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Old 09-05-2007, 04:30 PM
  #16
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Don't have time to explain 'cause class is starting soonish and my AC adapter for my laptop died so I'm technically on an internet hiatus until I get a new one, but I liked both EA and EM (I also enjoyed E/B and E/C and E/W, speaking from a slash standpoint, hee.)

ETA: I also like Ephram/Laynie. I at one time also enjoyed Ephram/Hannah.
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:19 AM
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I wouldn't have minded a little Ephram/Laynie, but I was never an Ephram/Hannah fan.
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:39 PM
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This is a very nice thread. So far, I love both and I love Sarah Lancaster.
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Old 11-24-2011, 10:18 PM
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I just read this whole thread and thought I'd post my comments, even if the discussion is quite old.

I didn't like E/M or the way it developed on the show. It was just such an obvious set-up from the very beginning; Delia gets a new hot babysitter whom Ephram clashes with...of course they're going to have a romantic storyline at some point in the season. I didn't feel that they had any real chemistry to build on, so the whole thing came across as too predictable and forced to me.

I also thought Madison's character was considerably annoying and inconsistent. Before she got together with Ephram, she treated him way too condescendingly and seemed to think it was all cute and witty and perfectly acceptable. Then when she actually started dating Ephram, she turned into a completely different character altogether...so serious, apparently too "mature" for Ephram, always looking concerned and confused... I guess it makes sense that she would start treating Ephram differently once they started dating, but neither of their dynamics appealed to me at all.

I also never bought the idea that Madison was really more mature than Ephram, hence the quotation marks around the word above. So what if she was into drinking and partying, in a band, all that jazz? Doesn't make her more mature in any way. And the problems that Ephram and Madison had could have been exactly the same if Madison had been his age, in fact. There are plenty of 16-year-olds who are into the kind of things Madison was into. To me, it seemed that the difference wasn't just that Ephram was younger, it was that he really wasn't into having that kind of lifestyle.

So I think the reason for their break-up should have been more accurately categorized as a difference in interests and the lifestyle they both chose for themselves, not colored as a difference that Ephram was simply unable to conquer over due to being underage. Anyone agree or disagree? Do you think that--if Ephram was Madison's age--he would have shared her interests and lifestyle enough to be compatible with her?

And also, do you guys think he would have even been interested in Madison if he was her age? Somehow I doubt it. She seemed like a typical 20-something girl, without much super unique or profound to offer, so I'm not sure Ephram would have been so intensely drawn to her if there wasn't the excitingly taboo age difference, the romantic idea of dating someone more experienced, et cetera.
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Old 11-24-2011, 11:29 PM
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Crazy to see this thread back up at the top again wow my last comment in here was over 4 years ago.....I was a senior in highschool. How so much has changed since then, but still an EM fan...that will never change. Yes E/A was endgame I knew that from the beginning but I enjoyed E/M while it lasted.

And Lemony, in my opinion they were similar and if they were the same age and had met differently I think it could have been a pretty stable relationship.(Again with EA out of picture of course) They were both passionate about their music and both VERY strong and independent....I always saw Madison WAY more alike to Ephram than Amy. But as the saying goes opposites attract, its not all about having the same likes and dislikes.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cowgirl08 (View Post)
Crazy to see this thread back up at the top again wow my last comment in here was over 4 years ago.....I was a senior in highschool. How so much has changed since then, but still an EM fan...that will never change. Yes E/A was endgame I knew that from the beginning but I enjoyed E/M while it lasted.

And Lemony, in my opinion they were similar and if they were the same age and had met differently I think it could have been a pretty stable relationship.(Again with EA out of picture of course) They were both passionate about their music and both VERY strong and independent....I always saw Madison WAY more alike to Ephram than Amy. But as the saying goes opposites attract, its not all about having the same likes and dislikes.
I agree with you. I loved Madison and Ephram and I love Sarah Lancaster as well. I cried when they broke up. I don't think age really matters. She wasn't that much older than him. I loved how they both loved music and how Ephram and Madison were trying to preserve their relationship. Yes it was hard, but I loved them together. Always will Also, Madison was an awesome babysitter. and I like how Ephram asked her to come back even if it was going to be professional and when he got that fake id to get into Madison's gig with the band. They will always be one of the couples I loved the most on this show.
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:12 PM
  #22
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I wasn't a Madison fan either, so I certainly don't find her mature either, Lemony. I don't think Ephram was all that mature either during this point, of course, so I never understood the "old soul" or thought it was very hard that Madison was more mature, heh. I also have to say that I don't really get how they got into a relationship. I mean, he did fire her at first, would pout and throw tantrums about her "orders" and would pout at going out with her and Delia. Yeah, sexy stuff, right? Heh. He was acting like a child, she was acting entitled...what did they ever see in each other? Once they started dating, I got it, but before...

