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Old 12-05-2007, 05:54 PM
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What pairings on the show did you like? Dislike?

I'm sure this question has been asked in many forms on numerous different threads but given that we have a few newbies that have recently graced our board, I wanted to ask this again.

So who did you like for romantic pairings? Dislike?

For me:

Liked:

- Ephram/Amy: I wanted them together since The Pilot.

- Andy/Nina: I wanted them together since The Pilot.

- Harold/Rose: Always liked.

- Edna/Irv: Always liked.

- Ephram/Laynie: I didn't mind them while Amy was still unavailable but overall I liked Ephram/Laynie mainly for how jealous Amy got while seeing them ice skating on their date. LOL. I did love Laynie, though.

- Bright/Hannah: Flashes of this pairing I liked. I would never say I totally shipped them, though. But I liked them the most in the end, ironically. I liked their ending.

Indifferent:

- Amy/Tommy: I knew they were never lasting and it made sense to me why Amy was with him at the time given her depression.

- Nina/Jake: I knew they weren't lasting either and Nina would end up with Andy even if it took annoyingly a very long time for this to take place. LOL.

- Ephram/Stephanie and Amy/Reid : Hardly even considered pairings but I was indifferent all the same since it was inevitable Ephram/Amy were getting back together eventually so I was hardly bothered by either of these two.

Disliked:

- Colin/Amy: Didn't like Colin, thus I could never like these two.

- Ephram/Madison: No explanation needed or else I'll be here for hours and hours.

- Andy/Amanda: Horrible.

What about everyone else?

Last edited by Auror; 12-05-2007 at 08:01 PM
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Old 12-05-2007, 06:58 PM
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Liked:

Ephram/Amy: Also wanted them together since the pilot and that never stopped. I loved the journey, and watching the two of them together was just really special stuff.

Andy/Nina: Also wanted them together from the pilot. Really enjoyed their shift from neighbors, to friends, to more. Another fantastic journey.

Harold/Rose: How can you not like them? The most stable, consistent, lovely relationship. This was the kind of marriage I see Andy/Nina having when they get older.

Ephram/Laynie: They were cute together. Fun banter, but just not meant to be. I wish Laynie stuck around. That was a rare misstep from the show.

Bright/Hannah: Mainly the journey to them getting together and for Bright to realize this great girl. Once they got together, though, it was obvious the show didn't really know what to do with them. Unfortunately. The journey was awesome, though.

Colin/Amy: I liked the tragedy of this, the maturity and devotion by Amy to stick around despite the coma, despite Evil Colin showing up, despite things collapsing. I really liked the backstory of a first love, and I really liked what they had before Evil Colin, and "Home" is one of my favourite episodes because you see that hint of what they were before the coma, the beginning of love and it's just so romantically tragic. I don't think I could have watched it anymore than half a season, it was perfect for the story the show had to tell. First love and then tragedy. It's mainly the backstory and "Home" that does it for me. Their exchanges in that episode ("I want to hold on to you, Colin", "you're just a jerk") are some of my most memorable moments in the series and some of the best written exchanges on the show. There's my mini-justification/defense.

Nina/Jake: I thought he was a good guy for Nina. Especially after Carl. Ass. I knew it was temporary, just like Colin/Amy, but I thought they gelled somewhat, although you could see they weren't quite made for each other and that Andy was better for Nina. Even Jake could see it.

Indifferent:

Agreed with Ephram/Stephanie and Amy/Reid. Barely even there.

Dislike:

Amy/Tommy
: I didn't like Tommy. His eyebrows were too big and he was a jerk. Uh, that's all I have to say about this one.

Ephram/Madison: It took the show to a place I never wanted the show to go. Teen drama. I just didn't like them at all. Not once. Almost made me stop watching, and thank goodness I didn't.

Andy/Amanda
: Ugh. Almost killed the Dr. Brown character. Just totally repulsive stuff. Not even compelling or interesting, just awful. I've never understood the point of this one at all.
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:45 PM
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Love your answers, Tos.

I totally forgot about Andy/Amanda, thanks for reminding me of how much I completely loathed these two.

I especially like and appreciate your thoughts on Amy/Colin. Gives me a new perspective since what you say makes complete and total sense. I think I view them with my bias of not particularly caring for Colin straight up so with that being said, I miss out on what the true meaning of these two was all about. Probably the case. Maybe I could get them at the very least, in my indifferent category sometime in the future whenever thinking about your valid reasoning while watching again. LOL.

Oh and Tommy's eyebrows being too big, OMG so hilarious.

