Everwood - Religion in Everwood - Page 3

**jediwands** · 09-16-2009, 12:45 PM

Here's a winded but appropriate way to differentiate between the two faiths:

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Question
I would like to know what is different with Episcopalianism compared to Roman Catholic?

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Answer
Maureenmaher,

Please note the following written by an Episcopal Bishop.

"...What is the difference between Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism?

In many respects, there are no differences between the two churches. They are both Christian churches, springing from the same ancient source as the Eastern Orthodox churches. As such, Anglicans and Roman Catholics read the Bible with not only the two Testaments but also the Apocrypha, those books of the Hebrew Bible written in Greek.

Both churches recite the Nicene and Apostles Creeds. Both administer Baptism and Confirmation, and celebrate the Holy Communion, as well as the four other sacramental rites of Penance, Matrimony, Anointing of the Sick, and Holy Orders.

Their clergy are ordained deacon first, then priest, unless they are called to be perpetual deacons. From the priests bishops are chosen and consecrated by no fewer than three bishops belonging to a scrupulously conserved line of bishops that reaches back to the earliest churches.

There are Roman Catholic and Anglican shrines to Mary. Some Anglicans pray the rosary. Both churches maintain calendars of saints, with special prayers and readings for their feast days. Both churches have orders of men and women religious, vowed celibates who live in monasteries and convents.

If you were to visit an Anglican parish (they both use the term for a congregation) and then a Roman Catholic parish, you would observe many other similarities. In the United States, at least, the liturgies are almost identical, as are the customary vestments worn by the clergy and lay assisting ministers.

The differences are in the details, for the most part. These differences flow from one central issue: who is in authority.

The Roman Catholic Church has over the centuries steadily increased the power and prestige of the Pope, the Bishop of Rome. In our day, the combination of an extraordinarily gifted pope, John Paul II, with the mass media and globalization, have raised the office of pope to its highest level ever. The peripatetic pontiff has traveled far more than any of his predecessors. When he visits a country, it is to speak, not to listen, however. His bishops around the world act more as his prefects than as overseers of the regional Christian community. St Augustine's famous saying, Roma locuta causa finita est (Rome has spoken and that settles the matter) has never been more true than today.

Despite the attempts of Vatican II to create local synods at the diocesan and national levels, they serve still in a purely advisory capacity. No other body has any authority over the pope, either. For example, when Pope Paul VI issued the encyclical Humanæ Vitæ forbidding birth control, he ignored the recommendations of the commission he had appointed to advise him. The Vicar of Christ holds all the reins. Authority flows from him down and outward.

The churches of the Anglican Communion have resolutely sought to disperse that absolute authority among several places. A famous report on authority in Anglicanism spoke of this peculiarly Anglican view of authority, which flows, it says, from the edges to the center. Each Anglican Church belongs to the Anglican Communion because it is in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury and seeks to uphold the catholic faith and reformed order inherited from the Church of England. Yet each one is independent. The Archbishop has no legal authority outside of the Diocese of Canterbury. He serves as spiritual leader and symbol of unity.

The laity have real power at all levels of the Anglican churches (though with local variations). Anglicans look to their diocesan and national synods of bishops, clergy and laity to interpret matters of faith and order. Unlike the Church of Rome, with its admirable clarity of decision-making, the Anglican churches are messy and often disagree with each other.

For instance, some churches ordain women to all three orders of ministry. Many do not at all, and the Church of England ordains women to the diaconate and the priesthood, but not the episcopate at this time of writing. Women bishops were present at the 1998 Lambeth Conference, the worldwide gathering of Anglican bishops every ten years. But since the decisions of Lambeth have no authority other than as recommendations, their presence was not disruptive.

This 'messiness' means that Anglicans have greater latitude officially than Roman Catholics do both individually and in their dioceses and national churches. In general, the laity are expected to use the resources of the church, especially regular common worship, in developing a Christ-like character, and ability to reason morally. The different emphases present in Christianity find their adherents among Anglicans. Thus some Anglicans have elaborate liturgies modeled on medieval English worship. Others emphasize evangelistic preaching and relatively simple worship. Still others show the influence of the Pentecostal movement, or the iconography of the Eastern churches. Some Anglicans are mystic; others are intensely concerned with social justice. Moreover, each national church adapts the faith and order to its own culture.