I'm not sure that I would agree that he wouldn't be into her so much if she was his age, though. I don't think Ephram was attracted to the older thing at all. I don't remember him bringing it up, she seemed to bring it up more than anyone. I think he was so interested because she was so clearly into him and it gave him confidence and it was a new feeling for him to have someone so excited by him. Plus, she was hot, which helps.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:29 AM
  #23
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I talked about this in the Greenie thread, but I guess this is the best place to say it.

I liked both couples the same for very different reasons.

First of all Ephram needed to be in a relationship in Season 2. If he wasn't I would have ended up disliking Amy even more and I would be annoyed by Ephram and his pining over her. She didn't want to be with him, he needed to move on.

Next I don't mind how Ephram and Madison met each other. Ephram is not social butterfly, he can't find girl that easy. He's definitely the guy that would have to wait for the girl to end up at his door. So totally normal. And if he was with girl from school - it would be Ephram and Laynie 2. The girl would realize pretty quickly that he likes Amy and she would break up with him.

I didn't mind the age difference either. I don't think that the age difference is a problem unless the people in the relationship think that it's a problem. I can't date half of the men my age, because they like different things, think different and have different interests. So the most important thing is the two people to have something in common. Madison and Ephram had - music, which was cool. They were also different, but imo Amy and Ephram didn't even have music in common. They were different like the moon and the sun.

Madison did act a bit motherly with Ephram, but that's his problem - he seems like the kind of guy who needs mothering . At least she wasn't annoyingly pushing like Amy (that's one of the things that I disliked in the Greenies. Ephram had to put up with all the crap that Amy did). Madison and Ephram worked because Ephram was able to stop her and set boundaries - hence the hate at first. Ephram was able to tell Madison to not treat him in certain way. He however never did this with Amy (most probably because she was more stubborn and disrespectful), so in the end he had to do what Amy wants.

Also Madison didn't want to change Ephram - in fact the moment they realized that they have differences she let him go. Unlike Amy who likes to change her boyfriends (especially Colin and Ephram) to be like she expects them to be.

I agree that the story might have been better, but I don't dislike Madison anymore than Amy. There were certain things that I didn't like in Madison, but there were also ones that I didn't like in Amy. In fact since Amy was regular, she annoyed me more .
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:37 PM
  #24
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Quote:
I liked both couples the same for very different reasons
Yes, I did like them for different reasons as well.

I liked Madison as a diversion for Ephram...so that he wouldn't pine over Amy who wasn't ready for him yet.
But...I didn't want Madison for the long haul...he loved Amy..so I was very happy when they got together.


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Unlike Amy who likes to change her boyfriends (especially Colin and Ephram) to be like she expects them to be.
Please explain how Amy tried to change Ephram. I'm interested in your thoughts.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:04 PM
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Well just to let you guys know something - it's not like Amy was bad or mean or anything at all. But there are certain things that make me dislike people.

1. Someone who invades my privacy (seriously my inner world is my inner world, whoever tries to invade it without my permission would face my anger)
2. Someone who bombards me with their feelings - especially when I don't know them enough to call them friends and when I didn't ask them
3. Someone who tries to tell me that I should be more extrovert - now that's something that might piss me off. I respect when people want to be social active. I'm not. Don't try to change me.
4. Someone who lies to me or manipulates me - either talk to me and tell me what you want or don't talk to me at all
5. Someone who tells me what to do (not with the asking tone)
6. Someone who makes me lie for them
7. Someone who doesn't know what they want and play with my feelings. I'm confused enough by my feelings, there is no need for someone else to confuse me more

Now those 7 points are something that I wouldn't tolerate. If it's coming from someone that I know well I would be angry. If it's someone that I just met, they might be dead for me.

Amy wanted to change Ephram mostly in the beginning of Season 1 - when she told him that he has to have more friends. Mhm, first of all if someone that I know for 3 weeks tells me that, I would react the way Ephram did. No one tells me that without consequences. If she likes to have numerous friends, I don't. I choose my friends very carefully. Then she tells him that he should give her slack. Mhm, why he should? He knows her from 3 weeks, what would be his motivation? Oh yeah, because he likes her. To me back then it was attraction, not love. He just saw her and decided that she's sexy.

In Season 3 there was one Amy's comment - where she basically told him that he was her social project and he shouldn't be back to being so introvert like Hannah. When Ephram was in depression because of the whole Madison fiasco, she tried to tell him how he should react to the whole situation. Like she knows how he feels. She just had this idea of Ephram and how he should be, not how he is. She had the same problem with Colin too. Her imagination and fantasies are far from the reality. They didn't show scene where she asked him how he felt. It was like look 'I get that you're pissed, but you have to move on, because a whole week passed already and you're still not my loving boyfriend. So why don't you just forget how you feel and try to be with me, the way it used to be?' That's how it looked to me.