Last edited by Auror; 12-05-2007 at 07:57 PM
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:17 PM
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For Colin/Amy, I think a lot of it has to do with do you think they really were in love, or was it just a first crush type thing. I remember this was discussed on here before and from what I remember, the people that don't seem to be fans of the couple thought that Amy had a crush on Colin, and those that liked them, thought they really were in love, or at least the beginning stages of love. That might also explain things. It's a big distinction, and I can definitely see why people who think they were just have a crush relationship wouldn't feel as strongly about the two of them together as those that thought they really were in love. And I really like that the show didn't spell things out in that regard, they didn't come right out and say Amy loved Colin or if it was some idealistic romantic feeling, they let the fans figure it out for themselves either way.

Also forgot to mention that this is a great thread idea.
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:51 PM
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Hey LOVE the thread!

I haven't posted much in this board, not because I didn't want to, but because I don't get to watch Everwood as much as I'd like

Anyway, today I was watching the episode when Irv and Edna get married and Nina and Andy are trying to talk but they end up fighting, and she chooses Jake, ugh it was cool to see Andy talking to Harold and Nina talking to Edna, how they both didn't know what to do about each other after the kiss. I felt so sad when she said that what they felt for each other wasn't love and that she wanted to be friends again, aw, the look on his face, you could see his heart break Anyway, I think I'm kind of a masochist, cause the more I see a couple suffer, the more I ship them

It's SO late here, so I'm going to bed, but I'll be here tomorrow to write my thoughts on the other couples
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post)
For Colin/Amy, I think a lot of it has to do with do you think they really were in love, or was it just a first crush type thing. I remember this was discussed on here before and from what I remember, the people that don't seem to be fans of the couple thought that Amy had a crush on Colin, and those that liked them, thought they really were in love, or at least the beginning stages of love. That might also explain things. It's a big distinction, and I can definitely see why people who think they were just have a crush relationship wouldn't feel as strongly about the two of them together as those that thought they really were in love. And I really like that the show didn't spell things out in that regard, they didn't come right out and say Amy loved Colin or if it was some idealistic romantic feeling, they let the fans figure it out for themselves either way.

Also forgot to mention that this is a great thread idea.
Thanks.

That's an incredibly awesome observation, Tos. I bet you can immediately come up with what group I belong to?

And such a good point regarding the ambiguity. Absolutely.

In my mind, how I saw it, which could be entirely off, of course, is that Amy was in love with wanting to be in love, so she assumed what she felt for Colin was romantic love. She loved the idea of love, assumed it was all totally in place in her perfect world... the beautiful, popular girl falling in love with the good looking popular jock boy that everyone adored. She thought it was all set up in her little bubble of a world, one that existed more in her mind than actual reality. And what Berlanti was trying to explain was that Amy thought she was living in reality, experiencing the realness of what true love felt like, but she was completely brought to her knees, shocked, jolted whenever she met Ephram because EPHRAM was reality, he was real, he was the real thing, what she was experiencing with Ephram was true love in every sense of the word.

I felt like Berlanti wanted to make this distinction and the reason why Amy was running from Ephram throughout most of season 1 is because he shook her out of her fantasy world of thinking she was meant to be with Colin. Ephram = realness, Amy knew it and it scared her, it turned her world way upside down before she felt entirely happy with it.

Those are my thoughts, probably completely insane but that's how I always saw it. I bet we all view it in a different way, though. That's the beauty of Everwood.

Last edited by Auror; 12-06-2007 at 12:06 PM
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:32 PM
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Not insane at all, Michelle . I really like that. I can definitely see it, how that played out. Especially since Ephram is realness. Wow, great thoughts! Honestly, never thought of it that way and I can totally see how it makes sense, and it totally does. It also adds a totally new dimension to Ephram/Amy that I never saw, which, wow, that's really awesome. I always thought of it as Ephram waiting for Amy kind of thing (not the best explanation for it). But him being shocked by this unique, small-town girl for much of season one, but then there's Amy's side too that I didn't see quite as much or as deep as that and, wow, that's really cool. Never ever thought of it that way, but I really really like that element Definitely adds to their wonderful history together.

I've always taken it that Amy really did love Colin. I don't really know why, really, now that I think about it. There's not one scene or anything. I think it's just the way the story played out for me. "Home", a lot of it, I really see that she loves him. The talk they have when they're at the baseball diamond, and the looks she gives him and just the sense of that day in "Home" that they have together. I think it's the one peak I get at what they really could have been. I don't think I'd feel the same way about them if "Home" didn't exist, though.

What did you think of "Home"? Hopefully this doesn't come off as bad or attacking your point of view because totally not meaning to, just wondering about a perspective from another point of view because I've never gotten a chance to before (before I came here, I honestly didn't know anyone that didn't like Colin or Colin/Amy and so it's really fascinating to see these different perspectives now and be able to look at the relationships and the show again through different eyes and see more varied perspectives than the one I was used to) and I really liked the point of view of Colin being this fantasy and Ephram being reality.

