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Old 12-26-2013, 09:19 AM
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The Tom Amandes/Harold Abbott Jr. Appreciation Thread #2 - Because he is like a snarky, sexy version of Mr. Rogers

Oh, yes, Michelle bestowed upon me the honor of starting the second glorious appreciation thread for our beloved Tom Amandes/Harold Abbott Jr. Because I am his mistress, girlfriend, or wife--we haven't quite decided yet.

One way or another, I shall do my best to create a first post that even Harold would approve of!

Let's start with his current filmography:

~FILM~
1992 Straight Talk - Waiter
1996 The Long Kiss Goodnight - Hal
1998 Second Chances - Ben Taylor
1998 Billboard Dad - Maxwell Tyler
1999 Brokedown Palace - Doug Davis
2005 Dirty Deeds - Vice Principal Fuchs
2006 Bonneville - Bill Packard
2011 Lucky - Jonathan
2013 Saving Lincoln - Abraham Lincoln
2013 Imagine - Dr. Arlen (Short film, post-production)

~TELEVISION~
1987 Sable - Episode: "Hunt"
1992 Overexposed - Asst. D.A. Mallery (TV movie)
1993-1994 The Untouchables - Elliott Ness (44 episodes)
1994 Murphy Brown - David Wofford, Episode: "Where Have You Gone, Joe DiMaggio?"
1994 Because Mommy Works - Eric Donovan (TV movie)
1994 Roseanne - Doctor, Episode: "Maybe Baby"
1995 Sisters - Martin, Episode: "Sleeping with the Devil", Episode: "Word of Honor"
1995 If Someone Had Known - Paul Chambers (TV movie)
1995 The Pursuit of Happiness - Steve Rutledge (7 episodes)
1996 Promised Land - Fred Mooster, Episode: "The Hostage"
1997 Promised Land - Fred Mooster, Episode: "Mooster's Revenge"
1998 The Larry Sanders Show - Russ Schmitt, Episode: "Beverly's Secret"
1998 From the Earth to the Moon - Jack Schmitt (TV miniseries)
1998 Seven Days - General Wayne Starker, Episode: "Doppleganger: Part 1", Episode: "Doppleganger: Part 2"
1998 ER - David Gardner, Episode: "The Miracle Worker"
1999 Just Shoot Me! - Matt Bentley, Episode: "Lies & Dolls"
1999 Down Will Come Baby - Marcus Garr (TV movie)
1999 If You Believe - Thom Weller (TV movie)
1999 JAG - Cmdr. John Flagler, Episode: "Silent Service"
2000 The King of Queens - Les Fisker, Episode: "Roast Chicken"
2000 Family Law - Lawrence Cameron, Episode: "One Mistake"
2000 The Practice - Robert Wakefield, Episode: "Appeal and Denial"
2001 NYPD Blue - David Jessup, Episode: "Writing Wrongs"
2001 When Good Ghouls Go Bad - James Walker (TV movie)
2001 Spin City - Julian Wheeler (3 episodes)
2001-2002 The Guardian - Dr. Thomas Reed (3 episodes)
2001 JAG - Cmdr. John Flagler, Episode: "The Iron Coffin"
2002 JAG - Cmdr. John Flagler, Episode: "Enemy Below"
2002 Live from Baghdad - Joe Erlichman (TV movie)
2002-2006 Everwood - Dr. Harold Abbott Jr. (89 episodes)
2006 Numb3rs - Lawrence Dryden, Episode: "Brutus"
2007 Curb Your Enthusiasm - Bert, Episode: "The Lefty Call"
2007 Women's Murder Club - D.A. Pratt, Episode: "The Past Comes Back to Haunt You"
2008 The Riches - Episode: "Field of Dreams"
2008 Private Practice - Charlie, Episode: "Equal & Opposite"
2008 Boston Legal - A.A.G. Jeremy Hollis, Episode: "The Almighty Rogues", Episode: "Juiced"
2008-2009 Eli Stone - Martin Posner (11 episodes)
2009 This Might Hurt - Dr. Mitch Malinow (TV movie)
2009 Greek - Episode: "Our Fathers"
2009 Grey's Anatomy - Charlie Waller, Episode: "Tainted Obligation"
2009 Eastwick - Pastor Dunn, Episode: "Madams and Madames", Episode: "Bonfire and Betrayal"
2010 The Deep End - Don Branford, Episode: "Pilot", Episode: "Where There's Smoke"
2010 Big Love - State Rep. Roy Colburn (3 episodes)
2010 The Good Guys - Dr. Kalfuss, Episode: "Pilot"
2010 No Ordinary Family - Dr. Allen, Episode: "Pilot"
2010-2011 Parenthood - Dr. Pelikan (6 episodes)
2011 Leverage - Livingston, Episode: "The Queen's Gambit Job"
2011 Against the Wall - Episode: "Memories We Fear"
2012 Fairly Legal - Mitch Rhinehart, Episode: "Shine a Light"
2012 Scandal - Gov. Samuel Reston, Episode: "All Roads Lead to Fitz"
2013 Scandal - Gov. Samuel Reston, Episode: "A Criminal, a Whore, an Idiot and a Liar"
2013 Cult - Gary Fisher, Episode: "You're Next"
2013 Don't Trust the B---- in Apartment 23 - Mr. Harkin, Episode: "Paris..."
2013 Castle - Aaron Stokes, Episode: "Number One Fan"