Since Roman Catholics tie membership in their church to the person and authority of the pope, they do not ordinarily allow intercommunion. They do not recognize the validity of Anglican Orders, and so re-confirm and re-ordain Anglican converts. Anglicans on the other hand tend to practice open communion, and do not re-confirm or re-ordain Roman Catholic converts, because they recognize Roman Orders as valid. The difference is being in communion with the pope for Roman Catholics, and for Anglicans, it is adhering to the catholic faith as it has been inherited from the earliest Christians. One permanent feature of Anglicanism has been seeking to restore the faith and order of the primitive church. This is the principle of its reformation, while Rome's counter-reformation was to restore and enhance the medieval concept of papal authority.

In the most recent document of the Anglican-Roman Catholic International Consultation (the ecumenical body devoted to helping the two churches come closer), entitled The Gift of Authority, Anglicans are asked to consider the role of the Bishop of Rome in the life of their churches, while Roman Catholics are asked to begin to take seriously the collegiality of synods called for in Vatican II. Perhaps this too emphasizes in a nutshell the differences between these two churches, both branches of the early church, so close and yet so far..."

Source: Anglicans Online Essays | Pierre Whalon | Differences between Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism

I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

Ray

Maybe it's why I sensed Harold and Hannah had a little bond whenever it came to faith? Their respective religions were very similar.

Taryn74 · 09-16-2009, 02:11 PM

Very interesting stuff, Wilpen. Thanks for that. I was thinking that Episcopalians were pretty similar to Catholics in their form of worship, but then as I thought about it I realized I wasn't really sure why I thought that, so I wanted to be on the safe side and not act like I knew what I was talking about when I probably didn't LOL.

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I wonder why they chose that denomination specifically? It's one of the more socially liberal (though not quite as much as some of the others) and doesn't offer anything in the way of an explanation for Hannah's particular beliefs (not that a denomination's official stances = individual worshiper's beliefs; I disagree with the Evangelical Lutheran church on a number of things) and, at least a couple of decades ago, only makes up about 2% of the Minnesota population. Though I must admit that the writing for Hannah as a religious character often confused me...

I kind of wondered the same things, Thief. I guess truth be known it's probably kind of like Mrs. Kim on GG being 7th Day Adventist, they just chose something that sounded "strict" but didn't really bother to follow through with learning much about it.

As for Hannah's stance on abstinence and abortion, I figure those were more personal convictions rather than following her church's "rules". I cover my head for worship and personal Bible study, but it's not something my church really teaches at all. It's just my thing.

I can see Hannah being the same way.

everwoodfan52 · 09-16-2009, 02:46 PM

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Very interesting stuff, Wilpen. Thanks for that. I was thinking that Episcopalians were pretty similar to Catholics in their form of worship, but then as I thought about it I realized I wasn't really sure why I thought that, so I wanted to be on the safe side and not act like I knew what I was talking about when I probably didn't LOL.

I am a Catholic....but have attended a mass in an Episcopal church (wedding). The mass is exactly like the mass in the Catholic church. The only difference is no belief in the Pope....thanks to Henry VIII.

Thief Of Love · 09-16-2009, 04:43 PM

English Reformation and post-Reformation history is a pretty fascinating subject. Essentially, it never works for anyone, heh. First the true Protestants interested in the reforms of Luther and Calvin get the break with Rome, but not with its non-papal teachings, so they lose out there, but the monasteries are completely ravaged and true Catholics persecuted; then the Protestant persecution; then back to the Catholics but to a less severe degree (but with a pretty extensive secret underground)...and then Puritanism enters the picture and all hell breaks loose, heh.

Sorry. Anglophile and historical-theology-lover tangent.

Ah, um, so I do agree with you, Taryn, on Hannah's beliefs being based on her own convictions; I have the same tendencies myself. You're also probably right on the writers just going with a denomination that sounded good to them, but also wasn't on the opposite end of the spectrum in being considered too conservative.