But, yeah, long-winded explanation aside (as always) I just don't know how much I would see it as probably my favourite, or tied with "Goodbye, Love", episode of the series if I didn't see that connection and I was sitting here trying to think of what the episode would look like without that element to it. Hopefully that makes some sense, but to me, there's that Andy/Ephram aspect, and then there's Colin's goodbye, and a big chunk of that is his special goodbye to Amy and her reaction to it, and, just curious what your sense of that goodbye to her was like and their aspect of the episode.

Okay, I'm totally paranoid that that comes off as me sounding like I'm disagreeing with your view, so just clarifying that I'm really curious more than anything and interested in this other perspective, because this is really fascinating to me, in a good way.
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:26 PM
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No not at all, I love discussing this.

See there were a couple moments that led me to believe Amy didn't love Colin in the true love way. I always thought she loved him, just not the "in love" kind of way that's so deep and completely true. I do buy the first love concept, definitely. But in a more innocent kind of way if that makes sense. Maybe it's my EA bias LOL but I never thought Amy/Colin had a deep romantic love together, a first crush, first love with more of an innocent flavor to it? Yes. I'll buy that.

"Vegetative State"

Quote:
AMY: ... I built my whole life around memories of us and... He can't even remember my name.

[She's on the verge of tears.]

EPHRAM: Hey, my dad said it just takes a while. I mean, he'll remember eventually. You've just gotta stick it out.

AMY: It's been six months, Ephram. When do I run out? When do I just give up?

EPHRAM: You don't. That's what devotion is, Amy. I mean, I thought you loved him? That's all I've heard about for the last, I don't know, forever. And what, the first day, you just wanna throw in the towel? The truth is, you couldn't give up on him right now, even if you wanted to. Because since the day I met you, you've been loyal to Colin. And when you're loyal to someone, you can't help it.

AMY: How come you're so smart?

EPHRAM: I'm not, believe me. If I was, I would be wearing a warmer jacket right now. And I wouldn't be telling you to go back to your boyfriend.

AMY: Ephram.

EPRHAM: I-I wish it were different. I do. I wish I were here first but, I wasn't. The truth is, he needs you. He needs your help to get better.

AMY: I guess I should probably get back there, shouldn't I?

EPHRAM: Yeah, yeah. Definitely.

AMY: You wanna come with me?

EPHRAM: I don't think so.

AMY: OK.


"Home"

Quote:
EPHRAM: Do you want me to wait with you?

COLIN: Yeah, sure.

[They just stand there and look at each other for a second. Both unsure of what to say.]

COLIN: OK. You don't have to wait if you don't want to.

EPHRAM: I just, you know, feel like...

COLIN: I know how you feel, believe me. I think I'll just wait by myself.


"Do or Die"

Quote:
AMY: You know, Ephram, what we were talking about earlier. I did love Colin and so I couldn’t feel that way about you.

EPHRAM: Yeah, I know.

AMY: But it doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t have.

EPHRAM: No, I-I Get it.

AMY: No, wha-what I mean is.


In the "Vegetative State" scene it's quite clear Amy is begging Ephram to say the word because she wants to be with him romantically. That was very obvious to me. She wanted that so very much but it was selfless Ephram who told her they couldn't go there since she had to be loyal to Colin, there wasn't any question her loyalty had to exist with helping Colin no matter how much she wanted to be with Ephram. That, to me, was saying Amy was going back to Colin because of an obligation and due to their history, she had to stick by him.

Also, in my mind if she felt a deep, romantic love for Colin there was no way she would have fallen for Ephram like she did and wanted to be with him so strongly. Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic but I truly believe you can't have true love for someone then fall in love with another in a true love kind of way as well at the same time, I don't think it works that way. I just feel like if you find true love with someone there isn't room in your heart for having a true love with anyone else as well at the same time. Not in a completely true kind of way. It could be the hopeless romantic in me but that's how I feel. It goes back to whenever someone cheats in a relationship and you always hear the comments of, "There's no way he/she could have loved their significant other if they cheated on them." Well I know it's not that simple yet in a way I feel sometimes that it is on some level.

So in my mind if she had true love with Colin she would have never fallen for Ephram like she did. Maybe I'm just way too EA biased here and this instigates why I feel this way or in general I'm way too much of a naive hopeless romantic but I don't believe your heart allows you to do so. Not if it's true love. I could be so entirely wrong, though. LOL. It might be more of a belief within me and why my significant other knows I would NEVER, EVER cheat in a million years. An airplane coming down and crushing my house in two is way more likely or dogs suddenly starting to talk and communicating like humans do will take place before I ever cheat, put it that way.