~DIRECTING~
2011-2012 Hart of Dixie (TV Series) (2 episodes, "Aliens & Aliases", "The Undead & The Unsaid")
2009 Brothers & Sisters (TV Series) (1 episode, "A Father Dreams")
2005 Everwood (TV Series) (2 episodes, "Connect Four", "Surprise")

Biography:

"Tom was born on March 9, 1959 and grew up in the small towns of Richmond and Crystal Lake, Illinois. He began performing at home with his 10 brothers and sisters creating puppet shows, short films, music and radio dramas, before moving on to school plays and community theater.

He graduated from The Goodman School of Drama, as it became the Theatre School at DePaul University, and was a recipient of their 2011 Award for Excellence in the Arts. His work on the Chicago stage began in the ensemble of the Body Politic Theatre, where he starred in such memorable productions as Translations, The Playboy of the Western World and Falstaff & Hal. Other notable stage work includes What the Butler Saw, Candida and The Mystery Cycle at the Court Theatre, and Free Advice from Prague and The Courtship of Carl Sandburg at Northlight.

Tom was head writer and announcer of the NPR musical variety show The Flea Market. He directed plays for the Curious Theater, played music with both Balderdash and Jamie O'Reilly & the Rogues, and was artistic director of the Call to Action Theater.

While working on-stage in Chicago, Tom was cast as Eliot Ness in the television series The Untouchables and spent two years shooting on his home turf. Moving to L.A., Tom starred in the NBC comedy The Pursuit of Happiness, with Melinda McGraw and Brad Garrett. He's played recurring roles on Big Love, Boston Legal, Eli Stone, The Guardian, Spin City, From the Earth to the Moon and most recently, Parenthood. Other favorite TV work includes Grey's Anatomy, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Just Shoot Me, ER and The Larry Sanders Show.

Traveling to the western Rockies, Tom spent four years portraying the beloved Dr. Harold Abbott on family drama Everwood, opposite Treat Williams. He went on to direct episodes of Everwood as well as ABC's Brothers and Sisters and the new CW series Hart of Dixie.

Tom's film credits include The Long Kiss Goodnight opposite Geena Davis, Brokedown Palace with Claire Danes and Kate Beckinsale, Billboard Dad with the Olsen twins, Second Chances, Straight Talk, HBO's Live From Baghdad and the recent black-comedy Lucky, with Colin Hanks and Ari Graynor.

His work on the Chicago stage continues at the Victory Gardens Theater, where he's starred most recently in Cynical Weathers and Edward Albee's At Home At The Zoo, both directed by Dennis Zacek.

Tom stars as Abraham Lincoln in the Salvador Litvak film Saving Lincoln, opposite Penelope Ann Miller and Lea Coco. He appears as Governor Samuel Reston in the ABC series Scandal, opposite fellow Everwood alum Brenda Strong, and can also be seen as French President Bernard Milbert in the NBC comedy 1600 Penn, opposite Bill Pullman and Jenna Elfman.

Tom is married to actress Nancy Everhard, who played Katherine Ness on The Untouchables. His daughters Meg and Nia make up two-thirds of the Chicago band Midnight Moxie. And his son Ben is himself a budding hyphenate."

And how about some photos for decoration?




~Tom directing Gregory Smith and Chris Pratt~


~Accurate sign is accurate~




~Tom and the gang~

Last but not least, I saw that on other appreciation threads, they had "Reasons Why We Love So-and-So" so I thought I would spearhead a list for this thread as well! I'll start it off.

~REASONS WHY WE LOVE HAROLD/TOM~

1.) Because Harold flipped the conventions by being "the persnickety jerk who is also an amazing father." - Greg Berlanti
2.) Because Harold looked hot in argyle.
3.) Because Harold had a mancrush on Andy Brown.
4.) Because the one and only, Tom Amandes, played Harold Abbott Jr.
5.) Because Harold was a truly loving husband.
6.) Because Harold had movie night and made popcorn.
7.) Because Harold was afraid to steal gum.
8.) Because Harold loved his parking space.
9.) Because Harold followed his dad's wishes even when they were not his own.
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AMY: Phone's been ringing non-stop since the paper came out. There are a bunch more messages on the machine.
HAROLD: Amy? Are these all of them?
AMY: Sorry Dad, he didn't call.
HAROLD: I don't know what you mean.

