cowgirl08

lol yeah ofcourse i think the writer swould have ephram kinda do somehtingjust to drag the relationship out more ya know they cant have ephram/amy together right away then it wouldnt be as good ya know? But yeah I dont think he would go with madison hima nd amy were just meant for each other from the beginning madison unfortunately missed out.

jediwands

Perfectly stated. I couldn't agree more. It feels like both, it truly does. And yeah, 3 years this November whenever we first met, 2 years this January when we became official. And thanks.

Yes, please finish it, dude. Man I totally remember this. You talked about it, I thought it was totally awesome, we also discussed Hanson, and of course probably Angela and I'm sure Chris as well, remember? Those were the days which leads me to...

Yeah you're right about that. I'll get on within the next day or so and we'll talk. Can't wait.

You're absolutely right. Madison showed in many ways that she was about as mature (maybe even less) as Ephram even if she tried pulling off the fact that she was more mature because of her age. In all actuality it was Ephram who probably surpassed Madison in maturity whenever their relationship concluded.

Very true.

Hey Betty, I was wondering what your thoughts are on Madisongate as a whole? How did you feel whenever Madison's pregnancy was exposed and throughout this entire nightmare, er, entire ordeal? LOL.

Oh and I agree about no angst on Ephram's part, maybe on Madison's should they have had a storyline together in season 5. I think Ephram proved how over her he truly was in NYC before the baby revelation even took place. The comfortable hug, Ephram happy to see her but without any romantic tension whatsoever, Ephram telling Amy about seeing her like it was no big deal in the least. You saw this plain as day.

everwoodfan52

I hated every minute of it....from the time that Madison told Andy until the moment in Carnegie Hall when Ephram decided not to audition.
I was so happy season 2 when Ephram got into the Julliard summer program and Amy was liking him and life was really good for Ephram.
I didn't want anything to spoil all of this (although I realize that drama has to have some snags to make it more interesting). I, however, am very cheesy and would be just as content if everything was always wonderful for all of my favorite characters!
I really hate to admit this, but I was kind of glad that Andy did not tell Ephram about Madison's pregnancy. I didn't want anything to keep him from Amy or his Summer program. I did realize, however, that this was going to come out and lead to disaster in the future. It had to.
When Ephram saw Madison in front of Lincoln Center, I was really upset. I realized what would end up happening and I (and every other Everwood fan ) didn't want it to.
When Andy told Madison to tell him everything.....I was furious. Couldn't Andy have told Madison to wait until after the audition? Why do all of the characters lose their common sense at times like this?!

At the coffee shop.....I was so glad the Madison did not at first tell Ephram about the baby...but of course, she did end of telling him.
I was relieved, though, that she didn't mention Andy's part in the whole thing.
Why oh why did Andy tell him?! I guess he had to, but I think that that info is what really broke Ephram.

What happened at the audition was the worst part of the entire Madisongate fiasco for me. Why didn't Ephram audition? I was screaming at the TV!! How was not auditioning going to help the situation? I realized that he really wanted to stick it to Andy......but who was hurt the most? Ephram.
I was heartbroken.
No, I did not enjoy Madisongate at all!!!

jediwands

Really? I can't tell.

Awesome post. To comment on a few great things:

I'm so down with your thoughts here. I felt the same way. My gut was cheering for Andy not to tell Ephram yet my mind was thinking, "But you have to, Andy!" yet in the end whenever he didn't weirdly I breathed a sigh of relief because all I cared about at this point was Ephram heading to NYC and Ephram/Amy finally having a chance at true happiness together. I thought about it, "In the moment" while also realizing that the time would eventually come that all would be told and sure it was going to be dramatic as hell. But I think the timing was wrong for Ephram to find out immediately. Poor Andy, though, because I loved and hated him at the same time for not telling him. In the end, though, I'm glad he wasn't told right away but while thinking clearly the honest thing to do would have been to tell him. I remember at the time thinking that ALL I wanted was for Ephram/Amy to be established and cemented romantically, THEN Ephram could find out since I knew nothing would break Ephram/Amy once they were together romantically. Oh, sure, I knew they would end up breaking apart once the bomb exploded, I knew that. But I also knew once they became romantic they were ending up together no matter what and would find themselves on the same road together again. So I thought it was important for them to get together when they did for their happy ending tag, thus why I was glad Ephram never found out right from the start. Because knowing Ephram he would have tried doing the noble thing, probably even attempt to deny his love for Amy in favor of becoming a "family" with Madison and their baby. Not that it would have ever worked out but still... I could have seen Ephram attempt this.