Ephram's line in that scene about wishing it were different is very important in my mind as well. It shows he gets the fact that Amy wants to be with him, but it can't happen. The timing isn't right, she has to be loyal to Colin and help him through the trying time. No question. But it speaks volumes that all Amy wanted to do at that very moment was just be with Ephram, she craved it, wanted it so very badly. Proves her heart was beating all kinds of feelings for Ephram.

Ok the next scene between Colin and Ephram in "Home" is very important and one that makes me convinced Ephram is the one Amy truly loves and more importantly, Colin knows it. See I think Colin knew Amy was falling in love with Ephram way back in "My Funny Valentine" whenever he confronted her jealous behavior while ice skating and a few other instances like after Colin was mean at the prom and Amy danced with Ephram. Their convo in Colin's bedroom was quite telling.

But in this last scene between Ephram/Colin, whenever Colin said the words to Ephram, "I know how you feel" and the big time look exchanged between the two, this might sound depressing but I interpreted that scene as significant in that I felt deep down Colin had a clue he wasn't surviving the surgery, I don't know why I felt this but I did. Especially his scene with his father, even his scene with Amy on the baseball diamond. I really felt like Colin knew he wasn't going to live and his comments to Ephram, their look at each other, was almost a way of saying, "I know you love Amy and she loves you and it's ok, take care of her, you're a good guy, Ephram." That's totally how I saw that scene. Colin making peace with Ephram, allowing Ephram to understand that he was ok with what had been going on between him and Amy this entire time, which was entirely real. That was the one scene where I really felt for Colin and liked his words and non verbal communication because I feel it expressed so very much and in such an intelligent, honest, selfless way.

The last scene in "Do or Die" I thought was huge because Amy was saying she couldn't allow herself to go there with Ephram at that time. Her saying that it didn't mean she wouldn't have, I thought, proves that what she was really saying is, "She would have" had the circumstances been different and the timing was right, they weren't so she blocked it from happening.

Also, overall "Home" to me with regards to Amy/Colin was about deep caring and an appreciation and celebration of their relationship. A "salute" if you will. There's no doubt whatsoever these two cared tremendously for each other. And I do believe Amy loved him on some level, just not the "in love, true love" kind of way. I don't think she ever experienced that real love until Ephram.

I could be totally off but that's how I see it. Or maybe what my mind only wants me to see.

Last edited by Auror; 12-16-2007 at 05:50 PM
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:48 AM
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Nice idea Michelle

Liked:

- Ephram/Amy: I wanted them together sinche The Pilot.

- Andy/Nina: I wanted them together since The Pilot.

- Harold/Rose

- Edna/Irv

- Bright/Hannah: I wasn't a total shipper of them, but I did love their interaction in season 3 and towards the end of season4.

Indifferent:

- Ephram/Laynie: I liked Laynie and I liked to see Amy jealous, but that's about it.

- Nina/Jake: I wasn't rooting for them, but I came to accept them. Though I was pretty annoyed at the writers for wasting so much time on showing they weren't meant to be together, when they could've worked on the Andy/Nina reunion a little bit sooner and in a better way.

- Ephram/Stephanie and Amy/Reid: yawn

- Ephram/Madison: I never hated them, I could actually appreciate some aspects of their relationship, I just never felt about them the way I felt and feel for E/A. Their relationship felt too one-sided I guess.

- Colin/Amy: I didn't like Colin very much, especially towards the end, but I always felt for him given his medical situation and his childhood connection with Amy was beautiful on a certain level.

Disliked:

- Amy/Tommy: Given Amy's depression I could see why she dated him, but I always felt like their relatioship was majorly unhealthy.

- Andy/Amanda: Immoral.


Quote:
In my mind, how I saw it, which could be entirely off, of course, is that Amy was in love with wanting to be in love, so she assumed what she felt for Colin was romantic love. She loved the idea of love, assumed it was all totally in place in her perfect world... the beautiful, popular girl falling in love with the good looking popular jock boy that everyone adored. She thought it was all set up in her little bubble of a world, one that existed more in her mind than actual reality. And what Berlanti was trying to explain was that Amy thought she was living in reality, experiencing the realness of what true love felt like, but she was completely brought to her knees, shocked, jolted whenever she met Ephram because EPHRAM was reality, he was real, he was the real thing, what she was experiencing with Ephram was true love in every sense of the word.

I felt like Berlanti wanted to make this distinction and the reason why Amy was running from Ephram throughout most of season 1 is because he shook her out of her fantasy world of thinking she was meant to be with Colin. Ephram = realness, Amy knew it and it scared her, it turned her world way upside down before she felt entirely happy with it.
I completely agree.