Last edited by LemonyPie; 12-27-2013 at 03:50 PM
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:00 AM
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Love, love, LOVE this thread! I also love that you added in the "Jr" in the title because that should have been in there in the first thread.

Love the title (so awesome ) and the pictures and added stuff you included = perfection.

I love the wonderful opening page. It looks gorgeous, you did a beautiful job. You own this thread now... and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Will be back once company leaves to comment more.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:42 AM
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Thanks for the new thread! It looks really awesome! Great job!

Betty I wasn't crazy about Bright and Harold in the beginning either. I was mostly indifferent. No hate, but not love either. I came to like them later though.
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Old 12-26-2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonyPie (View Post)
~REASONS WHY WE LOVE HAROLD/TOM~

1.) Because Harold flipped the conventions by being "the persnickety jerk who is also an amazing father" - Greg Berlanti
When did Berlanti make that comment? I love it!

Oh and a few:

2.) Because Harold looked hot in argyle.
3.) Because Harold had a mancrush on Andy Brown.
4.) Because the one and only, Tom Amandes, played Harold Abbott Jr.

Last edited by Auror; 12-26-2013 at 11:32 AM
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:21 PM
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Thanks, Eva!! You did a beautiful job!

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Old 12-26-2013, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post)
Love, love, LOVE this thread! I also love that you added in the "Jr" in the title because that should have been in there in the first thread.

Love the title (so awesome ) and the pictures and added stuff you included = perfection.

I love the wonderful opening page. It looks gorgeous, you did a beautiful job. You own this thread now... and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Will be back once company leaves to comment more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by secretk
Thanks for the new thread! It looks really awesome! Great job!
Quote:
Originally Posted by everwoodfan52
Thanks, Eva!! You did a beautiful job!
Thank you, thank you, all! *takes a bow and catches roses* I am very glad you all like it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by secretk
Betty I wasn't crazy about Bright and Harold in the beginning either. I was mostly indifferent. No hate, but not love either. I came to like them later though.
Do you remember the moment, story arc, or even the season when you first started to like Harold? Any particular reason or was it a gradual thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich1111
When did Berlanti make that comment? I love it!
He made that comment during the commentary on "The Pilot"! He was talking about how he tried to flip conventions with a lot of the characters, such as the typical military grandfather being turned into a military grandmother with Edna and Harold being "the persnickety jerk who was also an amazing father".

Quote:
Oh and a few:

2.) Because Harold looked hot in argyle.
3.) Because Harold had a mancrush on Andy Brown.
4.) Because the one and only, Tom Amandes, played Harold Abbott Jr.
Those are PERFECT and I shall add them to the list right away!

Quote:
I forgot to tell you that I love your signature/quote. I loved that Andy/Harold moment.
Oh, the writers totally knew what they were doing. Yes, they did. I'm going to change my signature to another "the writers were definitely in on it" moment in just a bit too; stay tuned.

Quote:
How does it get any better than that trio? Seriously.
Did I tell you that I talked to Berlanti a few days ago and we made further plans for the Harold/Andy spin-off? Here's what we have so far: after Delia graduates high school, she goes to college in New York, and Andy, Ephram, and Nina decide to join her. Andy gets back into surgery but also starts his medical radio show. A radio show by himself? Why of course not! With Harold! And much of the show focuses on Harold's transition from country doctor to city doctor/radio personality. Starring: Tom Amandes, Treat Williams, Gregory Smith, Vivienne Cordone, and Merrilyn Gann. Guest starring: Emily Van Camp (first season, regular cast member from season 2 onward), Chris Pratt (first season, regular cast member from season 2 onward). Executive producers: Me and Greg Berlanti

What do you think? Would you be interested in coming aboard as another executive producer?

Quote:
Seriously, think about how hard that was on Harold. He was the town doctor for years.. his father was the town doctor before that. Suddenly, a hot shot NY arrogant filthy rich neurosurgeon doctor moves to town and instantly takes all his patients by paying for their healthcare? That had to suck!
I agree! And everyone acted like he was the villain in the situation. Even though his actions were perfectly logical...I don't blame him for not wanting to see patients without appointments because as we can plainly see, the people of Everwood are not exactly the brightest or most loyal...who knows if one might get in their head to try and sue, out of ignorance and pettiness?

Quote:
I know! Jake was one huge reason why Harold/Andy had limited scenes in those two seasons. Their season 1 scenes especially were golden and I really wish that would have maintained in the later seasons!
Absolutely agreed of course. I did love their buddy-buddy scenes in season 4 too though. A balance between buddy scenes and banter scenes would have been ideal.

Quote:
Do it!!!!!