I thought it was a bit outlandish how in a city of how many million they would bump into each other like that? Kind of annoyed me but I guess the tag of "fate" and "destiny" can be safely inserted in here meaning that it was meant to be for Ephram to see her and find out about the baby, even shun the audition.

That bothered me tremendously as well. I couldn't believe Andy said that to her. I was utterly confused over why he wouldn't have told her to at least wait until after the audition. I didn't understand this. This was a hot topic at the time the episode aired, I totally remember this. Many who defended Andy said that he must have felt like he couldn't ask anymore of Madison, thus, why he never added in that request because he didn't want to seem like he was making another demand for her to follow. Eh, I don't really know if I buy that or not. All I know is it was entirely ridiculous for Madison to tell him before the audition. She could have very easily made their meeting take place AFTER the audition instead of before.

Exactly. It did hurt Ephram and only Ephram. However, I believe it was never in the cards for Ephram to attend Juilliard, I truly believe this since I'm into that meant to be type of stuff. I feel like if Ephram sincerely wanted it he would have found a way to make it happen, especially whenever amazing Amy found a way to get him a second audition and he STILL turned it down. But his denying the first audition was certainly about sticking it to Andy, trying to hurt him since he was so hurt.

Augusta

Wow, such great points and conversation flowing on this thread! I can't believe this thread wasn't around years ago

Agreed. The timing was all wrong from the very start. The BEST thing would have been for Madison to not have said anything to Andy, then he wouldn't have had to hold it back from Ephram Buuut since this is TV and nothing is ever easy, I would have to say Andy did what he thought was best at the time, acting purely as a parent trying to shield his child from something bad and painful.

Although, that said, I think Andy should have given Madison the test, when it came out positive, they should have brought Ephram into it. Andy could have been there for support for Ephram. I can see where their relationship could have been strengthened as a result of this. They could have decided TOGETHER to adopt or abort or to keep. I think if Ephram was involved in that huge decision making process from the beginning, and say they decided together to adopt, he would at least have had a say, and know what she knew, etc. Ephram has a big heart though, so I can't help but think/worry he would have wanted to keep it and try it again with Madison, for the sake of the baby. Which would have been bad for E/A. But maybe not. Maybe he would have seen that a baby at that point in BOTH Madison and Ephram's lives wouldn't have been the best decision for them AND the baby.

Exactly! I don't think I even really thought about the situation as it was, I was more concerned about Ephram and Amy getting together and Madison being the 'bad guy' keeping them apart Now that it's been a while since I saw the series and now that E/A have been deemed 'end game', I can look back and think, "Wow, that was a really bad situation, one that didn't have a clean cut solution."

Oh for sure. I can TOTALLY see Ephram trying to create a little family unit of his own, which we all know would not have worked out. And of coarse, sadly, Amy would have had to take a back seat to things. Again.

Yeah, I thought about that to. How ironic When I first saw that episode, and that moment, I honestly thought someone had told her that Ephram would be there. It just seemed so planned out. It wasn't like she was strolling along and heard the piano being played. It was like she knew he would be there. Weird. Although having been in a VERY similar situation (I know you know the whole dramatic, old story Michelle), I never expected to run into MY ex but I did. IT was so random and so shocking. Bleh. Anyways. Yeah, the overall stream of people around here can't even begin to compare to the NYC setting ( at the mere thought!) but I guess it's possible.