Quote:
Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic but I truly believe you can't have true love for someone then fall in love with another in a true love kind of way as well at the same time, I don't think it works that way. I just feel like if you find true love with someone there isn't room in your heart for having a true love with anyone else as well at the same time. Not in a completely true kind of way. It could be the hopeless romantic in me but that's how I feel.
Then call me hopeless romantic 'cause I see it the exact same way.
There are different kinds of love in this world.
We can love a moltitude of people, but we'll love each person in a unique and different way. Amy loved both Colin and Ephram, just in two very different way.
Being in love and wanting to be in love with someone are 2 very different things. When you're young and wihtout experience it's easy to get yourself confused over your inner feelings, but once you discover that kind of love, there's no coming back. It shakes your world, it changes you deeply and permanently. That's what happened with Ephram and Amy.
I do think that Amy loved Colin in an innocent, childish kind of way, that at one point in time she thought he was the perfect match for her and they were meant to be or whatever, but once Ephram came into her life that belief was shaken and it wouldn't have been if she had been that in love with Colin.
Being Amy the stubborn and devoted person that she was/is, she couldn't allow herself to deal with the reality in front of her. With the change. It was too scary.. it would've destroyed her perfect fantasy and letting go of our childish dreams can be really hard to do at times. No matter how much better could be the reality in front of us. It's still scary.
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:48 AM
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I'll only talk about the pairings I like the most.

Amy-Ephram : The most interesting couple in Everwood and the most interesting teenage couple on television. Their relationship from 1x01 to 4x21, 22 is so well built and delivered. One of this tv shows couple who is so meant to be !

Andy-Nina: Very interesting journey too for them even if it was a little more classical than between Amy and Ephram.

Hannah-Bright : I like their journey from point 0 to their relationship very much. Their breakup was as much predictible as a little lame; but the finale let's some hope for them.

Harold-Rose : Solid but not annoying couple, even sweet in their own way.

Edna-Irv : Idem.
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lor-baby (View Post)
Nice idea Michelle
Hey Barbara!! Awe, so great to see you over here!

I was lurking on the Dawsons Creek, Dawson/Joey thread and saw you over there, thought about how much I missed talking to you and bam a couple days later my eyes light up because you show up here! I'm very happy to say the least!

Quote:
- Bright/Hannah: I wasn't a total shipper of them, but I did love their interaction in season 3 and towards the end of season4.
Me too. Whenever Bright cheated I was so annoyed but the way they handled the storyline after that was very well done. I really appreciated Bright's transformation, essentially having to lose it all in order to gain everything, and Hannah not backing down, finally gaining independence, going on a journey of her own until the very end whenever their ending strongly hinted they were eventually getting back together. Before then I always saw Bright as one step forward with Hannah two steps back. But whenever the turmoil in their relationship took place with Bright's cheating, it's like for them it made their relationship even stronger (which is a rarity in itself) since they both became better people as a result and seemed to be more than ready for each other at the end of the series.

Quote:
- Ephram/Laynie: I liked Laynie and I liked to see Amy jealous, but that's about it.
Totally how I feel as well. My guess is if these two would have continued on I probably would have started to dislike the pairing. I like the purpose this pairing served, it was perfect.

Quote:
- Nina/Jake: I wasn't rooting for them, but I came to accept them. Though I was pretty annoyed at the writers for wasting so much time on showing they weren't meant to be together, when they could've worked on the Andy/Nina reunion a little bit sooner and in a better way.
Thank you! Soooooo much time was wasted. The extensive time would have made sense had Nina/Jake gotten the happy ending but that was never where they were going. It was always going to be Andy/Nina so it was quite lame how much time they spent on Nina/Jake.

I think what happened here was the result of the CWs bogus decisionn not to take Everwood. My guess is they planned on delaying Andy/Nina since they thought season 5 was going to be all about Andy/Nina so they had time in season 4 to let us see them get together right at the very end of the season THEN we could SEE their romantic relationship front and center in season 5. Whenever it became apparent the show was ending after season 4, there wasn't enough time so they needed to do what they did, which sucks, but hey, at least the meant to be pairing happened in the end. Thank God. Unlike what transpired on Dawson's Creek.

Quote:
- Ephram/Stephanie and Amy/Reid: yawn


Quote:
- Andy/Amanda: Immoral.
Sometimes I wonder what the purpose of throwing together these two was, making all of us sick to our stomachs? Seriously, what was the point? Makes absolutely no sense. Unless they wanted us having issues with Andy way early on in the season so that once Madisongate exploded, we would dislike him all the more? Not that everyone did but maybe they just wanted to show him as very screwed up and "off" during this time period. I remember Treat Williams, himself, in an interview stated how much he even disliked Andy in season 3.