To be honest, I am not sure there even is a Harold/Edna thread! I don't remember seeing one unless I lost my mind and can't remember at the moment.

Let me check something... I don't see one that was created back when we kept track of threads being created: (Read First) Newbie Central #4: Introduction & Board Guide, Everwood Resources

Feel free to create one!
IT WILL BE DONE. *determined fist in the air*

Quote:
Totally! Tom made Harold very likable and lovable. I think if another actor played Harold with less talent, Harold could have come across as rather unlikable. Harold was a tough character to play. The audience had to embrace and pick up on all of his quirks and traits. Harold screws up, annoys, is awesome at the same time and because Tom plays the character, the audience just cheers and loves Harold.

Oh yes, both Harold and Amy were 20% script/Berlanti but 80% Tom and Emily. The talented actors made those two characters.
Well, I would say it's perhaps 40% script/60% Tom and Emily. As a writer myself, I have to give the writers quite a bit of credit for creating and maintaining these wonderful characters.

As we see on many other shows, the actors stay the same and stay amazing, but often the writing declines and ruins the entire series. Of course there are also times when the actors become annoying in their own right (Alexis Bledel, Katie Holmes, et cetera) but their decline is almost always accompanied by poorly-written changes in their characters as well. Fortunately, neither problem existed on "Everwood". Tom and Emily and everyone else remained hard-working for the duration of the show and clearly always put their very best into their performances, and the writers continued to give them stellar material to perform!

I do think Harold and Amy though were two characters that could have been quite different if played by different actors. Andy was also one of these for me. Harold could have come across as unlikable and unsympathetic; Amy could have come across as a too typical popular girl; and Andy especially...his character on paper does not sound very lovable at all, an arrogant surgeon that never had time for his family and now because of his wife's death thinks he can turn it all around by moving them to a small town by manipulating his daughter and explicitly going against his son's wishes? They definitely needed Treat, with his warm smile and brilliant mix of a fun-loving and vulnerable personality, to make Andy into the kind of protagonist so many could identify with and root for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by everwoodfan52
I'll help with this killing of the thread. I have to admit that I wasn't crazy about Harold when I first met him. But since this is an appreciation thread...I have to say that when I was first made aware of how Edna abandoned him....how he strongly kept his dad's family practice going while Linda was trying to save the world...when I saw what a wonderful loving husband and father he was....when I saw what a good loyal friend he became to Andy...when I saw that he finally realized that Ephram was not a future felon and a good love candidate for his daugher....that's when I started to love Harold!
An excellent list of reasons to warm up to our Harold! It actually doesn't surprise me that you were not initially a fan of him though, especially because he treated Ephram poorly from "The Pilot" onward through most of the first season. What did you think of the Harold/Ephram moment when Harold gives Ephram advice on his piano-playing and talks to him about Amy going to Princeton? That was such a beautiful moment, in my opinion. I wish we got more Harold/Ephram scenes because they are actually rather similar, and it would have been very interesting to explore.
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AMY: Phone's been ringing non-stop since the paper came out. There are a bunch more messages on the machine.
HAROLD: Amy? Are these all of them?
AMY: Sorry Dad, he didn't call.
HAROLD: I don't know what you mean.
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:42 PM
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It actually doesn't surprise me that you were not initially a fan of him though, especially because he treated Ephram poorly from "The Pilot" onward through most of the first season
Thanks for understanding, Eva!

Quote:
What did you think of the Harold/Ephram moment when Harold gives Ephram advice on his piano-playing and talks to him about Amy going to Princeton? That was such a beautiful moment, in my opinion. I wish we got more Harold/Ephram scenes because they are actually rather similar, and it would have been very interesting to explore.
I absolutely loved that scene as well! I believe that this scene served as a discovery for both Harold and Ephram regarding each other. Harold had never heard Ephram play and for the first time realized how very talented Ephram was. Ephram really didn't know Harold until this moment and I could tell that he was very impressed by Harold's knowledge of music, including sharing a fact that Epham didn't even know about Bach!
I, too, wish that there would have been more scenes with these two!

A few more to add if you'd like.....

5.)Because Harold was a truly loving husband.
6.)Because Harold had movie night and made popcorn.
7.)Because Harold was afraid to steal gum.
8.)Because Harold loved his parking space.
9.)Because Harold followed his dad's wishes even when they were not his own.

Last edited by everwoodfan52; 12-26-2013 at 05:58 PM
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Old 12-26-2013, 07:37 PM
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Appreciating!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonyPie (View Post)

He made that comment during the commentary on "The Pilot"! He was talking about how he tried to flip conventions with a lot of the characters, such as the typical military grandfather being turned into a military grandmother with Edna and Harold being "the persnickety jerk who was also an amazing father".
Ah yes! Yes, I remember his thoughts on Amy and the layers upon layers the character would bring. His praise of EVC was front and center.

