everwoodfan52

Seriously? You almost gave up on the show completely?


I hated the pregnancy as well. In fact, I don't think that anyone was in favor of that development. The thing is, something had to prevent Ephram from auditioning. He couldn't go to Julliard...then he'd have to move and then, where would that leave him and Amy. He couldn't stay all happy with Andy.....where would they go from there? He couldn't audition for Julliard and be rejected....none of the fans would accept that.
So....what other ideas do any of you have? What could have prevented Ephram from auditioning if Madison was not pregnant?

Thief Of Love

Oh, the Madison pregnancy. Whee!

I didn't fault Madison for turning to Andy; she was stunned, scared, distant from her family, Andy was a nice, fatherly kind of guy. I was, however, completely opposed to Andy's decision to keep Ephram in the dark. My thinking then was exactly the same as it is now: if he was old enough to have sex with her, then he was old enough to know the consequences of that action. Andy may have wanted to preserve Ephram's 'innocence' for a little while longer, but there wasn't a whole lot of innocence there to preserve. Andy's decision here, as far as I'm concerned, was the first step on the road to his S3 a$$hattery.

But, yeah, would have been better not to have taken the pregnancy route at all. It frightens me that rumors cropped up about Madison's S5 return having something to do with the baby. Because...why? Why? The kid has parents, it was a closed adoption, why in heaven's name would you go back to that well? Of course, the pregnancy was Berlanti's idea and S5 was going to be his work as well, so...make of that what you will.

I agree with your point that Ephram and Andy needed the conflict and that Ephram needed a reason not to attend Juilliard, but it's amazing what a bizarrely complicated path the writers took to get Ephram to that point, heh. Seriously, there had to have been better, less character-damaging story possibilities, not that I can think of any at this moment. (I'll give it some thought, though, because it's a great question.)

'Tos

I actually agree with you that a lot of the facets of the story do make sense, shadow. I think for an idea that I will never, ever like, it was actually executed about as well as it was ever going to be executed. That they had to execute it at all, of course...hee.

And I also agree with the, "if he's old enough to have sex..he's old enough to know the consequences..." idea, Thief. It's tough, though because, he looks so happy with Amy, hee. I like that execution as well, actually, that as wrong and horrible as Andy's choice is, when you see that smile in the airplane, you root for the decision. Even just for a second.

Definitely. Thank goodness for Hannah, hee. See, this is why I like the character so much beyond all the obvious reasons (relating to her so much, cute, great dialogue, great actress and lots more): she kept me watching Everwood.

Agreed, great question. I'd love to know, although it's going to make me want to actually see it, heh. It's difficult, because I think it has to be something that actually does create some distance between Andy and Ephram, and causes enough of a rift--even maybe Ephram leaving--for them to find themselves again in S4, because I wouldn't want anything in S4 between them to change for a second. My anger during the "I'm late" scene in "The Day is Done" is almost worth it for all that we get between them. Almost, heh.

'Tos

Bumping. Not because I think I said anything all that profound, but I like the question Betty asked (as hard as it is to answer, but I hope someone does try someday, because I have no answers, but I'm hoping that Madison being pregnant isn't the only answer). Plus Madison baby drama is always a topic that gets people riled up, so I figured I'd try to rile up anyone else that wants to give it a go.

courtneybangelcakes

I am too lazy to read through all the thoughts Too many different opinions.

Basically, I knew this would happen - I knew Madison would become pregnant. And that's awful, and heartbreaking for the characters. And Andy's choice, it IS understandable but I can't even believe it. If I was Madison, I wouldn't give a ratsass what he said, honestly. Like, of course he is Ephram's father but who is pregnant? ME! I am going to be the one that would have to deal with this every single day. And Madison knows that Ephram would want to know and he will eventually know ...how he could he never find out? Which I am guessing he does later on. It's just horrible.

everwoodfan52

We definitely get carried away with our feelings.

You know, you're absolutely right! What was the matter with Madison? She was pregnant....Andy told her to go away and she sheepishly listened! Honestly, Madison should have politely told Andy, "Thank you very much. I'll think about what you said," and then she should have told Ephram anyway.
Of course, that would have prevented Ephram from attending the Julliard summer program, prevented Amy from going to NY with Ephram and seeing "Avenue Q", prevented the big fight with Andy, etc, etc, etc.
I wonder how the show would have evolved if Madison had defied Andy?
Thoughts?

Thief Of Love

You know, that is a really good and key question -- because as angry as I was that Ephram was being left in the dark about something that very much concerned him, I think I honestly would have been more unhappy with the alternative.