Quote:
Then call me hopeless romantic 'cause I see it the exact same way.
There are different kinds of love in this world.
We can love a moltitude of people, but we'll love each person in a unique and different way. Amy loved both Colin and Ephram, just in two very different way.
Precisely the case!

Quote:
Being in love and wanting to be in love with someone are 2 very different things. When you're young and wihtout experience it's easy to get yourself confused over your inner feelings, but once you discover that kind of love, there's no coming back. It shakes your world, it changes you deeply and permanently. That's what happened with Ephram and Amy.
I do think that Amy loved Colin in an innocent, childish kind of way, that at one point in time she thought he was the perfect match for her and they were meant to be or whatever, but once Ephram came into her life that belief was shaken and it wouldn't have been if she had been that in love with Colin.
Being Amy the stubborn and devoted person that she was/is, she couldn't allow herself to deal with the reality in front of her. With the change. It was too scary.. it would've destroyed her perfect fantasy and letting go of our childish dreams can be really hard to do at times. No matter how much better could be the reality in front of us. It's still scary.
Wow. You hit this square on. Way better than I could ever explain it. Seriously, *points to Barbara's words* that's exactly how I feel about it! Perfect summation. Honest to God those are my feelings right there, from what transpired between Amy/Colin whenever they were so young, to Amy's thoughts about it, what happened to her once she met Ephram and everything changed, how her stubborness kept her devotion and loyalty to Colin at full force but it didn't change what had transpired between her and Ephram. But Amy had to push it away, not allowing it to distract her since that would destroy the childhood fantasy and she had to go with her loyalty to Colin. Had to. It was way too scary for Amy to burst her bubble and deal with reality, much easier for Amy to remain in that "safe world" she created for herself. And like you said even if reality was way better than that very world she created for herself, it was still too difficult for Amy to face it during this time period. But once she did, boy did she ever finally become truly happy... with Ephram.

I even remember during that flashback scene before Colin and Bright get into the accident how miserable Amy was while her and Colin were fighting. That was teen angst at its finest. And even though they weren't always fighting in that manner, I DO think it's significant Berlanti showed them having an argument before Colin ultimately goes "to his death" IMO. I think it was Berlanti's way of demonstrating that Amy wasn't truly happy with the relationship, her "perfect image" of how their relationship should be was already starting to shatter in her mind, let alone the fact Berlanti wanted to show the massive, confident, "not meant to be" tag in big neon letters to his audience. I thought it spoke volumes.

Did I mention how glad I am to see you on the board, Barbara?