I've always thought that Harold and Amy were the two most difficult characters of the series to play. Tom and Emily were magical.

Quote:
Did I tell you that I talked to Berlanti a few days ago and we made further plans for the Harold/Andy spin-off? Here's what we have so far: after Delia graduates high school, she goes to college in New York, and Andy, Ephram, and Nina decide to join her. Andy gets back into surgery but also starts his medical radio show. A radio show by himself? Why of course not! With Harold! And much of the show focuses on Harold's transition from country doctor to city doctor/radio personality. Starring: Tom Amandes, Treat Williams, Gregory Smith, Vivienne Cordone, and Merrilyn Gann. Guest starring: Emily Van Camp (first season, regular cast member from season 2 onward), Chris Pratt (first season, regular cast member from season 2 onward). Executive producers: Me and Greg Berlanti

What do you think? Would you be interested in coming aboard as another executive producer?
Get the contract started and I will sign on the dotted line!

Seriously, I wish Berlanti could read your creative thoughts. I think he would wonder who Eva is very quickly.

Quote:
I agree! And everyone acted like he was the villain in the situation. Even though his actions were perfectly logical...I don't blame him for not wanting to see patients without appointments because as we can plainly see, the people of Everwood are not exactly the brightest or most loyal...who knows if one might get in their head to try and sue, out of ignorance and pettiness?
Exactly! Yes, I couldn't stand how everyone acted like Harold sucked rocks for actually having the audacity to accept and take health insurance. I didn't like that at all. Or even for Andy to think that it was wise to steal Harold's patients given the long history Harold had as the doctor. Harold was the one that knew these people and for years. He could give the quality medical care way better than Andy if you ask me. Andy was a neurosurgeon suddenly wanting to be a family doctor. That was a big transition. Harold was the true professional here who was polished and knew the history of these patients so perfectly, he could recite each history in his sleep.

Quote:
Absolutely agreed of course. I did love their buddy-buddy scenes in season 4 too though. A balance between buddy scenes and banter scenes would have been ideal.
I think the point was demonstrating how that they didn't have to banter so much because their feelings for each other were out in the open. They could have a true friendship in season 4 without holding back. The tension was over, it was about friendship and comfort.

Bringing back what a nightmare I feel Madisongate was and how it affected every character and every dynamic... even Madisongate affected Harold and Andy. Andy confided in Harold early on and put him in a very difficult situation given that Harold was Amy's father and he had to remain silent for as long as possible. I think Andy revealing the news to Harold showed how much he could trust him and how close they were. However, in a way it also sort of drove a tiny wedge between them. Andy had to sort of be on his own while he was swallowed up with guilt, developing bleeding ulcers, having an affair with Amanda as "punishment." The entire situation was such an unnecessary nightmare.

Quote:
As we see on many other shows, the actors stay the same and stay amazing, but often the writing declines and ruins the entire series. Of course there are also times when the actors become annoying in their own right (Alexis Bledel, Katie Holmes, et cetera) but their decline is almost always accompanied by poorly-written changes in their characters as well. Fortunately, neither problem existed on "Everwood". Tom and Emily and everyone else remained hard-working for the duration of the show and clearly always put their very best into their performances, and the writers continued to give them stellar material to perform!

I do think Harold and Amy though were two characters that could have been quite different if played by different actors. Andy was also one of these for me. Harold could have come across as unlikable and unsympathetic; Amy could have come across as a too typical popular girl; and Andy especially...his character on paper does not sound very lovable at all, an arrogant surgeon that never had time for his family and now because of his wife's death thinks he can turn it all around by moving them to a small town by manipulating his daughter and explicitly going against his son's wishes? They definitely needed Treat, with his warm smile and brilliant mix of a fun-loving and vulnerable personality, to make Andy into the kind of protagonist so many could identify with and root for.
Agreed! Great thoughts.

Last edited by Auror; 12-26-2013 at 07:43 PM
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:54 AM
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When I say I didn't like Harold right in the beginning I mean the first episode or something like that. In the Pilot Harold and Bright were introduced as antagonists to Andy and Ephram. Now Harold was earlier made something more while for Bright it took a while to be more than bully to Ephram. However I think that for both of them it was their scenes with Amy.

Harold was shown almost immediately as a father that had immense connection to his daughter (he wasn't that successful with Bright, but with Amy he was). I guess this influenced me because I'm a girl myself and I know how I communicate with my father so it was lovely for me to see this interaction. So I guess the moment they started showing Harold with Amy I grew to like him. After this moment of course I also liked his scenes with Andy because I knew that there is more to him than someone that dislikes Andy.