Here's something that bothered me about her writing, however: there was something of an inconsistency in how much she actually knew of her own beliefs. When she tells Amy her feelings on premarital sex, she attributes them to a [quite sensible] personal position, but also agrees in part when Amy asks if its related to her religious values. That's all great. But later we get "Fallout," when she decides that she owes God for preserving her from Huntington's, and proceeds to spend all of her time at church. Now, in theory, this could be sort of cute and a demonstration both of survivor's guilt and of Hannah's fears of fully embracing what she can now expect to be a long and healthy life, which is what the story's supposed to be. But the problem is that I'm far too distracted by lines like these:

"I'm just a little frustrated with God right now. I mean, He talks to Joan of Arcadia like five times a week, tells her to go out for cheerleading. My problem is way bigger and I can't even get His attention."

"Well, I'm sorry, but it just seems pretty logical that if you wanna talk to God, you go to church. I mean that's where He works, right?"

I get what the writers are attempting here, but all I can think about is the fact that a Hannah who has any religious sensibility whatsoever should have a little more understanding of God than to be unaware of the concept of omnipresence. I mean, that second quote implies a Hannah who's never even been acquainted with the concept of prayer aside from what takes place during a church service, which is really absurd.

There's more to say about Hannah's writing as a religious character, but we can address the remark on Reid's suicide attempt later.

'Tos · 09-18-2009, 03:32 PM

This thread rocks. And I'm learning, hee. I don't know a thing about the differences between denominations and such, so this has been a good read.

I'd like to hear what others thought about the writing of some of Hannah's understanding of her own beliefs. I've already said my piece on this, but I think the writers were attempting to contrast Hannah and Harold. Hannah still exploring her belief system as a younger person versus Harold's fully grown belief system as essentially a fully formed adult. Still, I'm not sure that that attempt to contrast them can really excuse some of her childlike thinking about some of the issues. Not knowing basic things like omnipresence is bizarre from a character like Hannah. These moments are a little lighter as well, and that's what Hannah was used for a lot (the light moments), but again, I'm not sure if that excuses how silly those two quotes are. Even if those quotes are mainly for comedic effect, it's not like Hannah herself said them to be funny. She meant what she said.

everwoodfan52 · 09-20-2009, 08:54 AM

I don't think that Hannah thought that God only existed in Church....I just think it was the writers trying to be funny and clever.
Perhaps Hannah just thought that even though God is everywhere...maybe his essence is stronger in church? Hannah would have more props there...statues to talk to....places to kneel....candles to light.That's always more helpful when you pray.

I'm trying to figure out if the fact that Hannah's family (in Minnesota) had no TV had any religious significance.

Thief Of Love · 09-20-2009, 12:34 PM

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I'm trying to figure out if the fact that Hannah's family (in Minnesota) had no TV had any religious significance.

Probably only in the eyes of the guy who wrote "So Long, Farewell," if it had any at all. The only people I've known who've been so particularly anti-TV have fallen into two groups: some fundamentalists and college professors. If Hannah's family was supposed to be Episcopalian, and she herself seemed relatively confused -- at least in S3 -- about re-establishing some long-neglected relationship with God, then chances are the family didn't object to it on religious/moral grounds. Though I think all the writers really wanted to show was "Har har har! Hannah's a big hick! That's why her wardrobe's so awful!", I'd almost lean towards the anti-TV-on-intellectual-grounds theory based on slightly more evidence than we have for the religious angle: her father was a rare book restorer who heavily encouraged Hannah's interest in reading and writing, and the possibility of buying a TV arose only after his death. So maybe he just objected to having a medium that he looked down upon in their house.

everwoodfan52 · 09-20-2009, 01:53 PM

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So maybe he just objected to having a medium that he looked down upon in their house.

Yes, that's probably true. Many parents feel that television does take away from family time (conversations), reading, exercising, etc.
If you have ever looked at young kids who are sitting and watching TV...the expression on their faces is priceless. Tongues are usually slightly hanging out...face is blank with absolutely no semblance of intelligence. Not a pretty sight.

I guess Hannah's parents thought that she looked a lot better while reading books and writing.

Taryn74 · 09-20-2009, 03:28 PM

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I guess Hannah's parents thought that she looked a lot better while reading books and writing.

Tee hee.

We haven't had cable or satellite service in about a year and a half now, but we still have TV's in the house. We live in a hilly area so antennaes don't pick anything up either. We just depend on DVDs we own and Netflix to have something to watch. It wasn't really a religious/moral decision for us, we just got sick and tired of the TV blaring All. Day. Long. with nobody really watching it. There's only so much spongebob you can listen to before it starts to drive you a little nutty. Now the kids (and we) have to decide if something is worth watching, and if so put the DVD in, instead of just flipping channels to have some noise.