Last edited by Auror; 12-19-2007 at 06:30 PM
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Old 12-18-2007, 01:30 AM
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Hey Barbara!! Awe, so great to see you over here!
I was lurking on the Dawsons Creek, Dawson/Joey thread and saw you over there, thought about how much I missed talking to you and bam a couple days later my eyes light up because you show up here! I'm very happy to say the least!
Hey Michelle
I missed talking to you as well.
I haven’t posted a lot around the forum lately. I always lurk, but I’m way too lazy to go further than that
I sometimes post over the DC and GG board though.
For old times’ sake I guess.
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But whenever the turmoil in their relationship took place with Bright's cheating, it's like for them it made their relationship even stronger (which is a rarity in itself) since they both became better people as a result and seemed to be more than ready for each other at the end of the series.
That’s something I really liked about the whole Hannah/Bright debacle.
For once in television’s history the cheating storyline was well handled by the writers.
It wasn’t something that destroyed the couple for good, but it wasn’t something that got magically forgotten along the way either.
It brought us some realistic drama and some major characters’ growth which was needed considering the lack of communication and sync between Hannah&Bright.
The finale was open-ended for them, but it didn’t feel like a bone tossed to their fans nor to their haters.
It felt realistic. They weren’t rushed back together, but you could feel that they were headed in that direction and would get there eventually when they’re ready.
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The extensive time would have made sense had Nina/Jake gotten the happy ending but that was never where they were going. It was always going to be Andy/Nina so it was quite lame how much time they spent on Nina/Jake.
Exactly.
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I think what happened here was the result of the CWs bogus decisionn not to take Everwood. My guess is they planned on delaying Andy/Nina since they thought season 5 was going to be all about Andy/Nina so they had time in season 4 to let us see them get together right at the very end of the season THEN we could SEE their romantic relationship front and center in season 5. Whenever it became apparent the show was ending after season 4, there wasn't enough time so they needed to do what they did
That’s probably what happened. I guess that what bothers me so much is the way they handled the whole thing in the series finale.
I thought the writers had done a decent job in getting Nina closer to Andy and further apart from Jake up until that episode. Especially considering the lack of time left. You could see the build up, but then in ‘Foreverwood’ she follows Jake despite her own feelings and needs to be pushed in the right direction by him. That was lame. Nina’s smarter than that. Or at least I thought she was.
I also didn’t like the fact that they had her saying that she was in love with the both of them. I mean, who’s she? Josephine Potter?
Not that I actually believe that you can be in love with two people at once, and to me Nina’s actions spoke louder than words, but it still bothered me.
Plus, as much as I love Andy&Nina, I found the proposal to be rushed. I mean these two hadn’t even dated and yet they were getting married. Don’t get me wrong I was happy for them and Andy’s speech had me in tears, but still..
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at least the meant to be pairing happened in the end. Thank God. Unlike what transpired on Dawson's Creek.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. After having to endure the joke that was the Dawson’s Creek series finale, everything we get is like gold in comparison
I was talking exactly about that to someone else a while ago . We were discussing the Gilmore Girls series finale, the fact that some aspects of the show hadn’t really gotten the deserved closure and then the DC subject came up and everything looked brighter. Pure magic
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Sometimes I wonder what the purpose of throwing together these two was, making all of us sick to our stomachs? Seriously, what was the point? Makes absolutely no sense. Unless they wanted us having issues with Andy way early on in the season so that once Madisongate exploded, we would dislike him all the more? Not that everyone did but maybe they just wanted to show him as very screwed up and "off" during this time period. I remember Treat Williams, himself, in an interview stated how much he even disliked Andy in season 3.
Andy was deslikable for the most of season 3 and I say this as an Andy’s fan.
Maybe the writers wanted him to reach the bottom in order for him to learn from his mistakes and become, once and for all, a better person. I guess they thought it was the most dramatic and interesting way to bring him to a consistent character’s growth.. and it was interesting to a certain extent, but.. I just whish they had spared us that sickening affair with Amanda.
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I even remember during that flashback scene before Colin and Bright get into the accident how miserable Amy was while her and Colin were fighting. That was teen angst at its finest. And even though they weren't always fighting in that manner, I DO think it's significant Berlanti showed them having an argument before Colin ultimately goes "to his death" IMO. I think it was Berlanti's way of demonstrating that Amy wasn't truly happy with the relationship, her "perfect image" of how their relationship should be was already starting to shatter in her mind, let alone the fact Berlanti wanted to show the massive, confident, "not meant to be" tag in big neon letters to his audience. I thought it spoke volumes.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Before the accident Colin wasn’t even really into Amy. He came to ‘love’ her only later on, after having her always by his side, after getting to know her once again. If that was not a sign that showed us that they were “not meant to be” I don’t know what it was.
I do not doubt for one moment the huge affection they had for one another, nor their childhood connection, I just seriously doubt that what they had was The Love of their lives.
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Did I mention how glad I am to see you on the board, Barbara?
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Last edited by Lor-baby; 12-19-2007 at 02:17 AM
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:35 AM
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Whew, I'm really enjoying these discussions here, getting different perspectives on all sorts of relationships now.

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In the "Vegetative State" scene it's quite clear Amy is begging Ephram to say the word because she wants to be with him romantically. That was very obvious to me. She wanted that so very much but it was selfless Ephram who told her they couldn't go there since she had to be loyal to Colin, there wasn't any question her loyalty had to exist with helping Colin no matter how much she wanted to be with Ephram. That, to me, was saying Amy was going back to Colin because of an obligation and due to their history, she had to stick by him.
See, to me, I've always looked at it as less obligation and less history, but more that Amy just needed a push. She needed an Ephram at this point, and thank goodness he didn't take the selfish route and took advantage of Amy at a vulnerable point here, and was totally selfless and awesome. It's just more than loyalty to me. I really look at it that this world that she was constructing, this fantasy with Colin that she had made, I do see it, but I see it here. I see it at this point, with the surgery. And this is when it collapses, and this is when she needs help. I just think it's more than she had to stick by him, but that she wanted to, but she didn't know how and she was having doubts about sticking with a Colin that would never get better. But by the end of the ep, when she reintroduces herself to Colin, I see that as just more than loyalty and because of history, I think she decides at that point that the fantasy isn't real and there is this guy in Colin that she wants to be with. The fantasy, for me, is gone right when Colin wakes up. There's no more, and from that perspective, I really don't think Amy sticks with Colin that long out of loyalty thinking that fantasy would come back, because it doesn't for moooonths.

And this is why, while I totally see what you guys are saying about Ephram breaking the fantasy of Colin, what I see, is Colin breaking the fantasy of Colin by coming out of the coma and NOT being the fantasy, and being a new person, and Amy deciding to get to know that new person, reluctantly. And this person is not the fantasy, and she's unhappy with that at times, but she works through it. I don't see it as just loyalty.