In general I loved all Amy/Harold scenes because I think that the actors played their dynamic beautifully. In the first season specifically I remember when Harold explained to Amy that Ephram likes her, when she completely broke down at the dance and he just picked her up (that was so strong moment for the show as well), when they argued over some silly things sometimes (like Amy going to the fair with Ephram). However in each scene between you could feel the love and respect they had for each other.
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:53 AM
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The Amy/Harold scenes were remarkable in season 1. Berlanti did a wonderful job of establishing their very close dynamic. It was great stuff.

To be honest, for me, I could absolutely see how Harold would have been wondering about Ephram in the beginning. The guy had purple hair and rarely had a smile on his face. He was sulky and walked around like he was in pain. That is all Harold viewed initially. To the audience, we understood what a good guy Ephram was but Harold never got to see that. Harold's instinct as a parent was to protect his children, especially his teenage girl who was going through a tremendous amount of stress and confusion over her boyfriend suffering severe brain injury, in a coma.

The second Harold understood Ephram's intentions and that he was a good guy is when Harold was just fine with Ephram. Before this time, Harold didn't know Ephram in the least. His actions were justified in my opinion.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post)
The Amy/Harold scenes were remarkable in season 1. Berlanti did a wonderful job of establishing their very close dynamic. It was great stuff.
I agree with this.

Quote:
To be honest, for me, I could absolutely see how Harold would have been wondering about Ephram in the beginning. The guy had purple hair and rarely had a smile on his face. He was sulky and walked around like he was in pain. That is all Harold viewed initially. To the audience, we understood what a good guy Ephram was but Harold never got to see that. Harold's instinct as a parent was to protect his children, especially his teenage girl who was going through a tremendous amount of stress and confusion over her boyfriend suffering severe brain injury, in a coma.
That is so true. Me not being crazy over Harold was not because that he didn't like Ephram, but the fact that at first he had no other personality aside not liking Andy and Ephram. The moment he got personality - namely his scenes with Amy, Rose, Bright I started liking him. It was not personal about Harold, but it's just natural to like more characters who have substance and personality.

Quote:
The second Harold understood Ephram's intentions and that he was a good guy is when Harold was just fine with Ephram. Before this time, Harold didn't know Ephram in the least. His actions were justified in my opinion.
Yep that's true and of course he would be very cautious about everyone around Amy given how she handled her boyfriend being in coma. That's enough hard to take, there was no need for other issues for her. It's a normal thing for every parent to protect their children.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by secretk (View Post)
I agree with this.



That is so true. Me not being crazy over Harold was not because that he didn't like Ephram, but the fact that at first he had no other personality aside not liking Andy and Ephram. The moment he got personality - namely his scenes with Amy, Rose, Bright I started liking him. It was not personal about Harold, but it's just natural to like more characters who have substance and personality.
See, remember a while back when we talked about RB and Chloe? I said I liked her because she seemed nuts? LOL I am drawn to (in real life and TV characters) eccentric types. I don't know why but I am. So Harold and how he just "existed" was enough for me. I loved the comedy and drama attached to Harold. He was priceless. But I can certainly see why some fans had to sit back and wait for his character to develop more.

Quote:
Yep that's true and of course he would be very cautious about everyone around Amy given how she handled her boyfriend being in coma. That's enough hard to take, there was no need for other issues for her. It's a normal thing for every parent to protect their children.
Exactly. Honestly, if I would have dated a season 1 Ephram in looks and personality without knowing him yet, my parents would have been wide-eyed asking a lot of questions. LOL They always talked to me about who I dated and the guys I dated were friends of the family, Catholic boys.

Seriously, like you said, every parent naturally wants to protect their children. They will protect their children all the more if other circumstances are involved, too.
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:24 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post)
Thanks for understanding, Eva!
Of course!

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I absolutely loved that scene as well! I believe that this scene served as a discovery for both Harold and Ephram regarding each other. Harold had never heard Ephram play and for the first time realized how very talented Ephram was. Ephram really didn't know Harold until this moment and I could tell that he was very impressed by Harold's knowledge of music, including sharing a fact that Epham didn't even know about Bach!
I, too, wish that there would have been more scenes with these two!
Yes, yes, yes! I do consider that scene their first (and unfortunately last) real scene together, the only one where they got to know each other even a little and bonded. But throughout the series, I noted similarities between them, both being somewhat cynical, having mixed feelings about the town of Everwood and its citizens, witty, romantic, loyal, not fitting in with the crowd, et cetera. I wonder if Amy subconsciously sought out some of these traits because of her father.

And though Harold was wary of Ephram initially, I found it interesting that he still defended Ephram to Amy and was already protective of his feelings in the scene when Amy asks him if it's possible to be in love with two people and he says "Very possible" (thinking of Andy) and then adds "But it's not possible to be loyal to more than one person" and basically advises her to take Ephram's feelings into consideration and not take advantage of him. That's my Harold!

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A few more to add if you'd like.....