Word. That too bugged me the most about that episode. Did she not know Ephram at all? I get that she had to tell him. Wanted to. Needed to. Whatever. Once she heard about his audition, that was HER bad for not making the decision to tell him afterward. It's not like HE wronged her and she wanted to get back at him by telling him that. He had no idea. And given that HER life had taken such a weird turn than what she was planning/expecting, you'd think she would know better than to throw that curve ball at that particular time. When they were sitting at that coffee shop and the moment he mentioned his audition, I would have chatted a few more minutes, made up that I had somewhere to be and set up a time after his audition they could get together again. "To say goodbye" or "to see how you did on your auditions" whatever. She should have known better. I get she needed to get it out, truuuusttt meeee BUT when something like that comes up, idk, if she really cared about him she would have waited to tell him. She waited that long to tell him, what was a few more hours.

As far as Andy and not having asked, I sort of buy that. At that point, everything was falling down around him, he knew the truth would come out, I imagine he felt powerless. And I'm sure he felt like it was his fault so yeah, not wanting to ask "more" of her.... I can see that being why. BUT he was also a parent, you'd think he would have thrown that in. There was no promise she would have done so, but at least the idea was there in her mind, at least it was out in the open.

Which is so funny you say that because from the first episode, it was set up that he was going to go there. I don't know if I believe he was supposed to and was going to go there or not. I just know that kid had some fantastic talent. But I think Ephram has too much rebellion in him to have gone through life playing Mozart and Beethoven


Eh, I think at the time not having control of his life was the only thing on his mind. I think the only thing Ephram was set on doing at that time was lashing out at the people who "betrayed" him and trying to prove he had control of his life again. Man, when you suddenly realize you don't have control of your life and people you trust with your everything suddenly betrays you or are unable to help you, you are really thrown through a huge loop. Your everything is spinning and you just want to grab a hold of something, something familiar and that is yours. I totally think when Ephram didn't go to his auditions, it was his punishment for Andy, for "betraying" him. I also think it was something he was able to be totally in control of and he decided to go against what was planned. I truly think it was equally him trying to hurt Andy and try and regain control of his life. To prove HE was the one who controlled things in his life.


Again, GREAT responses. I'm really impressed with the thoughts and opinions that are still in everyone's minds years later

Augusta

Where'd everyone go??

everwoodfan52

That's a good question!!
And where have you been?!?

Augusta

*hides in shame* I know, I know! I've been M.I.A for... FOREVER! I'm trying! I think my biggest problem is that I have a memory... issue and it's been so long since I've seen the episodes that I feel I can't really converse on the threads since I can hardly remember half of the things on the show

How ya been anyhow?

I mostly wanted to drop off this fic, I mentioned it to Michelle before she and Alex stepped down. It's a fic about the baby storyline I created to help myself cope with it, mostly I abandoned it for the longest time, but I've made it my goal to finish the 4 fics I've left hanging over on FF.net, this being one of them. Anyways, here is the fic, I hope whoever decides to read it will enjoy it. I know it's been a lot of fun writing it (the first time around) then going back and re-reading it after a few years had passed and continuing on with it!

Past Decisions, Future Uncertainties »
Different spin on the Madisonbaby storyline. What if Andy was left in the dark as well about the pregnancy? What if Madison simply left town? The one day, Ephram finds the surprise of his life on the front porch. bad at summaries, read to find out.

everwoodfan52

I've been great.....enjoying being a mod.....trying my best to step into the shoes if Michelle and Alex.

I see that you've changed your name. Congratulations on also being a new mod!


Thanks so much for this! I, and I'm sure many others, can't wait to read this. It looks like you really put a lot of work into it!
I hope that Michelle is checking up on us so that she sees this.

Augusta

Yes, congrats on being a mod I bet those were some big shoes to fill! But I'm sure you and your co-mod will do fine.