I don't know, I've explained that horribly. But somewhere in that mix of rambles is how I see it. It might just be a word, like "the" because man that was a horrible explanation by me! But I do see what you're saying too, and from the writing and acting, I get that interpretation too and MAN, it makes so much sense, eh? I really am going to have to relook at season one and this story again, and while I still think the way I do, it's given me a whole new look at things, which is really cool! I'm very excited to rewatch it, with these new perspectives! Honestly, giddy!

And I actually totally agree with the not being in true love with two people at the same time. Totally, 100%. But I actually don't think Amy was in true love with Ephram at that point. *ducks* Not when Colin first showed up. She had feelings for him, strooooong, and craving feelings, but I don't quite see that she was in love at that point. True love. I don't think they had known each other quite enough at that point and gone through a journey and been through so much and all that to make true love really develop. I guess I'm a sap in that way, in that I believe there's a journey to it, and it doesn't juuust happen right off the bat, or very rarely if it does. Amy saw the potential, and I think she probably had an inkling that it would/could happen and the kiss says that to me, but to me, it's just too soon. The journey of true, actual love, to me, is season two when they finally, actually, truly, get together. The journey of season one to me, is finding out what might be, but isn't quite there yet. I don't know, that probably goes against all EA feelings I should have in season one. And it's another terrible explanation. But, yeah, I don't see EA as being in true love in season one. Not yet, not quite. The hints are springing up as every episode goes on, and Ephram is in love with Amy, and by the time "Home" airs, I think they're right there, they've known each other long enough and gotten to know more about each other, been through so much together and been there for each other, that the journey is right ready to begin in season two (after Amy gets through another kind of journey, of course). But, yeah, the journey to me is getting to that step in season one. Gosh, I'm going to have tomatoes thrown at me after saying all this about EA!!! But maybe it helps explain my warped views on Colin/Amy?

About the scene in "Home", I've always seen it as Ephram doesn't get a moment with Colin, he doesn't get a goodbye. Rina says something like that in the commentaries, but it's the way I've always felt too, long before the commentaries came out. Everyone gets their moment with Colin, but Ephram doesn't. He doesn't get the kind of closure everyone else gets and for that, I find his storyline with Colin almost the most tragic. From sympathy, to friends, to crazy Evil Colin, to a death where he didn't even get a goodbye. It's pretty damn sad. In my view, it was always Colin refusing to make peace with Ephram. But also that he was focused on one thing: the letter. And that scene with Ephram/Colin is also a huge callback to "Episode 20" when Ephram goes to see Bright, Amy answers the door, and Ephram tells her that she doesn't have to wait with him. It's almost the exact same line, and I guess that's why I have that sentiment. It's Colin being a jerk one last time and not saying goodbye, and holding control of that relationship at the end. And that moment with Andy, man, it always gets me.

See, I like Colin too much, that's my problem!! I have a huge sympathy for the kid, even at his most crazy and evil Colin. It's such a sad story, so maybe this fact helps bias what I feel about his relationships and putting a more positive spin on them? Because I really did like the character and I really did like the story that Berlanti told about Colin, even just Colin. This tragic story.

And to me, the fight they have before the accident, I mean...Ephram and Amy have fights like that too. They're teenagers. I guess that's my simplistic view of it. I don't see it as much different than some of the fights Amy and Ephram have had. Amy was pissed that Colin didn't say "I love you", that was a pretty big thing to get angry about at that point. To me, it was justifiable from her end and, more than that, it goes to the revelation later in the ep when she tells Ephram that they had a fight, that this was all her fault, and Ephram's being the awesome, selfless guy he is tells her no. To me, the fight says more about that scene and how Ephram shares the story about his Mom, and how they bond there, and to me, adds to their journey in season one. They begin to relate and bond even more here.

So, yeah, that's my perspectives on things. Crazy Evil Colin perspectives. You may now hit me with bats.

Again, though, I'm really looking forward to rewatching season one with these new perspectives to look at, because I really do see where both of you are coming from and, man, I mean it makes so much sense in the story and in the acting and everything. I still have my interpretation, but I do see this other one too, definitely. And I think that's going to make it really interesting for me to watch and who knows what I might see different next time. It's really exciting, how this show can make you look at the same scene different ways, and have different people do that too, and it's so cool to be able to watch something I've seen way too many times again and see new perspectives. I mean, only Everwood, eh?
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Last edited by 'Tos; 12-18-2007 at 12:09 PM
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:08 PM
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Plus, as much as I love Andy&Nina, I found the proposal to be rushed. I mean these two hadn’t even dated and yet they were getting married. Don’t get me wrong I was happy for them and Andy’s speech had me in tears, but still..
I totally agree! I wish we got to see them go on a date at least..
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:59 PM
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Andy and Nina may not have dated in a traditional way but they kind of always had moments which could be considered as "dates" or at least subtitutes of real dates I guess ...
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