5.)Because Harold was a truly loving husband.
6.)Because Harold had movie night and made popcorn.
7.)Because Harold was afraid to steal gum.
8.)Because Harold loved his parking space.
9.)Because Harold followed his dad's wishes even when they were not his own.
Added! Keep 'em coming!

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Originally Posted by Mich1111
Ah yes! Yes, I remember his thoughts on Amy and the layers upon layers the character would bring. His praise of EVC was front and center.

I've always thought that Harold and Amy were the two most difficult characters of the series to play. Tom and Emily were magical.
I've only listened to the first commentary but I plan to listen to the others as well and am excited to hear more from Berlanti and of course from Amandes and EVC themselves!

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Get the contract started and I will sign on the dotted line!
Faxed it to you yesterday. Let me know when it arrives!

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Seriously, I wish Berlanti could read your creative thoughts. I think he would wonder who Eva is very quickly.
He has already read them and is sending them off to the studio in early January! Which studio, you ask? Thankfully not the CW. He learned from that mistake. We're going with ABC Family instead.

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Exactly! Yes, I couldn't stand how everyone acted like Harold sucked rocks for actually having the audacity to accept and take health insurance. I didn't like that at all. Or even for Andy to think that it was wise to steal Harold's patients given the long history Harold had as the doctor. Harold was the one that knew these people and for years. He could give the quality medical care way better than Andy if you ask me. Andy was a neurosurgeon suddenly wanting to be a family doctor. That was a big transition. Harold was the true professional here who was polished and knew the history of these patients so perfectly, he could recite each history in his sleep.
It was a bit unrealistic how they portrayed Andy, wasn't it? How he was able to go from big shot neurosurgeon to wonderful, caring, attentive family doctor in such a short amount of time? They had Harold saying that family doctoring is "a marathon, not a sprint" and yet they never really explored that angle. Andy became a great family doctor almost immediately. I hate to admit it but even I probably would have gone to see Andy. Only because I think Andy always went the extra mile with his patients; Harold did too at times but not quite as much as Andy, or at least we weren't shown him doing so. So I can understand why people would go to Andy, especially since it was free, but they still shouldn't have acted like Harold was some nuisance of a doctor that they all couldn't wait to leave.

And yes, I also find Andy's thought process on the matter questionable. He didn't seem to care in the slightest that he would be stealing possibly all of this already established doctor's patients; yes, yes, I know that's business and all, but still. Of course it worked out for everyone, and they even had enough people for three doctors at any given time! Ha!

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I think the point was demonstrating how that they didn't have to banter so much because their feelings for each other were out in the open. They could have a true friendship in season 4 without holding back. The tension was over, it was about friendship and comfort.
Great point, and I do agree...but still...I MISSED MY BANTER. I also feel like, even though they had become true friends and the tension was over, they still had many opposing personality traits and views that the writers could have used to retain at least a little of their glorious season 1/2 dynamic.

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Bringing back what a nightmare I feel Madisongate was and how it affected every character and every dynamic... even Madisongate affected Harold and Andy. Andy confided in Harold early on and put him in a very difficult situation given that Harold was Amy's father and he had to remain silent for as long as possible. I think Andy revealing the news to Harold showed how much he could trust him and how close they were. However, in a way it also sort of drove a tiny wedge between them. Andy had to sort of be on his own while he was swallowed up with guilt, developing bleeding ulcers, having an affair with Amanda as "punishment." The entire situation was such an unnecessary nightmare.
True, it did affect their dynamic, but why do you think it drove a wedge between them? I don't recall any instances of that in season 3...well, I think the affair with Amanda (which may have been an indirect result of Madisongate) drove a tiny wedge between them but even that was not too bad.

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Originally Posted by secretk
When I say I didn't like Harold right in the beginning I mean the first episode or something like that. In the Pilot Harold and Bright were introduced as antagonists to Andy and Ephram. Now Harold was earlier made something more while for Bright it took a while to be more than bully to Ephram. However I think that for both of them it was their scenes with Amy.
I can understand this. I personally am always interested in the uptight, snobbish, eccentric characters so Harold was a no-brainer for me, but I can see why he may come across like Bright's character to others, as a contagonist that rains on others' parades and doesn't offer much else. Like you, I didn't like or care about Bright until they developed his character and showed his positive qualities, and you're right, they did that much quicker with Harold.

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Harold was shown almost immediately as a father that had immense connection to his daughter (he wasn't that successful with Bright, but with Amy he was). I guess this influenced me because I'm a girl myself and I know how I communicate with my father so it was lovely for me to see this interaction. So I guess the moment they started showing Harold with Amy I grew to like him. After this moment of course I also liked his scenes with Andy because I knew that there is more to him than someone that dislikes Andy.