The only downside now is when we go to visit my husband's sister and the kids running around yelling over the TV which is always turned up way too loud gives me a headache.

I wait until the kids run out of the room and turn it down a couple of notches each time. They never notice. *grin*

everwoodfan52 · 09-20-2009, 09:06 PM

Taryn, I think that the older we get....the more intolerable noise becomes.

Taryn74 · 09-21-2009, 01:33 PM

Eh, sonny? What was that you said? Speak up!

'Tos · 09-26-2009, 11:54 PM

What impact would Nina and Sam coming into the Brown household have on the characters from a spiritual point of view? We don't know ANYTHING about Nina's beliefs, so it's likely that she would be just like Andy as a parent when it comes to religion. BUT, what about Andy and Delia's affect on Nina and Sam? They're going to be much more involved in talking about and seeing Delia's practice her faith. And Julia is going to have some presence in that house (not a literal one, because that would be a completely different show, heh). Plus, what if the grandparents come back? Sam's going to be getting a look at a whole new religion in that house.

everwoodfan52 · 09-27-2009, 06:21 AM

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Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post)

What impact would Nina and Sam coming into the Brown household have on the characters from a spiritual point of view? We don't know ANYTHING about Nina's beliefs, so it's likely that she would be just like Andy as a parent when it comes to religion. BUT, what about Andy and Delia's affect on Nina and Sam? They're going to be much more involved in talking about and seeing Delia's practice her faith. And Julia is going to have some presence in that house (not a literal one, because that would be a completely different show, heh). Plus, what if the grandparents come back? Sam's going to be getting a look at a whole new religion in that house.

I honestly believe that Nina and Sam actively practiced their religion and I believe they are Protestants. My guess is that Nina's influence and the fact that Andy will want to please her will see him attending church regularly with Nina and Sam. He'll want to be part of a good nurturing family....something that he never did with his first family.
I'm not sure how Delia is going to practice her faith (as far as services each week) Remember....Pilot episode..."Where's the synagogue?"
Andy and Nina will probably add touches to their home during the Jewish holidays (like a Menorah during Hannukah) out of respect for Delia and Julia. I think that Delia will attend Church with Nina, Andy and Sam each week as part of the family unit.

'Tos · 10-03-2009, 09:46 PM

Interesting speculation, Betty. I wish that we had seen more about Nina and religion, just to get an idea on what she believes. She has pretty much lived her whole life in that town, so you would have to think that she would have to have some interaction with religion. Even if it's just going to the Hope ceremony annually. I could definitely see her being a Protestant, though.

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He'll want to be part of a good nurturing family....something that he never did with his first family.

Great point. I wonder how much Julia got involved with her kids from a religion standpoint? Probably quite a bit if Delia and her connection to Julia by religion is any basis.

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I'm not sure how Delia is going to practice her faith (as far as services each week) Remember....Pilot episode..."Where's the synagogue?"

Maybe Andy will use some of his vast amounts of wealth to buy her a synagogue in town?

Thief Of Love · 12-12-2009, 12:19 AM

Prompted by this being the first night of Hanukkah and all:

I am quite possibly blocking out some reference or other to this over the course of the series, but: did Ephram and Delia celebrate the Jewish holidays with Julia? I mean, the actual Holy Days? If this never came up (which it may well not have), do you think they would have, considering how big certain days like Yom Kippur are even for more liberal branches of the faith? And if they did, how do you think the loss of that tradition may have affected their feelings about the loss of Julia and home and relocation to a fairly foreign environment?

I'm sort of thinking that they weren't big practitioners, though, because if they were, then that really should have come up at some point and, also, Delia may not have needed a priest to suggest to her that she have a bat mitzvah, heh. And even if Julia did try to encourage their religious upbringing, I could see Ephram not having any of it after his bar mitzvah, sort of along the lines of the tendency in Protestant (and quite possibly Catholic, but I don't know firsthand as far as that's concerned) churches for teens to kind of disappear once they've been confirmed. (Not that bar/bat mitzvah and confirmation are remotely the same thing, but if you boil it down to "big ritual that occurs when one is a young adolescent, that signifies one's entry into the specific community's adult world, and that necessitates a significant amount of religious education and preparation beforehand").

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