Yes, as soon as I realized you could do that I was PMing with my request I had been Applebehrygrl23 for a looong time and I was growing tired of that screen name so I was really glad I was able to change it. And thanks! My first modding experience was on here, and it was a really great experience. I'm so glad I am able to do it again!

Oh yes, lots of time has gone into that fic. I'm still working on finishing it. 4 more chapters, tops, I think, and it'll be done I hope you enjoy it!


Me too

'Tos

Oh my, I completely didn't catch the name change and I was all "who is this Augusta and why does she know about the Thankful Book and all that'. Also a big congratulations on being a mod again!

Like Betty, I'm really looking forward to checking out the fanfic. With a premise like that, how could I not?

Augusta

AHA! I'm sorry for the confusion. I posted a thing on my board, giving people a heads up, but of coarse not everyone was able to see that. Yes yes, it's me, Applebehrygrl23

Excellent! I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it! I've been working on it some, I think it's almost done! Maybe 4 chapters, tops, left to go; if that. As few as 2.

'Tos

I just started it, but I'm really enjoying it so far. First of all, I think you've got a good rhythm on how Andy and Ephram, especially, talk. Second of all, I really liked the "DAD!!" when Ephram saw the baby, because it's totally what he did when he figured Delia was having her first period. So I'm imagining him saying it like that.

So far, so good. Like you wrote at the top, it's maybe not the way I'd want to see the story go (no baby drama is the only thing I actually wanted), but it's an interesting take on it and it'll definitely change the dynamic of the Brown household, and that's exciting.

'Tos

So, I've been going around talking about how much I've been enjoying S2, and how much better it's been than the first time around. For almost every asset of the season, I've gained a new appreciation for. That all hit a wall at "The Day is Done". I'm going to take back pretty much everything I've said in this thread and say that if there was ONE thing I would take away or take back from this show, it would be the decision to have Madison pregnant. It still stands as the most disappointing decision the writer's ever made, in my mind. I love how it all turns out, that Andy and Ephram rebond in the way that I always wanted to see them bond, and I don't know another way to get there, but it's still the thing I would change about this show if I had a chance. It goes against everything that Everwood was about. How unique it was from anything else on TV, how stories were supposed to be organic to the events that happened before, that it would be as far away from soap as much as possible. Madison being pregnant is unoriginal, inorganic, and soapy. And it hurts Andy's character so very much.

The fact that the show was able to redeem itself the way it did despite this decision is the real testament to why it's the show I still want to talk about every single day. Because it..it's not a good one. And I really don't think there will ever be a day where I think it is. Watching this episode is always going to make me mad about my own favourite show, even with Amy and Ephram's iconic moments, or some of Andy and Harold's best scenes. It's one moment, but it does ruin a lot for me. Including what should be an amazing season finale.

*sigh* I guess I had that coming, heh. This is why I didn't watch season two again until now: because I knew how it was going to end and how it would take me back to the same reaction I had the very first time when I almost gave up on the show completely.

ShadowMagist

Well, I still can't bring myself to fault Andy or Madison(Ephram too) in how things were handled. It doesn't matter if you're the most responsible or mature person in the world, when you find out something that big, sensible decision making is out of your control. I truly believe that in the time Madison spent with the Brown's, she came to think of Andy as someone she could trust. A lot of the discussions they had...Andy came off very father-like. Why he couldn't manage this level of eloquence on a consistent basis with Ephram is beyond me, but it's there and it's strong. Add to the fact that Andy is a doctor, in the small town of Everwood, I'd find it hard to believe that she wouldn't go to him first.

And his reasoning of not telling Ephram is so in character for him, to protect Ephram's innocence for just awhile longer. That just highlight's how much he cares for his son. Telling Madison to leave was obviously something he didn't come to easily and while it does seem soapy...there really isn't an out here. And maybe that fits in with the whole, "They shouldn't have made her pregnant in the first place!" commentary, from a story point, I understood it.

Side note: Did anyone else think of The Lion King when this went down? When Scar tells Simba to leave as he finds Mufasa dead...it just reminded of that scene. Maybe it's just me...