In general I loved all Amy/Harold scenes because I think that the actors played their dynamic beautifully. In the first season specifically I remember when Harold explained to Amy that Ephram likes her, when she completely broke down at the dance and he just picked her up (that was so strong moment for the show as well), when they argued over some silly things sometimes (like Amy going to the fair with Ephram). However in each scene between you could feel the love and respect they had for each other.
A marvelous list of marvelous moments. Though many of my favorite Amy/Harold scenes were their fun, cute, lighthearted ones. I started loving their dynamic in "Deer God", when Amy is helping Harold with the newspapers and calls him crazy. I thought that established an adorable relationship between them!

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Originally Posted by Mich1111
To be honest, for me, I could absolutely see how Harold would have been wondering about Ephram in the beginning. The guy had purple hair and rarely had a smile on his face. He was sulky and walked around like he was in pain. That is all Harold viewed initially. To the audience, we understood what a good guy Ephram was but Harold never got to see that. Harold's instinct as a parent was to protect his children, especially his teenage girl who was going through a tremendous amount of stress and confusion over her boyfriend suffering severe brain injury, in a coma.

The second Harold understood Ephram's intentions and that he was a good guy is when Harold was just fine with Ephram. Before this time, Harold didn't know Ephram in the least. His actions were justified in my opinion.
I never thought about it like that, but you make another excellent point. As a parent and person, I would try to give Ephram a chance and get to know him before judging him, and I think Harold was too rash when he told Andy to keep his son away from his daughter (especially because he should have known by that point that Bright was often the cause of trouble himself and it was not necessarily Ephram's fault) but now that you mention it like that, I can see where he was coming from. Amy already had a boyfriend, a boy that he had known for years and years, the golden boy that everyone loved, one that he seemed to approve of. And then waltzes in this New Yorker with purple hair and a perpetual frown? Yep, I can see why he would be wary.
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AMY: Sorry Dad, he didn't call.
HAROLD: I don't know what you mean.
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:34 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post)
See, remember a while back when we talked about RB and Chloe? I said I liked her because she seemed nuts? LOL I am drawn to (in real life and TV characters) eccentric types. I don't know why but I am. So Harold and how he just "existed" was enough for me. I loved the comedy and drama attached to Harold. He was priceless. But I can certainly see why some fans had to sit back and wait for his character to develop more.
Yeah I remember, but those eccentric characters are too much for to take if this is the only personality trait they show. In real life such people exhaust me. I have this sort of type reaction to sulky characters like Ephram. Man I know that from a far such character could be quite annoying, but for some reason I'm drawn to such men. Can't explain it. It happens to me in real life as well. I guess I see them as puzzling mysterious and I love solving puzzles. I also understand them better for some reason. I always go for such characters and people in real life. The fact that I get them makes them anything but frustrating for me.

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Exactly. Honestly, if I would have dated a season 1 Ephram in looks and personality without knowing him yet, my parents would have been wide-eyed asking a lot of questions. LOL They always talked to me about who I dated and the guys I dated were friends of the family, Catholic boys.

Seriously, like you said, every parent naturally wants to protect their children. They will protect their children all the more if other circumstances are involved, too.
. I think that my parents would be fairly OK because I was that type of teen as well so I doubt that they would have been really surprised . In fact it would be like "Oh it's normal for you to pick such guy". And my parents don't meddle in my personal life especially the romantic one at all. They are happy if I find someone who is not criminal, drug addict or abuser . However I do understand why Harold would doubt Ephram till he gets to know him.

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It was a bit unrealistic how they portrayed Andy, wasn't it? How he was able to go from big shot neurosurgeon to wonderful, caring, attentive family doctor in such a short amount of time? They had Harold saying that family doctoring is "a marathon, not a sprint" and yet they never really explored that angle. Andy became a great family doctor almost immediately. I hate to admit it but even I probably would have gone to see Andy. Only because I think Andy always went the extra mile with his patients; Harold did too at times but not quite as much as Andy, or at least we weren't shown him doing so. So I can understand why people would go to Andy, especially since it was free, but they still shouldn't have acted like Harold was some nuisance of a doctor that they all couldn't wait to leave.

And yes, I also find Andy's thought process on the matter questionable. He didn't seem to care in the slightest that he would be stealing possibly all of this already established doctor's patients; yes, yes, I know that's business and all, but still. Of course it worked out for everyone, and they even had enough people for three doctors at any given time! Ha!
I definitely agree with this. In fact I think that it was quite unfair that he offered them free practice because this way Harold was left behind. I mean it's simple economics he had the money so he could have afforded this and it was like something a kid wants while for Harold it was a job that paid off. So I definitely understood Harold's frustration on the matter.
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:54 PM
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AMY: Phone's been ringing non-stop since the paper came out. There are a bunch more messages on the machine.
HAROLD: Amy? Are these all of them?
AMY: Sorry Dad, he didn't call.
HAROLD: I don't know what you mean.
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