time split would have been 60/40 but right now there are no traces of those things.

[witgit]

I'd want them to loose a leetle bit more but just for dramatic purposes. TO switch the dynamics up a bit and to make it a little less predictable. And also because I'm starting to get tired of Cary's constant glowering and petulance. I know it's been only two episodes, but still. But realistically they're one of the top firms in Chicago and the SA office is understaffed and underpaid, so it makes sense that they'd win more often than not. They're not getting paid the big bucks for nothing. And that specially applies to Will and Diane. If they loose 3-4 cases in a row, they'd be fighting for their reputations. Cary can win against Alicia but I'm tuning off is he manages to best Will or Diane in a case with remotely even merits. And I agree with silver_girl, the firm's job is to represent their clients best interests, so when they know they can't win they always advice them to take a plea. Not a victory for them, but still they served their client the best they could.