Annima

How? I'm not from the US, so I only see some of the most "hot" news and since a couple of weeks it's been mostly reports of sexual harassement. And Trump feeding fish. No idea why.

Gelfling

Well we started with Weinstein and multiple celebrities accounts of his abuse, sexual harassment and downright rape, and as soon as the discussion started to turn on how Hollywood could have known nothing about it or how they had just let him do it because he was a big money maker... somehow the media was distracted by a much sexier story: a gay celebrity's unwanted advances on various people.

And all this while Trump's campaign staff is being charged with multiple counts of election fraud. I'd say that's well directed misdirection.

Now instead of talking about the real issue, which is Hollywood's complacency with rapists and power abuse in high places, we're gorging on the much sexier (and way less important really) accounts of guys who have been groped by Spacey. So basically, instead of talking about how to stop the pattern of abuse in Hollywood, we're playing Gropemon Go with Kevin Spacey.


Why he's feeding fish or why the media is talking about it?
(I would say the answer to the first one is he identifies with their minuscule brains, and the answer to the other is the media mocks him for that?)

Full Throttle

I just don't understand why these women didn't come forward sooner. I'm not talking about the young and up and coming actresses, but rather the heavy hitters in Hollywood. So many are giving Ashley Judd credit for opening the flood gates, but why didn't she do it like 5 years ago (or more?). Is she starving for the spotlight right now? I'm not discrediting what these women are saying, but why now? If they came forward long ago, so many more could have been spared.

Some of this stuff has been known for so long. Look at Seth McFarland and his joke about Harvey at the (Oscars?). The Kevin Spacey stuff on the Family Guy back in what 2005?

Annima

I see, yeah that sounds like a convenient distraction. But it's pretty predictable, the "why didn't we stop them and how do we change that" conversation is much bigger, much more difficult and much much more uncomfortable. Hopefully, it'll still start soon.

Good luck with Trump, try to impeach him if that's possible, this a**hole deserves to land in jail.

Alwayshappy

I think it's easier to come forward when other people did it aswell. I think Rose McGowan and several others came forward first, but I'm with you: I don't know why that first group came forward now, but ok. I mean...it's good that they came forward (and I don't doubt them), but yeah, part of me also thinks they did it to get their names in the news.

Gelfling

and by the way, people like to point to Hollywood because these are big celebrities involved and it's sexy (and they're "liberals") but sexual harassment is a problem in every power structure where men are allowed to prey on their subordinates, male or female, so that means everywhere basically, including Washington btw...

I'd be happy just with him as far away from the nuclear codes as possible. I don't care if he goes back to reality tv or if he goes to jail, as long as he's not in the White House where he can distract people from his inaction and idiocy with attacks on Korea for example...

Fear of reprisal. They didn't have to be threatened to know their careers would be over if they talked. They knew they'd be labeled as "poison" and passed over by other studios.

What I don't get is why the men who knew this was happening and had no fear of retaliation didn't just say "no, we won't work with this guy as long as he is allowed to abuse the women we work with". Instead, they play the sympathy and support card once it's out, like Ben Affleck. Please.

She's speaking now because she's not afraid anymore. It's not because she wanted attention (that kind of attention doesn't give you parts), on the contrary. She's given up on Hollywood so she's free to speak out.

You say this as if there was a currency coming from being in the news. There really isn't. Coming forward accusing powerful men of abuse is not exactly the best way to turn public attention into parts and contracts. Unless maybe you want to get your reality tv show on Bravo and I don't think any of these women are going to be doing that any time soon.

Yeah that's exactly what I'm talking about. That guy was huge enough to get an Oscar gig and he makes "a joke" out of what he knows was serious abuse of someone he knows? Why didn't he go to the press and say "this is happening and I'm appalled and I won't work with people like that anymore"?
Also, not for nothing but isn't that also the night he made so many sexist jokes (and sang about actresses who had shown "their boobs"?) that the academy had to apologize the next day?
You can't participate in, and even promote, a culture where women are treated as object on the one hand, and then say Harvey Weinstein is garbage for using that same culture to get laid.

I still don't get how Kevin Spacey got folded into the Hollywood abuse news cycle. What he did, if the accounts are true (I suspect some are somewhat exaggerated), has nothing to do with him being a big time actor and everything to do with him being a gay man who was drinking too much and had no boundaries.

Alwayshappy

Yup. Agreed. Plus all the guys who also got assaulted, or raped. But hey, that doesn't count, because guys are strong, so they must have wanted it at some level!

Guys like that act like they aren't afraid, but in reality...they are (the Ben Affleck part).

You're right

Kevin Spacey angers me. Drinking too much isn't an excuse. What he did was even worse...he tried to play the gay card, in order to try to seek symphaty. In order to explain why he did what he did. I am gay and had issues coming out too. Didn't drive me ro assaulting, or rape..

Gelfling

Right?? It's like when I see all the comments that "if Weinstein was attractive, nobody would have complained"... Really?? Those people have a rather dim view of sexuality and consent. I hope for their sake that life never teaches them the difference between sex and rape.

And I get that but I wish they had admitted to that when the story exploded instead of pretending they had no idea. Support is not just a public statement once things have hit the fan.

I think he followed very bad advice from his agents who then proceeded to dump him when people took the statement for what it was: an attempt to deflect. But then, he was outed so he had to respond to that.

He didn't rape anyone. And again, regardless of how I feel about his actions, it was a convenient diversion from the real problem with Weinstein and all the people letting it happen. Most of the Spacey accusations happened a long time ago, under the influence of alcohol and had nothing to do with him using his Hollywood power to abuse and silence people.

Full Throttle

I'm really disappointed in Seth for not speaking up. He really had the power to do so.

Ben Affleck on the other hand, not surprising. I just never saw him as nothing more then a drunk, a gambler and wouldn't be surprised to hear about him in some fashion with women. Lets be honest his ex-wife married him and stuck by him for the fame and meal ticket.

Annima

On top of that, I think his brother was accused by several women of abuse, and Ben protects him to this day.

Gelfling

He definitely gives off a frat boy vibe, right? And as soon as he started commiserating on how terrible Weinstein was, people started talking about that time when he grabbed a morning show host's breasts while on live tv so.... yeah, Ben, it's terrible

Runs in the family. I remember there was talk about that when Casey won the Oscar last year. No commiserating with the victims from Ben then eh?

*ahem* bad mod, I got this thread completely OT

So old news but still news on JM

Julianna Margulies to make TV return in new AMC drama

Not sure how I feel about the Dude Network making that show but I liked the book and Marti Noxon is a kickass writer (if you haven't watched UnReal, run and watch it now) with a sensibility for interesting female characters so

Annima

A show about weight loss surrgery that's being opposed by a feminist terrorist organisation? Eeeeeeee

Full Throttle

Never seen UnReal but you should have mentioned another little show called Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Now that I've seen.

I do get AMC. Will have to remember to check it out.

Gelfling

I know, right? Sounds awesome

I've tried repeatedly but it's just not my thing. I prefer female writers when it comes to female led shows. And Marti Noxon didn't create Buffy (or it would have been less about romance and more about female characters standing up on their own), whereas UnReal, she did create. And you should check it out. It's brilliant, especially if you like/dislike "reality tv"

stlavin95

Yeah, I never really liked Ben and it sucks that what he did to Hilarie Burton took so long to get out. Must have been an bit awkward on the set of Batman vs Superman since she is married to Jeffrey Dean Morgan.
Good to see Julianna back on TV though.