If Madison defied Andy and told Ephram about the pregnancy -- and in my scenario, let's say that she waits until after the summer program, just for the sake of simplifying the "What Ifs?" a bit -- Ephram would have become involved. He would have been very much involved, because that's who he is, and his storyline would thus have become All About Ephram and Madison's Pregnancy. We'd get angst over what to do with the baby; he'd probably eventually come to the adoption conclusion as well, but not without plenty of angst beforehand. Madison might still decide to leave town, which would throw additional angst in the mix. His relationship with Amy would be severely strained by all this, and eventually conclude much as it did anyway in S3. His relationship with Andy would be preserved a bit (the worst he could learn is that Andy didn't want him to know, which would be considerably less upsetting under these circumstances than it was when he learned it long after the fact), but we'd surely get some fight somewhere down the line related to whatever potentially irresponsible decision Ephram makes or thinks of making related to the baby. Hey, maybe he still decides not to bother with the Juilliard audition, because...Madison's unexpectedly left town, or the adoption decision was a last-minute change of plans, or because he needs the money for diapers.

In other words, there is a whole world of bad inherent in a scenario in which Ephram is aware of the pregnancy. I can't believe I'm now grateful to Andy and Madison for this.

'Tos

Great question, Betty. I definitely agree with Thief's thoughts on Andy and Ephram and..just how bad it would be. Madison would become a bigger character which makes me squirm (heh), Ephram/Madison making decisions over the baby would probably take up most of S3 and..yeah, it's already been covered. Just a lot of bad all over.

Other than Ephram and Andy and Madison, Amy would have to go in a whole new direction. She wouldn't have that level of normalcy she has for the large chunk of S3 with Ephram. There's probably no relationship to speak of because he's either dealing with Madison or stressing over whatever decision he makes. So, everything that Amy does in S3 essentially goes away. Harold's early-S3 story would be hugely affected as well, because he's mostly worried about super sperm deflowering his daughter before Rose's cancer story. And since Andy is so caught up in the Madison/Ephram story as I think he would (putting his opinion in, dealing with all the angst), him and Harold's dealings wouldn't be as common. Even Hannah and Bright would be different. Hannah, at least for her first few episodes, is at least interested in Ephram and Amy's relationship. I guess not much would change for her, if Amy didn't get obsessed over what was going on with Ephram and Madison..which she totally would. And Bright would also at least be somewhat affected by having his best friend being a teenage father. Might make him think twice about his early-S3 exploits, actually, hee.

Really, the only thing that can remain relatively untouched is Jake and Nina. Even Delia would be affected knowing that her brother has a baby on the way, I would think. Which might mean no "DAD!" reaction to her having her period! See?? That's just bad all over. We need that scene!

break the window

I so wanted a different revelation. I wanted Ephram to have a choice. It was so clear that he deserved one when he traveled to Denver to try and locate his son. He didn't want to take him, he just wanted to meet him. And that nurse could see that. Ephram never got a chance.

And it caused such a rift with first Madison because he thought she got pregnant and left Everwood. But it was really Andy who took control of the situation and finally when everything was good with Ephram and Andy this happens and it changes everything.

'Tos

I think the idea of a different revelation is something we've all discussed but all had trouble with. What else will drive them apart so so so harshly, and then create their S4 relationship? I'm definitely interested in what you think after you watch S4, to see what other kind of revelation may have worked. It's really tough!

break the window

I just had this idea.

I'm thinking that maybe Ephram would have decided that the child's best interest was to be with a family that would raise him, and be there for him in ways that Madison and Ephram could not. But have an open adoption. Ephram would get updates here and there.

I mean, imagine Ephram getting the mail, so excited to show Andy the newest picture of his son! It would change everything completely.

Ephram never said he wanted the baby, he just wanted to get to know him, and maybe one day, eighteen years in the future, the child...if he wants...can find Ephram and they can finally meet...father and son.

That's my take on it

everwoodfan52

I like your idea, Patricia...letting Ephram have the choice of putting the baby up for adoption. But...we still have the problem of why Andy and Ephram would have conflict and what would happen at the Julliard audition..would Ephram make it and have to leave Amy to attend Julliard? or will Ephram be rejected (heaven forbid)!

break the window

oh that's...easy

you can still put the scene of madison going to Andy for advice on her situation. But instead of Ephram losing total contact with Madison, he can get curiosity up and decide to visit her at school. The school says she dropped out, then Ephram starts being Ephram and starts a hunt to find Madison. Then putting clues togehter, he finds out the truth...before the baby is born.

everwoodfan52

But...what about his Julliard audition? Does he keep it? Does he get accepted? Does he attend?

break the window

now that's tricky. Becuase Ephram always lets his emotions decide what he should do. And I'm thinking by the time the Julliard audition would come around, he'd be okay with everything, hoping really. But Ephram doesn't let things go as easily as Andy does or anyone else does. But I'm thinking he would take it.