Amy tried to change Hannah too. She takes this projects and pushes people without their permission.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:05 AM
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First of all Ephram needed to be in a relationship in Season 2. If he wasn't I would have ended up disliking Amy even more and I would be annoyed by Ephram and his pining over her. She didn't want to be with him, he needed to move on.
Yup, I think that follows the Ephram needed to stop being the puppy dog after Amy and gain a little upper-hand that a few of us see too. It'll always be controversial, though, whether he truly needed that or not, but I do agree that Madison did him good in that sense.

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Amy wanted to change Ephram mostly in the beginning of Season 1 - when she told him that he has to have more friends. Mhm, first of all if someone that I know for 3 weeks tells me that, I would react the way Ephram did. No one tells me that without consequences. If she likes to have numerous friends, I don't. I choose my friends very carefully.
Hmm, good point. It's also interesting because Amy, even then, seems dissatisfied with her friends who make fun of him. Like, when they dis-invite him to the birthday party, she knows that they're acting assy, and I think she even says something about how they're not the best friends. And then when you look at what happens in S2, when she loses all her so called friends, or in S4 when she has trouble making friends. It's never been about quantity, but quality, and Amy knew that even in S1! But...I always say that the deer from "Deer God" was one of Ephram's best friends, so she had a point that he needed a friend. Still, it's interesting that she says this to Ephram knowing that she doesn't really have many--or any if you look at how her friendships progressed beyond the core group of Ephram, Bright and Hannah--true, quality friends at that point in her life. I think that's partly what draws her to Ephram: his honesty. She didn't have much of that going for her when it came to her friends.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:24 AM
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It's what I like in Ephram too - that guy was truly blunt and honest. I watched the other day, when he told Madison his real opinion about the band . Even Andy made a comment and he is oblivious.

For me the difference between Amy and Ephram is that Amy doesn't feel comfortable when she doesn't have enough interaction with people (even if they are not her best friends). Ephram doesn't care about that. Interactions with people that he doesn't like and parties drain him. I understand him, because I'm like that too.

For example Ephram didn't care at all that he couldn't find people in college. He has Bright, Hannah and Amy. Amy wanted more - she just feels better that way.

I'm not saying that he needed exactly that - kid in 17, it's never good, but he needed a relationship. And that's what they offered. If you ask me, I liked him with Stefanie. It was cool. He was himself, no pressure, no drama and she didn't care that he is weird, didn't push him, didn't try to change him. I don't know how long they could have lasted, but it was cool.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Koni
It's what I like in Ephram too - that guy was truly blunt and honest. I watched the other day, when he told Madison his real opinion about the band . Even Andy made a comment and he is oblivious.
I love that moment too.

Quote:
I'm not saying that he needed exactly that - kid in 17, it's never good, but he needed a relationship. And that's what they offered. If you ask me, I liked him with Stefanie. It was cool. He was himself, no pressure, no drama and she didn't care that he is weird, didn't push him, didn't try to change him. I don't know how long they could have lasted, but it was cool.
I don't think I liked them as much together as you, but the no pressure comment is spot on. It was nice to see Ephram happy, to see Ephram in a relationship without drama and where he could just enjoy himself. A glimpse to what Amy/Epharm would have been after the Ferris Wheel, I hope! What do you think? Do you think they could have a relationship like Ephram and Stephanie? More peaceful, less drama?
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:11 AM
  #29
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I'm not saying that they had chemistry - obviously Greg/Emily have more. But story wise, they were cool and good couple. Ephram needed something like this, even if it is for short time.

Actually since I just checked my analysis for Amy, I was able to spot some possible problems between her and Ephram and their relationship. No, I don't think that there will be less drama between Ephram and Amy, because both of them could be drama queens (for very different reasons though). See Amy is a bit control freak (she likes to push and control people and force them to do to stuff), something Ephram hates. Now if Ephram is able to stop her and try to balance her, they would work out good. If she tries too much, he might not be too happy. The other thing is that sometimes they think differently and perceive the world differently. I so laughed when Ephram tried to explain Amy why Hannah wouldn't like some Brian or something like that in Season 3. She couldn't understand it even after arguments. And she just perceived it all wrong - that he likes her. While he only meant that Hannah is different from Amy and she might like different types of boys. I personally see how Ephram would have to make some compromises and try to balance the situation, so that they don't break up.

The problem of course will be if Amy tries to push him too hard or not understand his willing to have alone time. Ephram is fairly patient, but if someone pushes his buttons, he might get angry and do something like going to Europe. We already saw that.

So I think that they would have problems, but if they were mature enough and both of them try to see the partner's point of view, the things might work out. There will be pressure though - the controlling issues of Amy just speaks pressure with bold font.

Then again I might be biased, because the only reason why I like Amy/Ephram pairing is because Ephram loves her. I think that Amy needs a lot of changing, so that I can consider her perfect match for Ephram.
And Madison was a phase for him. So yeah I like both couples, but it's not like I think that both partners were very good matches for Ephram.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:01 AM
  #30
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Interesting thoughts! Do you feel that Stephanie was the best personality match for Ephram? Or was it Amy despite her trying to change Ephram? Or what kind of girl do you think would be the best match for him?
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